collapse

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Random Image

bettysdiary02

bettysdiary02

* Search


* Recent Topics

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Biollante: play*
    Today at 09:53:53 AM
  • Biollante: oops looks like 59 percent of african americans support gay marriage, great job conservo-think tanks, your attempt to paly minorities against eachother fell flat on its face
    Today at 09:53:30 AM
  • Steveinthecity: You should have seen the commotion caused years ago when Susan Richards was drawn with a new hairstyle.
    Today at 02:19:44 AM
  • PTF: Thor's hammer has fan club? :)
    Yesterday at 05:55:58 PM
  • Banshee: Because we fans take our favorite stuff seriously, that is why.
    Yesterday at 01:38:07 PM
  • PTF: It's a magic hammer. It doesn't have to make sense. :)
    Yesterday at 11:54:00 AM
  • Steveinthecity: I wonder why it's always readers that catch mistakes with art, powers, plots, continuity, uniforms, etc. and not the creators and editors?  I hope they're not secretly laughing at us. ;)
    Yesterday at 05:09:43 AM
  • Steveinthecity: When Thor pulls the hammer back to throw, his momentum stops. He has always been able to float or hover once airborne, and he'll remain until the hammer comes back to him.  I guess the winds keep him aloft.
    Yesterday at 05:05:34 AM
  • Biollante: ok so shouldn't Joe Quesada know that? lol  It made him look a bit stupid imo.
    May 21, 2012, 07:57:37 AM
  • Jabroniville: Yeah, that's odd- Thor usually has the Hammer out in front. Though I don't think it's ever explained how he can throw it while in mid-flight and not just plummet like a goof. I wish artists would stop having him do things like that :)
    May 21, 2012, 07:23:13 AM
  • Steveinthecity: @Biolante:  Thor uses the hammer to fly. He can throw his hammer during flight and float in one spot until the hammer returns to him. Don't know what Joe Q. was thinking there. I've never seen Thor fly on his own.
    May 21, 2012, 12:59:03 AM
  • NineZero09: How the world can be...and the universe can be.
    May 21, 2012, 12:32:36 AM
  • NineZero09: I watched the annular solar eclipse, but partial at where I live.
    May 21, 2012, 12:32:21 AM
  • NineZero09: Sad to read about Donna Summer and Robin Gibb passed away.
    May 21, 2012, 12:32:05 AM
  • comicsrod: As You may know Tonight of some Sad News the Robin Gibb 1/3 members of the fame Disco Group The Bee Gees has Passed Away at the age of 62 our Hearts go out to the only Survivor Bee Gees member Barry Gibb & His Family and his Music and Hollywood Friends as we Remember the Music Superstar he will be miss very much   ROBIN GIBB 1949-2012
    May 20, 2012, 10:20:12 PM
  • Biollante: Joe Quesada was drawing Thor on some Disney promo, and he drew him flying with his hammer on his side, now I'm not a Thor junkie, but isn't that actualy inaccurate, doesn't he fly by being dragged by his hammer???
    May 20, 2012, 08:54:59 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: R.I.P., Robin Gibb. :(
    May 20, 2012, 08:19:21 PM
  • Biollante: I'm just glad he's giving back to his fans by revisiting Blade Runner and Alien with Prometheus, I'm sure he's going to deliver too, his legacy as a film maker is on the line since those are his more iconic films
    May 20, 2012, 11:38:08 AM
  • Biollante: aesthetics*
    May 20, 2012, 10:58:08 AM
  • Biollante: gonna be hard for anyting to catch up, Ridley Scott is pretty much the top of dark visual design imo, and he drew a lot from Moebius for that film, most fillm makers are not really connected to aestheticas of good fantasy film making in the same way
    May 20, 2012, 10:55:18 AM

Author Topic: Jim Shooter's blog  (Read 522 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jabroniville

Jim Shooter's blog
« on: November 30, 2011, 02:33:50 AM »
A few months back, I discovered an amazing blog by Jim Shooter, the former Editor-In-Chief for Marvel Comics during one of their peak periods (the 1980s). It's got a ton of great stuff, featuring a lot of stories from the "old days". There's some A-class stuff featuring diatribes about the modern state of the business, and more.

Shooter's pretty famous for being hyper-strict and cheesing off a lot of the talent working under him (he's unapologetic, and just states that "creative people don't like to be told 'No'."- he points out when he wouldn't let someone have Peter Parker have a child out of wedlock in the 1980s). He also had Marv Wolfman, Roy Thomas, Steve Gerber and others leave Marvel in the '80s, while DC had a lot of creative success with their British writers. HOWEVER, Shooter points out that the "Editor in Chief" has one key job- increase the profitability of the company, and that he did (he was E.I.C. for almost all of Chris Claremont's run).

http://www.jimshooter.com/

Here's a bit about when Marvel almost got the rights to make DC-licenced comics, because DC's comics were selling so poorly in the '80s: http://www.jimshooter.com/2011_08_01_archive.html (look for "First Marvel Issue")

A bit about being a hard editor for young newbie talents, but knowing when to draw the line: http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/05/bill-sienkiewicz-is-spider-man.html (best line: "Chris Claremont wanted to work with him on New Mutants. I knew that meant throwing down all rules, boundaries and occasionally common sense sometimes and dancing upon them, but, hey, we were Marvel Comics, and if we weren’t willing to experiment, who would? Those were remarkable comics. Young people learning the trade I made follow the grid, do the basics till they learned. But once a person showed chops like Bill had, or Miller had, the smart play was to let them go invent. And they did.")

A rant about modern storytelling failures in comics:
Quote
RE: Storytelling by artists.  Too many artists these days have no understanding of how to convey information -- that is, how to do their part of telling the story.  Or they think it's their job to make cool pictures and that's all -- explaining things is up to the writer -- he or she can always add a caption or something.  Some of them have that attitude even when it's a full script!  Or, they actively ignore what is called for and draw whatever the hell they want because they think story doesn't matter.

Call for an establishing shot.  They give you a big head shot.  Tell them to draw figures in action.  It's a mile away or cropped to the point that it's meaningless.  Tell them to draw a close up.  They think it's time to do a direct overhead shot of the room that mostly features the floor.  Give them ref, they ignore it and make something up.  Don't give them ref and they complain.

Sigh.

In my scripts I tell the artists what they need to get across, provide reference, even throw in scribble sketches sometimes.  I plead with them to make everything clear at a glance.  I say things like:

"MAKE THIS SHOT SO CLEAR THAT IF YOU TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT AND SHOWED IT TO ANYONE IN THE WORLD THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.  Same with every shot, every time.  COMMUNICATE!  Or nothing else matters."

And:

"If we took this panel out of context and showed it to anyone in the world, they should say, 'There’s a pilot quickly getting into his seat in the cockpit of a jet and a Native American is running toward the jet just ahead of a dinosaur that’s chasing him.'  Clear at a glance."

And:

"It doesn’t matter to me how you show this as long as anyone in the world, seeing this panel alone, out of context, would say, 'The man in the red suit is firing energy beams that are destroying what appears to be a big computer.'"

And:

"Imagine you're showing what you draw to 1000 people who have never seen a comic book before.  Make sure that every single one of them will understand, clearly, at a glance."

Blah, blah, blah....  You get the drift.

Do they always listen?

I'll take the fifth.  Dewar's if you got it, neat.

RE: Continuity.  Continuity should be a good thing.  The problem isn't necessarily continuity, except the kind of "continuity" abused by writers obsessed with ancient minutia, either trying to "fix" some tiny glitch that happened years ago, or reconcile some dusty detail with the current retcon, or base what passes for a story on some such flimsy foundation.  Continuity, even detailed continuity can be groovy, if it matters, if it is effortlessly understood.

Writers also have this "you're supposed to know" attitude that appalls me.  I tried to read a Justice League (?) book a while back that started with a bunch of characters only some of whom were familiar to me.  None of them were introduced -- most writers these days don't know what that term means -- and everyone was referred to by his or her civilian first name.  "Bruce" I got.  "Kal" I got.  Then the "Carters" were mentioned.  Who?  Later, halfway through, I remembered that Carter is Hawkman's civilian last name.  Right?  Slogging through this thing wasn't easy.  And I felt like I wasn't in the club.  And when I was done, except for a nifty bit in the middle, I felt like it was a pretty thin read.  And confusing.  If I was a first time reader, I would have pitched the thing by page three and never bought another one.

Nifty bits.  These guys become stars because of occasional nifty bits.  Never mind that as a whole the thing is a Swedish movie with no subtitles starting in the middle and going nowhere.

P.S. The writers of Law and Order, a fairly sophisticated show, introduce characters.  I'll bet other TV shows I'm less familiar with do, too.  Pretty much EVERY professional writer in EVERY medium introduces the characters.  Except in comics.  There are few movies I can't make sense of, few TV shows I know of ever that were tough to decipher, few novels that I can't read effotlessly.  But comics?  Too many are impenetrable.  Some you can figure out aren't worth the bother.  And very once in a while, there's a gem.  Far too infrequently.

Is anyone manning the helm?

One good thing -- many of these writers don't challenge the artists much.  Maybe they know better.  There's fighting, consisting mostly of punching, rather than innovative, creative use of powers.  There's grimacing -- useful for swearing vengeance, anger, intensity.  All purpose grimacing.  There's looking grim.  What else?  There's being defeated, battered and bleeding, that's a staple.  What else?  I don't know.

But here's one of the main issues, getting back to continuity: way too much of what's done is DERIVATIVE.  Nothing new.  Iteration after iteration of the same old stuff.  Same villains again and again.  Same tired concepts rehashed.  Endless permutations of the base conceit -- Rick Jones becomes the Hulk!  No, Betty does!  No, what could be more shocking than General Ross!  I know, Krypto!  Wait, this isn't a crossover....

I'll end the rant with a story:

Some years back, at the Frankfurt Book Fair, I met Terry Stewart.  I didn't have a stand, so my friend Wolfgang, head of a German comics publisher allowed me to use his stand as a base as I made my rounds.  I came into the office (most "stands," or booths, have private offices) at one point to sit for a while and rest.  There was a guy there flirting with Heike, one of Wolfgang's employees.  He wasn't thrilled about being interrupted.  But then he noticed my name badge and introduced himself.  Terry Stewart, President of Marvel.

We talked for a while about various biz-related things.  Then, he said, words to the effect, "I feel like we've won the lottery two years in a row (with X-Men #1 the previous year and X-Factor that year).  You're supposed to be the big comics guru.  What do I do next?"

I told him he'd done all the easy-money things.  Now Marvel was going to have to create something.

A parade of derivative stuff has come out from Marvel since.  I'm still waiting for something new from the "House of Idea."

Here endeth the epistle.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 02:46:39 AM by Jabroniville »
"Who knows what kind of den of corruption Riverdale could turn out to be?"- The Punisher, "Archie Meets The Punisher"

Offline Jabroniville

Re: Jim Shooter's blog
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 02:36:00 AM »
His review of "Red Hood & The Outlaws #1", going step-by-step, like an editor should, though it's failures:

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/10/dc-comics-new-52.html

Best Line: "OPEN MESSAGE TO DC COMICS:


EVERY ISSUE SHOULD BE AN ENTRY POINT!


Fools."

An important lesson comics forgets all too often. Oddly, "Archie" seems to have the best track record of this- you could pick up nearly any Double Digest and immediately figure out the basics of the universe. My first-ever Digest easily caught me up on the Love Triangle dynamic, the Moose/Midge thing, how Jughead was, how Reggie was, etc. Sure, they sometimes overdo the "First panel exposition" thing (y'know, where characters go "boy, it sure was a great idea for all of us to come to Alaska, along with my dad, who's hear on business!"), but it's really easy-to-read stuff. A lot of Marvel and DC stuff nowadays is so complex that ONLY people who get every book can pay attention.

Hahah, a GREAT insult at Judd Winick's expense, for his awful "Catwoman #1":
Quote
I guess that’s (cheesecake) what DC, Winick and March were going for. If so, they accomplished it well. Luckily for Winick, basic story-crafting and wordsmithing skills were not required.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 03:01:02 AM by Jabroniville »
"Who knows what kind of den of corruption Riverdale could turn out to be?"- The Punisher, "Archie Meets The Punisher"

Offline Bluto

Re: Jim Shooter's blog
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:11:21 PM »
Great stuff!  Thanks for the link!  Much appreciated!

Offline Jabroniville

Re: Jim Shooter's blog
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 10:57:54 PM »
No problem. It's fascinating stuff to read about, even if I don't agree with every point.

Here's an excellent interview on Comic Book Resources: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=147
Part 2: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=146

Some great bits-
* DAZZLER once outsold Superman by 160,000 issues to 100,000.
* NO Marvel issues sold below 100,000 a month (whereas DC had 3- Titans, Warlord & Superman). Nowadays, only one or two comic books PERIOD sell over 100,000).
* Marvel almost distributed "Metal Hurlant" (known here as "Heavy Metal"), but Stan Lee himself didn't want the bad headlines. Shooter was grouchy when it turned out to be a big success.
* "Or like Chris (Claremont), he'll have Storm walk out, one guy calls her Windrider, the next person calls her Ororo, you know what I mean. If you're a new reader, who the hell is this broad? I kept trying to say, guys, we have new readers, they don't know all the answers, we are telling them the stories, ya see?"
* About Claremont: "He's the one who built the X-Men franchise. He recruited artists when they needed artists. In order to keep the best colorists and letterers, he paid people out of his own pocket to Glynis Oliver and Tom Orzechowski. He really poured his heart into that. If you edited something, don't touch his copy. Make a note in the margin, he'll fix the problem in his own words. He didn't want your words, he wanted his words. And I respected that. But I didn't have a problem telling him what I thought was wrong"
* Great stuff about the Claremont/John Byrne split and the little sniping they'd do at each other in their own books.
* He once stopped Bill Mantlo from having Spidey father an illegimitate child- basically told him to write a version of it for another company (where everyone would still get the joke), but that he COULD NOT touch the company's star that way- all because of money. He's completely unapologetic about it, too. "It's my job."
* A fun look at the corporate empire based around Marvel, and how shocking it is that ANYTHING good every gets done.
* A pretty honest answer: "I would have done a lot of things differently. I made some incredibly stupid judgements and some incredibly pathetic mistakes."
* "And so, I had a very determined goal to try to broaden the reach of comics. I didn't think there was anything wrong with reaching the hardcore fan -- I felt like I was in that group -- but I wanted to have comics for everybody. We tried to reach older with Epic Comics, we tried to reach younger with Star Comics, and in general, tried to make the comics more readable, more acceptable so they could be read by everybody. And I also tried to broaden the point of view. I encouraged people to take a point of view. "
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 11:03:57 PM by Jabroniville »
"Who knows what kind of den of corruption Riverdale could turn out to be?"- The Punisher, "Archie Meets The Punisher"

Online Steveinthecity

Re: Jim Shooter's blog
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 11:55:22 PM »
I read Shooters blog whenever I think of it. Although he has been panned or maligned by a great many I believe under his watch Marvel produced their last "great"  age in which story, art, character development, and continuity combined to offer a consistent level of quality throughout the entire line. I appreciate his retelling of events and his opinions of the comic market of that period as there seem to be few comics "insiders" from previous eras unwilling or unable to share the history they participated in. 

Offline Jabroniville

Re: Jim Shooter's blog
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2012, 02:24:55 AM »
Some guys are more willing- John Byrne has a hilariously-biased and angry section at his "Byrne Robotics" site about that era, and how much he dislikes working with lots of people (Jim Shooter chief among them). It's fun to read his take, though, as he often gets self-effacing and humourous about things (like when Shooter forced them to kill The Phoenix/Jean Grey, or how he admits that despite the fame of his X-run, sales ROSE once he'd quit).
"Who knows what kind of den of corruption Riverdale could turn out to be?"- The Punisher, "Archie Meets The Punisher"

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
689 Views
Last post November 30, 2007, 10:14:30 AM
by ronnie343
0 Replies
768 Views
Last post June 18, 2011, 11:53:29 AM
by StupendoDog
0 Replies
259 Views
Last post August 23, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
by John Asperger


The Archie character names and likenesses are covered by the registered trademarks/copyrights of Archie Comic Publications, Inc. and are used with permission by this site. The Official Archie Comics website can be visited at www.archiecomics.com.