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Riverdale TV Series

Started by Imnotmark, April 02, 2016, 10:30:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mazz

Quote from: BettyReggie on May 20, 2016, 06:59:10 AM
At least it gives us something to look forward to.
I just can't get too excited over this show.

60sBettyandReggie

You guys seen the official Riverdale trailer?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NxIg3tuUo


I hate it.

60sBettyandReggie

Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


Mazz

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:04:29 PM
You guys seen the official Riverdale trailer?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NxIg3tuUo


I hate it.
Definitely not the Riverdale I have read about for so long in the comics.

CAPalace

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:04:29 PM
You guys seen the official Riverdale trailer?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NxIg3tuUo


I hate it.

I was laughing. It was way over-the-top and it seemed more like one of those fake/spoof trailers from College Humor or Funny or Die would do. Maybe it seemed funny to me because I can't get the real Archie's face out of my head as this Riverdale Archie runs around taking off his shirt and making out with everyone all dramatically.

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.



spazaru

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.

I get why people are unhappy, but what would you have them do in the face of massively declining sales?  It remains to be seen if any of this will work (I'm skeptical), but "evolve or die" is basically the way things are now. 

invisifan

#307
Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 PM
"evolve or die" is basically the way things are now.
"Evolve/change/grow" or stagnate & die ā€” That's the way all aspects of life have always been ā€” the question is whether any of these changes work as "evolution" ...

DeCarlo Rules

#308
Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.

I get why people are unhappy, but what would you have them do in the face of massively declining sales?  It remains to be seen if any of this will work (I'm skeptical), but "evolve or die" is basically the way things are now.


"Survival of the fittest" doesn't happen by evolving overnight. The way it's supposed to happen is that a long long long series of small changes over time gradually accumulates, resulting in a distant descendant who doesn't resemble its ancient ancestor, but who nevertheless adapted incrementally to their changing environment over time. When there is a drastic change in a single generation of offspring that don't resemble their parents at all, we call them "mutants". In this case, we really don't know if these Mutant Archies are "fittest" to survive, they're too new to tell whether they're well-adapted for survival. One thing's sure... they are different, that much is readily apparent.


For a comic book company, commerce is the only thing that's important. The continued ability to sell is the only survival trait. You can try to equate the situation to one of a Dylan Thomas-esque "Do not go gentle into that good night -- Rage, rage, against the dying of the light." But for those who are devoted to the essence or intangible qualities of the classic Archie stories, the characters do not live on in name alone. We would rather see a death with dignity, to die as one lived, preserving the once-appreciated qualities that are now rejected by a heartless universe. We would rather remember the Archie Comics we knew and loved than see it replaced by some pretender.

spazaru

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 04:14:26 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.

I get why people are unhappy, but what would you have them do in the face of massively declining sales?  It remains to be seen if any of this will work (I'm skeptical), but "evolve or die" is basically the way things are now.


"Survival of the fittest" doesn't happen by evolving overnight. The way it's supposed to happen is that a long long long series of small changes over time gradually accumulates, resulting in a distant descendant who doesn't resemble its ancient ancestor, but who nevertheless adapted incrementally to their changing environment over time. When there is a drastic change in a single generation of offspring that don't resemble their parents at all, we call them "mutants". In this case, we really don't know if these Mutant Archies are "fittest" to survive, they're too new to tell whether they're well-adapted for survival. One thing's sure... they are different, that much is readily apparent.


For a comic book company, commerce is the only thing that's important. The continued ability to sell is the only survival trait. You can try to equate the situation to one of a Dylan Thomas-esque "Do not go gentle into that good night -- Rage, rage, against the dying of the light." But for those who are devoted to the essence or intangible qualities of the classic Archie stories, the characters do not live on in name alone. We would rather see a death with dignity, to die as one lived, preserving the once-appreciated qualities that are now rejected by a heartless universe. We would rather remember the Archie Comics we knew and loved than see it replaced by some pretender.

I get that and am inclined to agree.  WE would rather see that.  Archie Comics is trying to survive as a business.  The way we liked it wasn't working.  I wish it was.  I could have gone on forever that way, but in a way I also can accept change.  My favorite band's new album doesn't sound anything like the first one that came out in 1994.  I loved the first one and it was why I started liking the band in the first place.  However, things change.  I'm willing to give them a chance to try new things and see if I like them.  Same thing I'm doing with Archie.  I get that you don't like what they're doing; I have mixed feelings so far but more positive than negative.  Either way, I totally understand their decision.  3-4000 copies a month wasn't getting it.  The sales on the new titles are headed down too.  If they get much lower, I suspect they'll try something else.  I doubt it will be to go back to the classic style, though.  They already saw what happened with that. 

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
I get that and am inclined to agree.  WE would rather see that.  Archie Comics is trying to survive as a business.  The way we liked it wasn't working.  I wish it was.  I could have gone on forever that way, but in a way I also can accept change.


It is not my job to insure the survival of Archie Comics. It is their job as a publisher to deliver a product that I can be excited about and love, and in exchange I shower them with the manna of my consumer dollars, by which they receive their sustenance. If they are not servicing me with the type of product I want, I don't owe them anything. Every single individual consumer has that choice to make on his or her own. I don't have to fall into any lines or get with any programs. I have the freedom of choice to reject what is offered if it's not agreeable to me, with no strings attached. If they continue to fail to service me as an individual, then we will have to further grow apart and will eventually come to a parting of the ways. For Archie Comics' sake for their own survival, I hope they guess right, but on the other hand, maybe Archie Comics' survival as a publisher is not in MY own best interests. Maybe it would be better if ACP died the real death that eventually happens to most comic book publishers, because it's been proven time and again that characters can outlast publishers. Maybe I improve my chances as a consumer if IDW or some other publisher picks up the ball. That's up to ACP. Depending on what decisions they decide to commit to, I will react favorably or negatively. What I will NOT do is mollycoddle them like a venerated but enfeebled grandparent.


So there seems to be a fundamental disconnect here between us. I am not here to service Archie Comics, they are here to service me. It is the same deal for EACH individual consumer, so each gets to make that choice. We don't have go along with the will of the majority for the good of the publisher.

spazaru

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 05:50:40 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
I get that and am inclined to agree.  WE would rather see that.  Archie Comics is trying to survive as a business.  The way we liked it wasn't working.  I wish it was.  I could have gone on forever that way, but in a way I also can accept change.


It is not my job to insure the survival of Archie Comics. It is their job as a publisher to deliver a product that I can be excited about and love, and in exchange I shower them with the manna of my consumer dollars, by which they receive their sustenance. If they are not servicing me with the type of product I want, I don't owe them anything. Every single individual consumer has that choice to make on his or her own. I don't have to fall into any lines or get with any programs. I have the freedom of choice to reject what is offered if it's not agreeable to me, with no strings attached. If they continue to fail to service me as an individual, then we will have to further grow apart and will eventually come to a parting of the ways. For Archie Comics' sake for their own survival, I hope they guess right, but on the other hand, maybe Archie Comics' survival as a publisher is not in MY own best interests. Maybe it would be better if ACP died the real death that eventually happens to most comic book publishers, because it's been proven time and again that characters can outlast publishers. Maybe I improve my chances as a consumer if IDW or some other publisher picks up the ball. That's up to ACP. Depending on what decisions they decide to commit to, I will react favorably or negatively. What I will NOT do is mollycoddle them like a venerated but enfeebled grandparent.


So there seems to be a fundamental disconnect here between us. I am not here to service Archie Comics, they are here to service me. It is the same deal for EACH individual consumer, so each gets to make that choice. We don't have go along with the will of the majority for the good of the publisher.

And I never suggested otherwise.  Just saying I'm keeping an open mind. 

Mazz

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 05:50:40 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
I get that and am inclined to agree.  WE would rather see that.  Archie Comics is trying to survive as a business.  The way we liked it wasn't working.  I wish it was.  I could have gone on forever that way, but in a way I also can accept change.


It is not my job to insure the survival of Archie Comics. It is their job as a publisher to deliver a product that I can be excited about and love, and in exchange I shower them with the manna of my consumer dollars, by which they receive their sustenance. If they are not servicing me with the type of product I want, I don't owe them anything. Every single individual consumer has that choice to make on his or her own. I don't have to fall into any lines or get with any programs. I have the freedom of choice to reject what is offered if it's not agreeable to me, with no strings attached. If they continue to fail to service me as an individual, then we will have to further grow apart and will eventually come to a parting of the ways. For Archie Comics' sake for their own survival, I hope they guess right, but on the other hand, maybe Archie Comics' survival as a publisher is not in MY own best interests. Maybe it would be better if ACP died the real death that eventually happens to most comic book publishers, because it's been proven time and again that characters can outlast publishers. Maybe I improve my chances as a consumer if IDW or some other publisher picks up the ball. That's up to ACP. Depending on what decisions they decide to commit to, I will react favorably or negatively. What I will NOT do is mollycoddle them like a venerated but enfeebled grandparent.


So there seems to be a fundamental disconnect here between us. I am not here to service Archie Comics, they are here to service me. It is the same deal for EACH individual consumer, so each gets to make that choice. We don't have go along with the will of the majority for the good of the publisher.

And I never suggested otherwise.  Just saying I'm keeping an open mind.
My mind will be wide open to change the channel once I watch the first 30 minutes of it. :)

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
And I never suggested otherwise.  Just saying I'm keeping an open mind.

Here's the thing, spazaru. You have already made ONE fundamental choice that puts the two of us in very dissimilar positions. You made the choice (which I do not criticize -- you have your own reasons, for which I don't pretend to judge the validity) to read ONLY Archie Comics. That more or less puts you in position where it's ACP or nothing. So for you, ACP is merely competing against ACP... the ACP of the past versus the one of the present. That limits you to three options: (1) You can buy the new products they offer, or (2) decide not to buy them, or (3) spend your money on some old ACP back issues. I guess maybe a fourth would be to buy Archie Comics reprints offered by other publishers like IDW and Dark Horse. But that's the entire playing field for you, your entire list of options. It simplifies your choice of what to do with your disposable income as a consumer of comic books.

I have all those options, plus the vast array of options to buy products from other publishers products that have nothing to do with Archie. With every choice, I need to reevaluate what I'm getting the most entertainment value from. To the extent that there is a void in a certain type of product like classic style teen humor comics, other publishers will try to fill that need to some extent - already we see a small bit of that with products from Sitcomics, AstroComix, and Pixie Trix. Publishers of classic Archie reprints like IDW and Dark Horse can be included in that group. That's a small list of products to siphon off my disposable income, but it doesn't include decades worth of back issues of actual Archie Comics that were published that I could be spending my money on instead of the current product ACP offers.

All of those together are merely a tiny fraction of the much larger number of current consumer products for comic books. I have to judge every $4 I could potentially spend on an issue of Archie, Jughead, Betty and Veronica, Afterlife With Archie, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, any of the Dark Circle titles or any of the Archie Action titles against every other product being offered by every other publisher. Since there is a finite limit to my time and money, only the comics that I judge to be the most entertaining return on my comic dollar will make the cut. The list of comics I'm buying needs to be constantly reassessed, culled and weeded, so that only the things I enjoy most remain. There's no room in there for comics that fall in the categories of "Well, since it's the only thing they're offering, I guess it's better than nothing" or "I guess it's not completely terrible; it still has some good points". The comic book marketplace is extremely competitive, so it forces me to be close-minded to things that I'm not enjoying unreservedly. The nature of titles that come and go constantly, and changing content and creative teams will never allow any stability, so to the extent that things are new, I allow some leeway for a "trial run", but I can't allow that for everything. I can't read everything published by every publisher for 6 issues before giving it the thumbs-down and the heave-ho from my reading list, and I can't even do that for ONE publisher like ACP. They're fractional in the spectrum of available choices in reading material that's out there. That's why I gave up on the rebooted ARCHIE after only 2 issues - I could already see that it wasn't doing anything for me. I've been reading comics long enough that I can articulate exactly what I enjoy, and have a finely honed personal aesthetic sense for what I like and what I don't, and WHY. My sensibilities are eclectic and and diverse, but also narrowly defined by that same aesthetic. I like BATMAN, but ONLY certain types of Batman. I like ARCHIE, but ONLY certain types of Archie. Same goes for Superman and Spider-Man, horror comics, war comics, western comics, alternative comix, and every other character and genre right on down the line. If you're ONLY picking and choosing comics from ACP (present and past), you've already closed your mind to those other competing publishers, characters and genres and narrowed your list of possible choices down to a very limited number. That's just comic books. Movies and TV shows are subject by me to even harsher standards because the time or money spent on them is competing with the limited time and money I have to devote to comics as well. Even more so than comics, there's where I need to make gut decisions based on what I read or hear about them, before I even see them.

60sBettyandReggie

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 03:40:34 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!! :tickedoff:


JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
.....


I was thinking about this the other day. What was the difference between the "Bad Boy Trouble" and this new Archie reboot? Why didn't they stick to that new look back then? Why just now?

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