collapse

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Random Image

b&vdoubledigest134

b&vdoubledigest134

* Search


* Recent Topics

Archie vs Predator *spoiler thread* by Goldberg Fan
[Today at 12:31:06 AM]


What have you done today? by Archina
[Today at 12:05:41 AM]


Going Digital by heresjuggy
[Yesterday at 11:19:05 PM]


Archie in Shop 'Til You Drop by Chillableus
[Yesterday at 11:02:10 PM]


The "What Song Are You Listening To?" Topic by Archina
[Yesterday at 08:21:09 PM]


Where's Chilling Adventures of Sabrina #3? by Archina
[Yesterday at 08:10:08 PM]


Classic Archie going forward, what would you like to see? by PixyJunket
[Yesterday at 07:48:18 PM]


Jughead #1!! by CAPalace
[Yesterday at 05:30:54 PM]


Remember the My Cage comic strip? by dth1971
[Yesterday at 03:58:02 PM]


Favorite secondary character? by Archina
[Yesterday at 01:22:40 PM]

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • PixyJunket: Thanks!! I'll let my wife know, she was about to subscribe to B&V.
    Yesterday at 07:36:25 PM
  • spazaru: Yes they do, PixyJunket!  You can get some smokin' prices on digests that way.
    Yesterday at 07:31:25 PM
  • PixyJunket: Do the general coupon codes for ArchieComics.com work for Digest subscriptions?
    Yesterday at 07:20:23 PM
  • DeCarlo Rules: No, you're right... if you DON'T own those "Best of" collections, those two Jumbo digests are must-haves... great stories, but fair warning for those that did buy TBoAC... but my point is, something happened there to cause those hastily-thrown together REreprints that don't match the solicitation descriptions for those issues.
    Yesterday at 06:09:59 PM
  • PixyJunket: There's also the "trigger warning" at the front of the book, so I guess that means everything is unaltered too. Combine that with the source information and you have a wonderful format for Digests to compliment the New Riverdale stuff.
    Yesterday at 12:16:39 PM
  • BettyReggie: Later Pals & Gals
    Yesterday at 08:48:34 AM
  • DeCarlo Rules: @PixyJunket -- I wonder what's going on with these recent Jumbo digests. In the case of both Archie Jumbo Comics Digest #260 and B&V Jumbo Comics Digest #233, ALL of the contents are drawn from the BEST OF ARCHIE COMICS series paperback collections. No other content outside of that, and neither of those match the contents as originally solicited in advance.
    Yesterday at 07:30:56 AM
  • BettyReggie: I just got some new podcasts with Fiona Staples and Brian the guy who wrote Saga & The writer of Archie Vs. Predator. I will listen while I'm in bed.
    May 27, 2015, 09:14:00 PM
  • Archie Comics Collector: Yes! New Jughead #1 coming in October and very close to my birthday! I can't wait!
    May 27, 2015, 08:57:09 PM
  • BettyReggie: I'll see you all tomorrow
    May 27, 2015, 08:32:23 PM
  • BettyReggie: I guess since we able to see the reboot of Jughead maybe we see the new Betty & Veronica soon.
    May 27, 2015, 08:20:03 PM
  • PixyJunket: I found B&V Jumbo Digest 233 at Kroger today, I didn't think they were still at groecery stores. It has Cheryl Blossom's first appearance, unedited. It's HUGE and has stuff spanning from the 40's to now.
    May 27, 2015, 08:06:18 PM
  • Archina: Archie #636 is an amazing story and great art.
    May 27, 2015, 02:36:24 PM
  • JonInIowaCity: Welcome Archina! "Reversedale" remains one of my favorite Archie stories!
    May 27, 2015, 01:42:38 PM
  • Archina: O.K. I posted enough for my first day here. Hope to come back and have a few replies later.
    May 27, 2015, 01:39:42 PM
  • JonInIowaCity: Very cool "Jughead" article today on CRB: [link]
    May 27, 2015, 01:30:41 PM
  • BettyReggie: Later Pals & Gals
    May 27, 2015, 12:26:01 PM
  • BettyReggie: I'll be back later
    May 27, 2015, 09:13:52 AM
  • spazaru: Jeez ANOTHER spammer (Pacazamini).  What's up with this?
    May 27, 2015, 07:22:54 AM

Author Topic: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica  (Read 3421 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jdh417

Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« on: September 28, 2011, 09:53:54 PM »
http://adistantsoil.com/2011/09/27/m-unpublished-betty-and-veronica-art-for-archie-comics/

These sketches look pretty sweet. 

It's hard to argue with Archie Comics success over the decades, but I can't help but think that opening up the characters to other artists' interpretation would only add to the franchise.  (The New Look doesn't count.  That was still way too controlled by editorial decisions.)  After all, there have been several versions of Sabrina on TV and I don't think that's hurt her popularity.  (Okay, not a great analogy.  That's all I got right now.)

Offline B-ko Daitokuji

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 11:00:43 PM »
I'll be honest.  I really don't like them. 

I'm open minded about Archie using different art styles, but the key I think here is keeping the two basic variables behind the success of Archie's house style:  cartoony + sexy.  From Motnata to DeCarlo to now, that's what it boils down to imo.

As such, those sketches don't meet the sniff test.  That's also why the "dynamic new look" series was so bad.  These sketches could be used for something else though, like some unrelated romance series or something.

I also don't really like her tweaks to the characters either.  Veronica looks more like Bettie Page and the dog draws unwanted comparisons to Paris Hilton.  Betty's outfit and hair isn't really doing much for me either.  Big fan of tomboys here, but I don't know if that particular look really works as a cute tomoby look.

And didn't really mean to rip into these so hard, but I have trouble keeping my comments brief as usual.  XD

Offline Tuxedo Mark

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 11:26:14 PM »
I love the New Look art styles (well, some of them; I hated the "Matchmakers" version and didn't care for the "My Father's Betrayal" version), and I love these sketches!




Betty Cooper + Cheryl Blossom. It's inevitable.

Offline jdh417

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 04:26:48 PM »
There's the risk of trying out new art styles on the characters: some people like them, some people don't. 

However, having an editorial mandate for the art style is going to scare away a lot of good artists.  And, you never know when somebody's alternate take on the characters might become a big hit.

Offline B-ko Daitokuji

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 05:26:51 PM »
There's the risk of trying out new art styles on the characters: some people like them, some people don't. 

However, having an editorial mandate for the art style is going to scare away a lot of good artists.  And, you never know when somebody's alternate take on the characters might become a big hit.

I think the real risk is that a lot of artists are going to assume that making it more "realistic" is the way to go, because it's an obvious contrast and they want to be more original or something.  However, realistic isn't really Archie Comics.  It takes away a good part of the allure, which imo is an escapist fantasy. 

I remember reading "No Baseball for Betty," a new dynamic look series, and being extremely bored.  Part of it I think it was pretty much impossible for them to do goofy visual jokes and all that in that art style, so they really didn't try much.  Instead, it was a rather straight forward drama on the extremely mundane and un-racy topic of gender equality in sports.  Maybe that story would have been more interesting with the other stuff there to supplement it, but as is, I don't think it worked.

So if you take out the over the top goofy comedy aspect of characters acting egomaniacal, chasing the opposite sex, getting fed up with each other in exaggerated ways, and other funny stuff, which intrinsically is drawn from the exaggerated cartoony art style, what are you left with?  A g-rated drama that will go no where with a boy that would rather play the whole field than choose between two girls?  People will get bored of that very quickly I think, at least in the context of how and where most of the stories usually take place in the world of Riverdale.

Offline Bluto

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 07:30:18 AM »
I agree with Ghidra!

Offline Tuxedo Mark

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2011, 11:31:44 PM »
I remember reading "No Baseball for Betty," a new dynamic look series, and being extremely bored.  Part of it I think it was pretty much impossible for them to do goofy visual jokes and all that in that art style, so they really didn't try much.  Instead, it was a rather straight forward drama on the extremely mundane and un-racy topic of gender equality in sports.  Maybe that story would have been more interesting with the other stuff there to supplement it, but as is, I don't think it worked.

I think it worked. Heck, "Betty Cooper, Baseball Star" was the first "Riverdale High" novel that I read, and I loved it. Seeing it adapted as a comic with a more realistic art style was a real treat.

So if you take out the over the top goofy comedy aspect of characters acting egomaniacal, chasing the opposite sex, getting fed up with each other in exaggerated ways, and other funny stuff, which intrinsically is drawn from the exaggerated cartoony art style, what are you left with?  A g-rated drama that will go no where with a boy that would rather play the whole field than choose between two girls?  People will get bored of that very quickly I think, at least in the context of how and where most of the stories usually take place in the world of Riverdale.

The thing is I often read Archie stories that contain "over the top goofy comedy aspect of characters acting egomaniacal, chasing the opposite sex, getting fed up with each other in exaggerated ways", and I just roll my eyes whenever I come across it and think "Oh, here we go again." THAT kind of stuff bores me quickly - and sometimes angers me to the point that I want to scream at the characters.




Betty Cooper + Cheryl Blossom. It's inevitable.

Offline B-ko Daitokuji

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2011, 12:00:47 AM »
Quote
I think it worked. Heck, "Betty Cooper, Baseball Star" was the first "Riverdale High" novel that I read, and I loved it. Seeing it adapted as a comic with a more realistic art style was a real treat.

Not saying this plot was an automatic fail.  I just think they material was approached too dryly.  There was also a lot of baseball related exposition I think, but the art style definitely contributed to the "chore to read" factor for me.

Quote
The thing is I often read Archie stories that contain "over the top goofy comedy aspect of characters acting egomaniacal, chasing the opposite sex, getting fed up with each other in exaggerated ways", and I just roll my eyes whenever I come across it and think "Oh, here we go again." THAT kind of stuff bores me quickly - and sometimes angers me to the point that I want to scream at the characters.

Depends on how its executed.  I find them amusing when they work.  Some Archie comedy misses the mark, but when it's good, it's good.  I also think the characters being detestable is part of what makes it entertaining.  If they're detestable in a realistic setting then that's not going to work as well I think.  It has to be played up for comedy.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 01:06:10 AM by Ghidra »

Offline RiverPhoenixDale

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2011, 01:02:23 AM »
I never, ever like it when Archie attempts drama.  Good drama for me is The Wire or Friday Night Lights, not "Pop Tate might lose the Chok'lit Shoppe unless the kids pitch in and help him."

Archie can never push their drama far enough to interest me.  But a funny story will always be a funny story.

Offline Captain Hero

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 01:15:56 PM »
I never, ever like it when Archie attempts drama.  Good drama for me is The Wire or Friday Night Lights, not "Pop Tate might lose the Chok'lit Shoppe unless the kids pitch in and help him."

Archie can never push their drama far enough to interest me.  But a funny story will always be a funny story.

I can see what you're saying about too much drama in Archie comics being a bad thing, but I think that it could work if there was an equal balance of drama with comedy.  I know when I posted a fan fic here a few months ago, I tried to do this, and one example that I can come up with that blends comedy with drama was the House Of Riverdale story that they came up with for Halloween '95.  Stories like that are much better.

(Of course, this is someone who admittedly loved the retro '70s Life With Archie stories too.)  ;)
DIGESTS: 2319

COMICS:  2019

TOTAL:  4338




http://popcultureaddictlifeguide.blogspot.com/

Offline B-ko Daitokuji

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 03:10:29 AM »
I never, ever like it when Archie attempts drama.  Good drama for me is The Wire or Friday Night Lights, not "Pop Tate might lose the Chok'lit Shoppe unless the kids pitch in and help him."

Archie can never push their drama far enough to interest me.  But a funny story will always be a funny story.

I can see what you're saying about too much drama in Archie comics being a bad thing, but I think that it could work if there was an equal balance of drama with comedy.  I know when I posted a fan fic here a few months ago, I tried to do this, and one example that I can come up with that blends comedy with drama was the House Of Riverdale story that they came up with for Halloween '95.  Stories like that are much better.

(Of course, this is someone who admittedly loved the retro '70s Life With Archie stories too.)  ;)

They can do drama wihtout comedy, maybe, but I think there's a few things:

1.  It needs an Archie-esque art style.  The art style is part of building the fantasy.  Comics, cartoons, etc. are not about "suspending disbelief" like a movie. It's about producing an immersive experience.  Having an art style that does that is important.  Trying to make them look like "real people" is both not possible and I think counter productive.  This is why anime characters look like anime characters instead of real people.

2.  Archie can't pull its punches.  This is why the drama is usually weak.  The issues characters face sometimes seem extremely tame and have a Seasamea Street + after school special feeling to them, because I think the editing policy was really keeping things too toned down.  You can't have g-rated drama with no real danger, negativity, harsh feelings, etc.

Offline jdh417

Re: Colleen Doran's version of Betty and Veronica
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 12:01:48 AM »
Trying to do issue drama in a teen story tends to quickly become an after school special sort of moralizing.  However, letting teen characters display real emotions in their interactions with each other would keep them from coming off as flat or as just a bunch of goofy clowns.  A character showing a little genuine heart goes a long way.

Back to the art.  I still say letting other artists try their own interpretations would be good for the company.  The readers (including myself) are always going to want to see the house style predominate, but there should still be some room for experimentation to keep the look fresh and to attract new talent.  With that willingness, perhaps a few big name artists might be motivated to submit their work.  That kind of publicity will attract more collectors.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
4 Replies
3161 Views
Last post December 24, 2009, 05:52:34 PM
by darkmark
4 Replies
2838 Views
Last post February 09, 2007, 06:03:17 PM
by Tuxedo Mark
2 Replies
885 Views
Last post February 29, 2012, 11:25:37 PM
by aamrun


The Archie character names and likenesses are covered by the registered trademarks/copyrights of Archie Comic Publications, Inc. and are used with permission by this site. The Official Archie Comics website can be visited at www.archiecomics.com.
Live Support