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Character Ethics

Started by stylishnotebook, March 24, 2017, 09:30:27 am

Previous topic - Next topic

stylishnotebook

March 24, 2017, 09:30:27 am Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 09:32:25 am by stylishnotebook
Ahoy again! I have a question, just for fun this time.


First, read this story.




























Now, who do you think behaved the worst?

Rank the characters from most to least bad in this story.


Think hard; there's no rush!  :)
 


SAGG

March 24, 2017, 04:47:43 pm #1 Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 04:49:31 pm by SAGG

1) Reggie. Attempted sexual assault (technically), lying about his boat running out of gas.


2) Ronica. Ditching Archie over a fancy swimsuit she doesn't want to get wet. Criticizing Betty for being soft (just before getting her just desserts, btw) after Betty offers to fix their rubber raft for them to use again.


3) Betty, for yes, getting back at Ronica, even though Ronica deserved it. Betty could've simply not said anything about offering to "fix" the raft for them.


4) Archie, for ditching Betty like that after Ronica twisted him around her cute little pinky, asking for forgiveness.


One is the worst, to four, which is the least. Did I miss anything?  :)


stylishnotebook

Thanks for your thoughtful answer! There's no right or wrong way of looking at it, of course. Everyone I ask has their own ranking.


The picture links aren't working on my friend's screen. If anyone here has trouble with them, I'll repost them.

DeCarlo Rules

March 25, 2017, 07:36:11 am #3 Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 02:32:43 pm by DeCarlo Rules
I'll agree with SAGG's assessment, with the caveat of reversing the order of #3 and 4. Betty didn't lie; she DID fix Archie's raft. He never asked how long the repair would hold for. If Archie hadn't been so quick to go running back to Veronica (he did, after all, refer to her as a rat), Betty would have told him that the repair was only temporary. (What did he think, that she carried an inflatables patch-kit in her swimsuit?)

I might add that Archie is so completely reliant on Betty for so many things, and he barely even has any awareness of it. She freely offers her assistance to him in innumerable ways -- anything from auto repair to sewing to baking him goodies to helping him with homework and test preparation, and rarely gets anything more than a passing acknowledgement or brief-then-forgotten thank-yous. Archie is so helpless, so incompetent, in SO many ways that it brings out Betty's natural sympathies and mothering instincts, even though she's learned to expect no real gratitude in return. She's resourceful too, so she'll use whatever she has on hand to get the job done -- and what has she got with her at the beach, but chewing gum? Is it Betty's fault that Archie has become so accustomed to accepting her help and taking it for granted?

A side note here is that this is just one of many, many stories in which Veronica and/or Betty attempt to explain the difference to Archie (or any of the boys, really) between "beachwear" and a "swimsuit", but somehow it seems like they never get it or remember.

The final point here would be -- to Archie, it's only water; and to Veronica, it's only money. He'll dry out and she'll buy another suit.

Shuester


I agree that Reggie is the worst, followed by Veronica, followed by Archie, followed by Betty. Whoever this Ross guy is, he is obviously the best- saving Ronnie just because she needs help, and asking nothing of return. Nice.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 25, 2017, 07:36:11 am
If Archie hadn't been so quick to go running back to Veronica (he did, after all, refer to her as a rat), Betty would have told him that the repair was only temporary. (What did he think, that she carried an inflatables patch-kit in her swimsuit?)



Knowing Betty, I wouldn't be surprised if she did have an inflatables patch-kit with her on the beach. It's Betty. Usually when she fixes something, it ends up better than before.

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: Shuester on March 27, 2017, 03:36:09 am

I agree that Reggie is the worst, followed by Veronica, followed by Archie, followed by Betty. Whoever this Ross guy is, he is obviously the best- saving Ronnie just because she needs help, and asking nothing of return. Nice.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 25, 2017, 07:36:11 am
If Archie hadn't been so quick to go running back to Veronica (he did, after all, refer to her as a rat), Betty would have told him that the repair was only temporary. (What did he think, that she carried an inflatables patch-kit in her swimsuit?)



Knowing Betty, I wouldn't be surprised if she did have an inflatables patch-kit with her on the beach. It's Betty. Usually when she fixes something, it ends up better than before.


From a certain perspective, I think you could arguably say that the way Betty fixed it ended up better than before.  ;D

Who's at fault here? Does Archie ever stop to think about anything? Wouldn't a normal person wonder how an inflatable raft could be fixed in just a couple of minutes at the beach, with no access to say, a store or supplies of any kind? Wouldn't the average person at least take a couple of seconds to look at the repair before attempting to use the raft again? What am I saying?! Most people have this thing called a brain which they use to store what we call "common sense", and use it by reflex. Of course, when Archie is thinking about Veronica it simply wipes every other thought out of his pathetic excuse for a mind.


stylishnotebook

A lot of good speeches in this thread, thank you. Ross is the best, too. I think we can all agree on that.

Mr.Lodge

I think a more appropriate title for the above story would be "Circle Jerk"  ;D

stylishnotebook





Thank you to everyone again for your answers, and I'll add mine.




1. Ross (the best)


2. Veronica


3. Archie


4. Reggie


5. Betty






For my next story questions, I'll borrow something from the gallery.

stylishnotebook

I borrowed this from SAGG's gallery. Thank you!
























Who do you think acted the worst in this story? And who do you feel sorriest for in this story?

DeCarlo Rules

March 29, 2017, 02:28:18 am #10 Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 04:16:11 am by DeCarlo Rules
Oh, the nurses were the worst, without a doubt. They go from ooo'ing and ahh'ing over the beautiful handmade dolls when they think Betty made them, but when she points out that Veronica made several of them, all of a sudden they're singing a different tune - it's "with all her money, a few measly handmade dolls?" Wow. From beautiful to measly, just like that. Okay, technically the curly-haired nurse never really said anything bad about Veronica, it was only the short-haired one that made the remarks, except for a couple of off-panel quips agreeing with those sentiments (that you can't actually tell who they're coming from). I mean yeah, ultimately it's Reggie that delivers the knocks that cause Veronica to burst into tears, but coming from Reggie it just sounds pretty typical for him -- on some other occasion, he'd say something just as nasty about Jughead or Archie, and usually right in front of them. Mr. Insensitive just happened to have perfect timing in this particular instance.

And I know this story isn't that old, but when was it exactly that nurses stopped wearing those old-fashioned uniforms? The 1970s? They've been wearing scrubs for a few decades now, at least.

That said, I almost question the credits on this story. Craig Boldman didn't write a lot of B&V stories, and this one definitely has more of a Kathleen Webb ring to it.

I feel sorry for Archie. He couldn't get a word in edgewise between Reggie and Jughead! (... but seriously... he doesn't say anything, or try to defend her at all? That's interesting.) And again, seriously... is this some kind of trick question? I should feel sorry for Betty, because no one pays attention when she tries to speak up in Veronica's defense? Or Jughead, for... who the heck knows?

You know, there's a number of these type of stories where Mr. Lodge (usually) says something along the lines of he likes to see Veronica hanging out with Betty, because she's a good influence, and helps bring out Veronica's better self. Well, Hiram wasn't around to say it in this story, but this one certainly exemplifies what he's talking about. Veronica wouldn't have done anything by herself, but she lets Betty talk her into it pretty easily, then she feels so good about it that she makes a mental note to also have Mr. Lodge make a nice donation, and doesn't even want to make a show of it by appearing at the hospital when Betty donates the dolls. So it's understandable when her good vibes are crushed by overhearing the nurses' talk.

Also, a small but interesting thing to note here in the first panel -- Veronica is carrying FIVE packages herself, so Carruthers only gets tapped to carry the overflow of an additional THREE. I mean, he IS part of the Lodges' domestic staff, so if she wanted to feel superior, she could have made him carry them ALL.

stylishnotebook

Thanks for your reply. You have such insights. This story is written by Craig Boldman. He's credited in Betty and Veronica 225.

I've heard that nurses in some hospitals still have the option of wearing traditional dresses if they want, but I think artists just like to draw them that way because it looks more classic.


I think we're supposed to assume the curly haired nurse is the one responding off-panel.

Shuester

I'd say that Betty and Veronica are technically equally ethical in this story, but Veronica's actions overall count for more. Betty does everything that we've come to expect from Betty- she defends Veronica, and she makes dolls for the girls in the hospital. But because we don't expect that to come from Veronica, it makes all of her actions even better. She didn't just make the dolls. She also decided- without telling Betty or asking for any attention- to have an anonymous donation sent to the hospital. She turned down the chance to receive credit for her efforts by not delivering the dolls in person. And she didn't complain out loud to anyone when the nurses immediately bashed her work. The beginning of this story gives us classic "rich girl Ronnie" vibes, but most of the story shows that she really does have a heart of gold. It is very rare for Veronica to act so selflessly, but she pulls it off rather well.


I do wish the story ended on a happier note.

DeCarlo Rules

Apparently Ronnie's got a long memory for these beach shenanigans... (I guess she had to wait until she remembered to wear her actual swimsuit).
This time it looks like the inflatable will be punctured on porpoise:D  Payback, thy name is Veronica.


stylishnotebook

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 30, 2017, 06:17:07 am
Apparently Ronnie's got a long memory for these beach shenanigans... (I guess she had to wait until she remembered to wear her actual swimsuit).
This time it looks like the inflatable will be punctured on porpoise:D






Ouch!  ;)  Very lovely cover find.Thank you all for your opinions on the last story. My ranking would be a little different.


1. Betty (best)

2. Veronica

3. Nurses


4. Archie

5. Reggie

6. Jughead


My answer to my second question would be Betty. Even though we don't agree on the morality of some characters, I appreciate the dissenting viewpoints that are expressed so well here.


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