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Author Topic: Deteriorating Art Quality?  (Read 2856 times)

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Offline billmartinjr

Deteriorating Art Quality?
« on: August 12, 2009, 09:53:00 PM »
Now I know a lot of you like the current artists, but for those of you who, like myself, feel that the newer Archies are becoming somewhat lacking in the art department, when did you first realize it?

Personally, I like DeCarlo the best. The stories were great and the art was more detailed and somewhat realistic besides the faces. That's not to say I don't enjoy the works of any artists after or before him, I just feel that he is the apex of the Archie timeline. Now, when I was a kid and I saw Holly Gs work for the first time, THATS when I thought to myself that Archies were losing or had lost a lot of their appeal to me. After reading a few issues with her work I just stopped altogether because of the lack of appeal to me. Only later did I resume purchasing archies and boy was I glad to not see anymore of her work!

So the question I'd like to pose to all you fans is "Which artist's work is the least appealing to you?
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Offline Tuxedo Mark

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 09:56:44 PM »
Quote from: billmartinjr on August 12, 2009, 09:53:00 PM
So the question I'd like to pose to all you fans is "Which artist's work is the least appealing to you?

Dan Parent (his current stuff is too simple; his older stuff is fine)
Fernando Ruiz (too cartoony)

For the record, I love Holly G!'s artwork. Heck, I've got it in my avatar and in my sig!
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Betty Cooper + Cheryl Blossom. It's inevitable.

The Betty Cooper FAQ
http://supergirl.741.com/Betty/bettyfaq.html

The Cheryl Blossom FAQ
http://supergirl.741.com/Cheryl/cherylfaq.html

Athena

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Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 10:11:41 PM »
Well... I hate giving specific names (although the artists I have in mind are not among those who are registered at this site)... but yes, I've noticed a deterioration in much of the artwork I've seen since around the mid-90s.  One main problem I've noticed is that a lot of the backgrounds seem way too busy, overdrawn and dark.

Even so, I'm not sure I want to say that the overall quality of Archie artwork is steadily declining over the years.  In all periods there have been great artists and not-so-great ones.  It's possible that as the years pass and we become used to some of the better newer artists, their work will start to look "classic" just as DeCarlo's (and Schwartz's, and Lucey's) does to us now.  And I've seen some work from the 40s and 50s that looks pretty ghastly... maybe it just gets printed less often.  

Also, of course "quality" is a matter of personal taste and it can change in some cases if you give the artwork a chance.  I used to not like Doug Crane or Bob Bolling very much, but over time they've grown on me.
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Offline Captain Hero

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 10:27:51 PM »
I don't know if I want to answer that publicly.  A lot of Archie artists are members here, and I don't want to hurt their feelings.

The only artwork I really didn't care too much for was when they revamped Little Archie back in 1991...and even then, the stories were so creative that I ended up liking the change!  But, when Bob Bolling came back to draw the serial again, I was more than overjoyed!
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Offline billmartinjr

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 11:19:11 PM »
Quote from: Captain Hero on August 12, 2009, 10:27:51 PM
I don't know if I want to answer that publicly.  A lot of Archie artists are members here, and I don't want to hurt their feelings.

The only artwork I really didn't care too much for was when they revamped Little Archie back in 1991...and even then, the stories were so creative that I ended up liking the change!  But, when Bob Bolling came back to draw the serial again, I was more than overjoyed!

lol I didnt know artists were members here.. Oops, but hey, it is what it is. I didnt care much for the New Archies or the New Little Archie, too.
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Offline addisonian

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 11:50:50 PM »
It's not just current artists, though. Look at The Stan Goldberg Art from the much-hyped Archie # 600. To me it's downright ugly-looking. Which was not true of the art he was doing in the '70s and '80s. Maybe some of that is age, but DeCarlo's art never looked that bad near the end of his career, and neither did Samm Schwartz's.

I feel like the distinctiveness and personality isn't really there in the drawing, the way it needs to be in Archie Comics. (They don't have violence to distract us, so if they don't have personality, they have nothing.) And the feeling of "solidity" isn't really there. A lot of the current art reminds me of the art Al Hartley used to turn out when he didn't have a good inker to clean up his stuff, with everybody looking kind of blank and the art looking kind of rough and flat. But at least Hartley could draw strong poses.

I don't think this is necessarily a slam on the artists, because it's obvious that some of this has more to do with the production process than the artists themselves. There's not much doubt that Stan Goldberg can turn out nicer-looking stories than the ones he's doing now.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 11:56:02 PM by addisonian »
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Offline billmartinjr

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 12:16:31 AM »
Quote from: addisonian on August 12, 2009, 11:50:50 PM
It's not just current artists, though. Look at The Stan Goldberg Art from the much-hyped Archie # 600. To me it's downright ugly-looking. Which was not true of the art he was doing in the '70s and '80s. Maybe some of that is age, but DeCarlo's art never looked that bad near the end of his career, and neither did Samm Schwartz's.

I feel like the distinctiveness and personality isn't really there in the drawing, the way it needs to be in Archie Comics. (They don't have violence to distract us, so if they don't have personality, they have nothing.) And the feeling of "solidity" isn't really there. A lot of the current art reminds me of the art Al Hartley used to turn out when he didn't have a good inker to clean up his stuff, with everybody looking kind of blank and the art looking kind of rough and flat. But at least Hartley could draw strong poses.

I don't think this is necessarily a slam on the artists, because it's obvious that some of this has more to do with the production process than the artists themselves. There's not much doubt that Stan Goldberg can turn out nicer-looking stories than the ones he's doing now.

Forgot to mention the Ethels that look like Reggie wearing a wig, the over exaggerated poses, and the blank stares you pointed out..
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Offline Overkill

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 01:36:21 AM »
You know, the thing I've noticed with Stan Goldberg's art is that it can sometimes look....messy. Not bad mind you, just a bit messy. Like, he puts too many folds and stuff in the clothes, and the character's hairs are sometimes all over the place. When you look back at his older art, things were less sketchy looking. Like, Archie's hair wouldn't have a few random hairs sticking out. It would just be a nice solid smooth line. I think that all Stan has to do to make his art look better is to clean up the lines a bit. Loose the tons of folds in the clothing, and just make the pants look smoother, as well as the shirts.

Also, I do understand that the Archie artists draw TONS of stories, so they may be overwhelmed when drawing and get a bit tired of it. I mean, Archie Comics is the only company I can get books from the comic shop EVERY week. The artists may be running a little ragged. :P
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Offline JimY

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Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 10:58:24 AM »
Fernando Ruiz is one of the new artists that I like. If I had one complaint, it's that he makes the characters smile a bit too much. But other than that, I like his style.

Other than that, I do agree that we need some higher quality artists on Archie. Dan Parent isn't to my taste but I appreciate that he's trying to do something different/unique for the audience.
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Offline Banshee

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 12:37:15 PM »
I will be brutally honest even if I love most of the Archie artists here...

Some can be too simple and less lifelike-looking (like Dan Parent, though he indeed did great art years ago...he still does those colorful, glorious-looking cover arts today. While drawn so pretty-looking, the girls are now too much like posed Barbie dolls, though) while others are TOO wooden and cluttered-looking (like Rex Lindsay, who stuffs in all the unnecessary details and the characters look like they were carved out of wood; Reggie also looks like he's wearing a toupee.:crazy2: )

While Stan Goldberg isn't always perfect, I love how he beautifully and lovingly draws his stories and the characters, too. It's a far cry from what he used to do in his earlier days with Archie...which is far simpler and less professional-looking. In fact, he's one of my today's favorite Archie artists!

Jeff Shultz does his darnedest to reproduce Dan DeCarlo's legendary work, but he always gets drowned out by inkers who make his stuff look too different, IMHO.

IMHO, once he gets from under the unsightly checkered inking, I think Pat or Ted Kennedy is slowly emerging as the next star artist of Archie comics after Dan DeCarlo; I love his expressive gestures and sense of humor, too. I also like how he slips in little homages to Dan DeCarlo and other historical aspects of Archie comics.:)

Like everything else, Archie comics has its ups and downs and that is of course, natural.^_^ 

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Offline billmartinjr

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 03:32:08 PM »
Its not just the art in the stories, either. I really like the older digests that were printed with the cardboard-ish covers and had little drawings and gags all around the cover rather than one big "gag." I know the new "soft" covers with all the ads are probably a lot cheaper to produce, but they could at least keep some of the little things that make the covers stand out..
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Offline JimY

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Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 03:37:54 PM »
I agree with you on this one. The older digest covers with the little extras around the main image were a lot of fun. Even the regular sized monthlies used to have images from the interior around the logo. I miss those.
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Offline Frank

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 03:52:09 PM »
While I am certainly a nostalgic person, I also appreciate new artists.

Personally, I disagree about a decline in the quality of art.  What I see is a change.  Something I think is healthy for the comics and characters.

It's funny how people always look backwards to their favourite artists - I wonder how many people complained about DeCarlo's work back in the 50's and 60's?  Probably a lot of the Lucey fans!

For me, I think the artwork today has a great deal more personality to it.

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Offline Bob M.

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 04:02:39 PM »
I <3 Dan Parent
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Offline addisonian

Re: Deteriorating Art Quality?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 04:22:27 PM »
Quote from: Frank on August 13, 2009, 03:52:09 PM
It's funny how people always look backwards to their favourite artists - I wonder how many people complained about DeCarlo's work back in the 50's and 60's?  Probably a lot of the Lucey fans!

Well, that actually brings up another reason why I personally think the art has declined - fewer distinctive personalities co-existing. Lucey and DeCarlo and Schwartz all got to work in distinctively different styles at the same time.

Personally I think the decline started sometime in the '70s when the company moved closer and closer toward standardizing DeCarlo's style as the "house style." Artists who arrived at the company really were told that they should try to draw like DeCarlo, at least at first. That wasn't new, because when DeCarlo arrived he was told to draw like Bob Montana, but he rebelled and did his own thing.

In recent years they have gotten away from DeCarlo-izing all the art, but it still feels like a lot of the individuality is gone.

Quote from: Brunette on August 13, 2009, 12:37:15 PM
While Stan Goldberg isn't always perfect, I love how he beautifully and lovingly draws his stories and the characters, too. It's a far cry from what he used to do in his earlier days with Archie...which is far simpler and less professional-looking. In fact, he's one of my today's favorite Archie artists!

I (personally, again) prefer his earlier work because it was simpler. I think there are too many folds in the clothes and extraneous details that just look messy. One of the things about good Archie art is that it's simple and stripped-down; notice that when the characters started out they had a lot more pencil mileage in their faces and clothes than they had 10 years later. These stories are about simple, basic emotions and I feel like the art has gotten things backwards, so the clothes look detailed, but the characters' faces and poses look generic.

Again, all personal opinion, not intended to put down anyone's tastes.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 04:32:12 PM by addisonian »
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