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  • Biollante: pollster*
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    May 21, 2012, 12:59:03 AM
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    May 20, 2012, 08:54:59 PM
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    May 20, 2012, 08:19:21 PM

Author Topic: From Voice of America Hindi  (Read 4351 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline aamrun

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 02:11:19 AM »
Agreed, but Archie and his friends show the evolution of American culture and society. I wouldn't be surprised if our kids or grandkids found the comic lines ( Life with Archie etc.) to be too naive, lame or even provocative.

Much as our previous generation and even some of us ( myself included ) are turned off by the fact that Jug is being portrayed as gay. Right, now every guy who doesn't have or run after a girl will be gay :P

Offline Biollante

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 04:22:47 AM »
Agreed, but Archie and his friends show the evolution of American culture and society. I wouldn't be surprised if our kids or grandkids found the comic lines ( Life with Archie etc.) to be too naive, lame or even provocative.

Much as our previous generation and even some of us ( myself included ) are turned off by the fact that Jug is being portrayed as gay. Right, now every guy who doesn't have or run after a girl will be gay :P

Jughead isn't being portrayed as gay.  Don't know what you're talking about.  He's like canon non-internested in either sex.  Although, if you want to get technical, there's been subtext for that like going back to the early DeCarlo days and maybe even before that.  He's actually a whole lot less gay-seeming now especially with him being married to Midge and all that.  Are you thinking of Kevin or something?

And there was as many gay people now as in previous generations.  It's just certain people are less afraid of being waterboarded by conservative soccer moms for acknowledging the existence of gay people because being exposed to concepts like acceptance and tolerance interferes with their ability  to indoctrinate their children into being little bigots that terrorize other kids in school.

Anyways, I kind of realize that if you went back to 1960, it isn't too surprising something like that would occur, but 1992?  That's just insane.  I don't know who that editor was, but everyone involved should be embarrassed if they're still alive:

Quote
How big? Well, in an essay on his website, comics writer Dwayne McDuffie relates a story of an irate reaction by the Archie editors at a story of interracial dating in "Betty and Me" back in 1992. According to McDuffie, writer Matt Wayne wanted to add some tension to the series by starting another love triangle, this time with Betty as the focus, being fought over by Archie and a new character, Dexter. Archie and Dexter would become friendly rivals in the same way that Betty and Veronica were, with the added benefit that the stories would actually be about Betty.

The problem? Dexter was black. And as McDuffie relates...

Darryl called Matt with the bad news. [The editor] had literally thrown the issue at him. He hated the stuff, wanting to know why Dexter was so much more accomplished than Archie, "What is he, super-Negro?" (at least, "Negro" is what everyone who told me this story reported him as saying. I have a sneaking suspicion that they were trying to save my feelings). Darryl was very upset and told off his boss, but to no avail. He was ordered to change the story in the cheapest way possible: Dexter was to be re-colored white.
Source:

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/02/03/the-racial-politics-of-riverdale/

I think that's why the Kevin thing is a big deal.  Most companies that make stuff, quote un-quote, "aimed at kids" are still too gutless to even touch an LGBT character.  It was a shock I think, because Archie had the reputation of being pretty backwards and antiquated in certain ways.  So they at least deserve a lot of praise for that.  However, mixed race dating is something that should've been the norm decades ago, so it's more like "about time" as opposed to "bravo" I think on that count.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 04:49:07 AM by Ghidra »

Offline aamrun

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 04:57:49 AM »
I for one didn't like Jug hitting it off with Midge ( I mean, Moose is too nice a guy :) ).

I don't have the links right now but the articles/posts on Jug being gay were coming up as late as 2005 and later and they were referencing stories in the 90s.

One interesting thing Jug could have portrayed is the Singles. With the great stress being given on building careers, personal lives and marriages, commitments etc. go for a toss. This is established in the West and is quickly making up a significant part even in China and India.

Anyways, it will take some time for that to catch up in Riverdale too, at least they are the most open comics when it comes to addressing current issues.

Offline Biollante

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 06:04:52 AM »
I for one didn't like Jug hitting it off with Midge ( I mean, Moose is too nice a guy :) ).

I don't have the links right now but the articles/posts on Jug being gay were coming up as late as 2005 and later and they were referencing stories in the 90s.

One interesting thing Jug could have portrayed is the Singles. With the great stress being given on building careers, personal lives and marriages, commitments etc. go for a toss. This is established in the West and is quickly making up a significant part even in China and India.

Anyways, it will take some time for that to catch up in Riverdale too, at least they are the most open comics when it comes to addressing current issues.

Seriously, the most gay-esque Jughead stories I've seen are from the 60's and 70's.  The 90's-current stuff is tame by comparison.  This isn't something new fans invented, even CNN anchors have picked up on this. 

As far as I'm concerned, though, he's a blank slate.  You shouldn't be concerned about how other people interpret him.  They're entitled to do that like you're entitled to interpret him as straight.  Similarly, I may interpret Dorothy and Ozma from the Wizard of Oz as having a lesbian relationship, but I don't care if other people don't see it the same way.  Fiction is supposed to be interpretive.

Offline NineZero09

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 01:55:45 AM »
To Ghidra, Veronica can be from Mars for all I care.  ;D Maybe she's a lighter-skinned African-American or of mixed-race, but the way Archie comics is operated they are afraid of the possibility of Veronica is black-and-white. She reminds me of Sarah Silverman, who's Jewish by religion and ethnic origin, since interfaith marriages are common but that's a moot point.

I can't say for sure on Jughead's masculinity, though he's a good role model for teen boys the same way Archie is. This isn't Beavis and Butthead nor South park where the major characters are either involved in criminality, mischief, rudeness and obscenity. In the real world, are boys in junior high school (my nephew is now in 6th grade) always looking for trouble? xD

Offline Biollante

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2011, 12:51:26 PM »
To Ghidra, Veronica can be from Mars for all I care.  ;D Maybe she's a lighter-skinned African-American or of mixed-race, but the way Archie comics is operated they are afraid of the possibility of Veronica is black-and-white. She reminds me of Sarah Silverman, who's Jewish by religion and ethnic origin, since interfaith marriages are common but that's a moot point.

I can't say for sure on Jughead's masculinity, though he's a good role model for teen boys the same way Archie is. This isn't Beavis and Butthead nor South park where the major characters are either involved in criminality, mischief, rudeness and obscenity. In the real world, are boys in junior high school (my nephew is now in 6th grade) always looking for trouble? xD

Masculinity has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  That's more of a personality trait I think, one that a lot of people don't put a lot of emphasis on because its connected to gender norms and social constructs (although I do think people are entitled to self-identify as masculine or feminine if they please).  As is, Jughead is somewhat un-masculine or he just doesn't care about the concept of masculenity at all, which is also quite likely.  I think that actually makes him quite interesting and likable, but that's just me.  lol 

I also think Jughead is a good character because he's not a role model at all.  He's lazy, apathetic, sarcastic, and an over-eater.  Pretty much everything about him is anti-role model, and he's fine that way I think. 

South Park I don't think is a good example.  It kind of relies on "shock humor" and is probably aimed at an older audience.  Still, I've never believed television leads to criminality.  You should be able to make the distinction that TV is fantasy from extremely early childhood.  If not, there is probably some kind of chemical imbalance that needs to be addressed.

As for Veronica, unless she has a Thomas Jefferson type ancestry, I seriously doubt it.  lol

Offline aamrun

Re: From Voice of America Hindi
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2011, 01:54:11 PM »
Quote
She is called both by her name Veronica and her nickname Ronnie (sometimes shortened further to Ron). Bob Montana, creator of the original Archie characters, knew the "Boston Brahmin" political family, the Lodges, because he had once painted a mural for them. Montana combined that name with actress Veronica Lake to create the character of Veronica Lodge. Her character was added just months after Archie Andrews, Betty Cooper, Reggie Mantle and Jughead Jones debuted.

That's from wikipedia, now I think we can leave the poor girl alone.

She is disliked enough as it is :)

 

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