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Reboot artwork quality (or lack thereof).....

Started by Mr.Lodge, April 12, 2016, 08:47:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Fernando Ruiz

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2016, 02:11:21 AM


Can you remember back when DeCarlo was having his legal battles with ACP?  Were these things discussed among the younger generation of artists & writers, or was there ever any sense of foreboding about the 'handwriting on the wall', etc?  After all, this was even after such well-publicized battles of 'creator vs. company' as Siegel & Shuster vs DC and Kirby vs Marvel. Surely at ACP this must have seemed like a large and scary prospect.

When I first started back in '94, the main guy at Archie... and deservedly so... was Dan DeCarlo. Very closely behind him was Stan Goldberg. They were the giants of the company and there was a sense that they were the top priority (Again, deservedly so!) and that they would always be taken care of. (HA!)

There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!

It was definitely a shock when Dan and the Company first started having their trouble. The shock, however, was tempered by the fact that Dan kept right on working. The guy was invincible! He could shake the Company down and they needed him so badly that they still gave him work. He even gave some pretty searing and candid interviews at the time and he was still working. The highest crime in Archie's eyes has always been when one of their creator's goes public. They can club you over the head and if you say "ouch" out loud, then YOU'RE the jerk. I'm not sure what exactly was the final straw for Archie if it was the actual lawsuit, the heated interviews or what but at some point they had enough and they stopped giving Dan work. When that happened, we realized that no one was safe.  No one, however, was more traumatized by the overwhelmingly negative publicity than Archie itself. In many ways, this was a black eye on them that never completely went away.


Fernando Ruiz

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 15, 2016, 02:15:29 AM

Fernando, I didn't realize you were there for that long.  :o

Wow.

Yep.

The tombstone where my Archie career is buried reads:

1994-2016

RIP



irishmoxie

Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 16, 2016, 08:29:06 AM

There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!



These are some of my favs. I wish they'd bring these back.

Fernando Ruiz


invisifan

 ::) Actually I think that looks a bit better than the current — and I'd bet you'd keep it consistent from panel to panel  ;)

DeCarlo Rules

#20
Quote from: irishmoxie on April 16, 2016, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 16, 2016, 08:29:06 AM

There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!



These are some of my favs. I wish they'd bring these back.

These were all 48-page Giants from the 1990s, but were mainly made up of reprint material, usually with a new lead story (and here I think Fernando actually meant to say "Betty & Veronica Summer Fun", since unlike the other two, B&V Spectacular was a regular-size ongoing title from 1992-2009 that lasted 90 issues, a decent run). Included in that same category were Josie and the Pussycats (2 issues), Reggie's Revenge (3 issues), Jughead's Baby Tales (2 issues), and Cheryl Blossom Special (4 issues). Archie's Spring Break Special lasted 5 issues (1996-2000); Archie's Christmas Stocking lasted 7 issues (1993-1999), and Betty & Veronica Summer Fun also lasted 7 (1994-2000). In a way, these were sort of a replacement for the ARCHIE GIANT SERIES which ended in 1987 (although by that time, it had ceased being an actual Giant in page count by a decade or more), and had traditionally featured those seasonal annuals like Christmas Stocking and Summer Fun. There were other occasional one-shot giants that could be considered part of this group, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Meet Archie, but B&V Summer Fun #7 (2000) was the last of these.

Barring those occasional special projects like Archie vs Predator, Archie vs Sharknado, and (hopefully sometime before the year ends) Archie Meets Ramones, it seems pretty clear that ACP is done with classic Archie in the floppy comics format. That format will be devoted to the New Riverdale and Archie Horror titles going forward, or at least that's clearly the intent on ACP's part, unless people let them know otherwise by their purchasing decisions.

Mr.Lodge

Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 17, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Look! I can draw Nu Jughead too!
Don't dumb yourself down, Fernando - You're much better than that! Plus you actually have real talent.  ;D

Erica must have taken an abstract art class to learn how to chicken scratch.  :idiot2:

DeCarlo Rules

#22
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 17, 2016, 01:52:20 AM
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 17, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Look! I can draw Nu Jughead too!
Don't dumb yourself down, Fernando - You're much better than that! Plus you actually have real talent.  ;D

Erica must have taken an abstract art class to learn how to chicken scratch.  :idiot2:

That kind of scribbly artwork is perfectly acceptable for some offbeat, alternative type creator-owned independent comics. Heck, you can even look at some of the long-running  newspaper comics like CATHY or DILBERT -- they're no great shakes in the artwork department, but they've been carried along for years on the strength of the basic concept and the writing.

On the other hand, sometimes working for the mainstream means you've got to temper yourself and dial it down a notch or two. Seeing Fernando's art on DIE KITTY DIE is a real eye-opener in that respect, the best work I've ever seen from him. It makes it seem like the editors at Archie Comics were holding him back from what he's really capable of. Or maybe he just put extra loving care and attention into it because Kitty is something he can call his own.

GingerGal

I don't have really anything to compare to because of not reading "Classic" Archie and only seeing various panels on the internet. It is definitely a different type of art style and I can see why some people would love that and hate the drastic change to where they are at now. For me though I think the art work for the most part on the new stuff has been very good. Of course there has been artists on these series that I enjoyed their work better than others and the one thing I'd like is if Archie Comics would pick one artist and stick with them on the series. I do really like the new series and am especially enjoying the stories(especially Jughead).

Jabroniville

Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 15, 2016, 12:23:00 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2016, 12:10:56 AM
Sadly, I can remember back in the mid-1970s when the prevailing wisdom among comic book consumers had it that Jack Kirby was a hack, a has-been, washed-up.


I've been noticing this phenomena the last few years as we lose some of the Greats in our industry.


Solid reliable workhorses like Jim Aparo, Herb Trimpe and Nick Cardy are revered now after their deaths, but at the end of their lives, these guys couldn't get any work outside of commissions and convention sketches. It's only after these guys dies that all of a sudden their fans seen to roll out and sing their due praises.
Unfortunately true of just about everything. Prince was a joke for pretty much my entire adult life, and most of my teenage life ("LOL HIS NAME IS NOW A SYMBOL! WHAT A WEIRDO!"). Now he dies, and suddenly everyone's crawling out of the woodwork to proclaim him a lost genius who revolutionized the entire planet. He had some "legit rep" due to his Limited-Access Concerts or whatever, but he was a joke for years. Michael Jackson was the same- he went from "Creepy Probable-Pedophile Who Went Insane to Greatest Artist of All Time" as soon as they carted the body out of his mansion.

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