One thing I thought could really level the company was Sega pulling its license for Sonic comics. Whatever you think of them, they have a very solid fanbase of video game nerds and people who want furry/anthro comics. So then this news/rumor mill bit ended up on multiple websites:
https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/01/archie-sonic-comics-very-likely-cancelled/
Supposedly, there was an update from Archie saying the Sonic comics were only delayed until April. However, as far as I can tell, those are only solicitations for a single wave of new issues. The telling fact is you still can't subscribe to Sonic comics on Archie's website. If there wasn't a licensing problem, why would they remove the option to subscribe? Seems like a really good way to cut off future revenue streams. The subscriptions have been described as "temporarily unavailable." It's currently February, unlike when that article was first published. Seems like a really long time to me. You can also still subscribe to titles that had even longer delays, so that's not an explanation that makes sense. As we know, Archie doesn't like to talk about titles that are on the chopping block at all. Look at titles like New Crusaders who we were told would come back.
Honestly, as much as people here like the Riverdale gang comics, I don't know if Archie will be able to survive financially without those titles.
One time in the store, where I used to purchase Archie digests, I had to take a 'Sonic' book to get the deal of 3 digests for $10. As the digests sell in Canada for $6.99, taking a 3rd book that I didn't want still paid off. I will say one thing for the sonic books, the art is good, but not my taste in comics. It's a good example of a book that people complain about, but is a good seller for the publisher. I do agree that Archie losing this source of revenue is going to hurt. I guess we'll have to see if Archie Publications give the title the 'dreaded vote of confidence'. One has to wonder if the reboot of Archie titles was not just a big ploy to give them time to make the company look attractive to a potential buyer. It would be interesting to see what a Warner Bros. or Disney would do with it.
Quote from: Ottawagrant on February 09, 2017, 11:35:47 AM
One time in the store, where I used to purchase Archie digests, I had to take a 'Sonic' book to get the deal of 3 digests for $10. As the digests sell in Canada for $6.99, taking a 3rd book that I didn't want still paid off. I will say one thing for the sonic books, the art is good, but not my taste in comics. It's a good example of a book that people complain about, but is a good seller for the publisher. I do agree that Archie losing this source of revenue is going to hurt. I guess we'll have to see if Archie Publications give the title the 'dreaded vote of confidence'. One has to wonder if the reboot of Archie titles was not just a big ploy to give them time to make the company look attractive to a potential buyer. It would be interesting to see what a Warner Bros. or Disney would do with it.
One of the most annoying things about Archie Comics in recent years is how untransparent they are. A lot of signs point to the company not performing well, but they don't have to let us know because they have no stockholders to answer to. So they obfuscate all bad news. It's pretty annoying, so we probably won't know what's really going on for a while.
About selling the company. Current management has certainly deteriorated this company's value considerably over its reign, like ridiculously deteriorated from the huge publishing operation it once was. If they wanted to sell it for a decent amount of money, they should have probably done so like right after Jon Goldwater inherited his stake. So I'd say other companies jumping at the chance to buy it are probably somewhat diminished now.
Quote from: Ottawagrant on February 09, 2017, 11:35:47 AM
One has to wonder if the reboot of Archie titles was not just a big ploy to give them time to make the company look attractive to a potential buyer.
I've been wondering this for the past few years. It would explain how short-sighted their strategies have been and their poor execution.
I hope it's the end. They signed off on this nauseous tv show. I see now that they never really cared about their characters.
Never say die.
Don't dig Archie's grave too soon.
Hell--wee might even see a Disney buyout.
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 08, 2017, 06:50:55 PM
One thing I thought could really level the company was Sega pulling its license for Sonic comics. Whatever you think of them, they have a very solid fanbase of video game nerds and people who want furry/anthro comics. So then this news/rumor mill bit ended up on multiple websites:
https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/01/archie-sonic-comics-very-likely-cancelled/ (https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/01/archie-sonic-comics-very-likely-cancelled/)
Supposedly, there was an update from Archie saying the Sonic comics were only delayed until April. However, as far as I can tell, those are only solicitations for a single wave of new issues. The telling fact is you still can't subscribe to Sonic comics on Archie's website. If there wasn't a licensing problem, why would they remove the option to subscribe? Seems like a really good way to cut off future revenue streams. The subscriptions have been described as "temporarily unavailable." It's currently February, unlike when that article was first published. Seems like a really long time to me. You can also still subscribe to titles that had even longer delays, so that's not an explanation that makes sense. As we know, Archie doesn't like to talk about titles that are on the chopping block at all. Look at titles like New Crusaders who we were told would come back.
Honestly, as much as people here like the Riverdale gang comics, I don't know if Archie will be able to survive financially without those titles.
Maybe the reason sonic the hedgehog comics are about to be cancelled in issue 300 is because archie comics need to really focus more on their original archie brand rather than the licensing ones.
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 09, 2017, 11:10:31 PMOne of the most annoying things about Archie Comics in recent years is how untransparent they are. A lot of signs point to the company not performing well, but they don't have to let us know because they have no stockholders to answer to. So they obfuscate all bad news. It's pretty annoying, so we probably won't know what's really going on for a while.About selling the company. Current management has certainly deteriorated this company's value considerably over its reign, like ridiculously deteriorated from the huge publishing operation it once was. If they wanted to sell it for a decent amount of money, they should have probably done so like right after Jon Goldwater inherited his stake. So I'd say other companies jumping at the chance to buy it are probably somewhat diminished now.
Well at least the archie comics series gain positive reception heck people like them however if the company reac bankruptcy well then maybe IDW will buy the rights and revive the archie and the riverdale series as a historical period comedy series taking place in the late 40s and the early 50s.
Quote from: carrotz on February 10, 2017, 03:22:52 AMI hope it's the end. They signed off on this nauseous tv show. I see now that they never really cared about their characters.
Look i know you guys don't like the tv show like me but it gains positive reviews and will be renewed for a 2nd season heck archie comics is becoming successful
QuoteMaybe the reason sonic the hedgehog comics are about to be cancelled in issue 300 is because archie comics need to really focus more on their original archie brand rather than the licensing ones.
Those comics draw in a significant audience they wouldn't be getting otherwise. Getting rid of them would be really stupid. They probably make it easier to print regular Archie stuff. My guess is if they are canceled, it's because Sega decided to pull the plug. Not sure why they would want to do that, but maybe Archie's doing so badly they could get a better deal from someone else. Also I'm pretty sure they didn't like Archie's legal team getting schooled by Ken Penders so bad it was like an episode of Perry Mason.
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 10, 2017, 08:59:10 AM
Those comics draw in a significant audience they wouldn't be getting otherwise. Getting rid of them would be really stupid. They probably make it easier to print regular Archie stuff.[/font][/size]
Yeah ,I think they are going to do that.
[/font]
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 10, 2017, 08:59:10 AM [/size]My guess is if they are canceled, it's because Sega decided to pull the plug. Not sure why they would want to do that, but maybe Archie's doing so badly they could get a better deal from someone else. Also I'm pretty sure they didn't like Archie's legal team getting schooled by Ken Penders so bad it was like an episode of Perry Mason.
yeah maybe i think Sega decides to end their licensing deal with archie comics for some unknown reason
Love Archie comics. :smitten: Love the artists. :smitten: Absolutely HATE the assholes that run it. :tickedoff:
Quote from: Captain Jetpack on February 10, 2017, 07:14:49 AM
Don't dig Archie's grave too soon.
Hell--wee might even see a Disney buyout.
I highly doubt that. Disney already owns the biggest comic book publisher in America, Marvel Comics. And yet... they are licensing the publishing of classic Disney characters out to other comics publishers like IDW, Fantagraphics, Joe Books LTD and Papercutz. It's true that Marvel Comics does publish a few Disney-related comics, but nearly all of them are limited series, and they sell poorly compared with other titles Marvel publishes.
Would anyone even
want to see a Disney buyout of Archie Comic Publications? I've seen no evidence that Disney really even knows how to market a line of all-ages comics itself. So, no...
bad idea. Nor do I think Disney would even be interested. They bought Marvel only because of the wealth of characters they own, and the movie and merchandising potential those characters represent. Archie? Nope.
A better potential buyout would be if Scholastic Books were interested.
If Sonic does get canceled. It could go to IDW and continue from where they left off, couldn't they?
And it's not like this is the first time I've heard Archie Comics might be going under. Buncha fake news everywhere. :)
Quote from: PTF on February 11, 2017, 09:37:17 PM
If Sonic does get canceled. It could go to IDW and continue from where they left off, couldn't they?
And it's not like this is the first time I've heard Archie Comics might be going under. Buncha fake news everywhere. :)
How many times has Archie announced/admitted a title was canceled?
Quote from: PTF on February 11, 2017, 09:37:17 PM
If Sonic does get canceled. It could go to IDW and continue from where they left off, couldn't they?
Nope
Quote from: terrence12 on February 12, 2017, 07:41:27 AM
Quote from: PTF on February 11, 2017, 09:37:17 PM
If Sonic does get canceled. It could go to IDW and continue from where they left off, couldn't they?
Nope
Why would Archie have control of Sega's IP exactly?
Been hearing about the end of Archie Comics for years now, and they're still here. Even though RIVERDALE's ratings aren't good it's getting mostly positive reviews and that can't hurt.
I think Archie will be here as long as they want to. Maybe it won't be the Archie the old school fans prefer, but Archie Comics will most likely exist for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
I think Archie will be here as long as they want to. Maybe it won't be the Archie the old school fans prefer, but Archie Comics will most likely exist for the foreseeable future.
So, following that logic, if they are publishing fewer new comics and selling less copies of them than they were say, 10 or 20 years ago, it's because they "want" to? As in, the people who buy (or probably more to the point,
don't buy) Archie Comics have no bearing on whether or not Archie Comics is going to be around for the
next 10 or 20 years? 75 years may be a great run in the comics biz, but nothing is forever. Dinosaurs and the Roman Empire both had a great run too, but they're no longer around. Neither is vaudeville, pulp fiction magazines, or Big Little Books. Yeah, they were all great in their time, but that time passed.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 12, 2017, 11:19:22 AM
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
I think Archie will be here as long as they want to. Maybe it won't be the Archie the old school fans prefer, but Archie Comics will most likely exist for the foreseeable future.
So, following that logic, if they are publishing fewer new comics and selling less copies of them than they were say, 10 or 20 years ago, it's because they "want" to? As in, the people who buy (or probably more to the point, don't buy) Archie Comics have no bearing on whether or not Archie Comics is going to be around for the next 10 or 20 years? 75 years may be a great run in the comics biz, but nothing is forever. Dinosaurs and the Roman Empire both had a great run too, but they're no longer around. Neither is vaudeville, pulp fiction magazines, or Big Little Books. Yeah, they were all great in their time, but that time passed.
totally agree; I didn't GUARANTEE they'll be around forever, but I think they're doing better right now than they were a couple of years ago. I'd say they have the potential to survive and I happen to think they will. And when you say they're publishing fewer comics etc, they're still publishing more right now than they were a couple of years ago, when it was down to Archie and a bi-monthly (if we were lucky) Betty and Veronica as their only 32 pagers (sporadic horror comics notwithstanding).
Not saying they're killing it now but compared to then, they're doing great.
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
Not saying they're killing it now but compared to then, they're doing great.
Is that why they keep cancelling all the products they solicit? The rate of cancelled solicitations is ghastly. About the only thing that they seem to be doing great on is recycling. Reprinting the same material over and over again in multiple formats. If all you're doing is saying "Oh look, they used to have only classic Archie and classic B&V floppy comics back in 2015, and now they have New Archie, New Jughead, New B&V, and New Josie. So they must be doing awesome now, right?" Well, maybe if you don't count the number of issues they actually come out with over the course of a year (I guess this would be a good time
not to mention the Archie Horror titles). But of course you're only comparing to 2015, not slightly earlier when they still had Life With Archie, Kevin Keller, Archie & Friends, or going back a couple more years, classic Betty, Veronica, Jughead and Sabrina. Digest sales have slipped in the last few years too, and that's ACP's real bread-and-butter money. And we're still waiting for that third issue of Adam Hughes' B&V, which launched with great hoopla last summer. Yeah, doing just great.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 12, 2017, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
Not saying they're killing it now but compared to then, they're doing great.
Is that why they keep cancelling all the products they solicit? The rate of cancelled solicitations is ghastly. About the only thing that they seem to be doing great on is recycling. Reprinting the same material over and over again in multiple formats. If all you're doing is saying "Oh look, they used to have only classic Archie and classic B&V floppy comics back in 2015, and now they have New Archie, New Jughead, New B&V, and New Josie. So they must be doing awesome now, right?" Well, maybe if you don't count the number of issues they actually come out with over the course of a year (I guess this would be a good time not to mention the Archie Horror titles). But of course you're only comparing to 2015, not slightly earlier when they still had Life With Archie, Kevin Keller, Archie & Friends, or going back a couple more years, classic Betty, Veronica, Jughead and Sabrina. Digest sales have slipped in the last few years too, and that's ACP's real bread-and-butter money. And we're still waiting for that third issue of Adam Hughes' B&V, which launched with great hoopla last summer. Yeah, doing just great.
All good points. I didn't join the forum to slam Archie Comics. Besides you're doing a great job of it already! LOL
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 12, 2017, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 11:23:58 AM
Not saying they're killing it now but compared to then, they're doing great.
Is that why they keep cancelling all the products they solicit? The rate of cancelled solicitations is ghastly. About the only thing that they seem to be doing great on is recycling. Reprinting the same material over and over again in multiple formats. If all you're doing is saying "Oh look, they used to have only classic Archie and classic B&V floppy comics back in 2015, and now they have New Archie, New Jughead, New B&V, and New Josie. So they must be doing awesome now, right?" Well, maybe if you don't count the number of issues they actually come out with over the course of a year (I guess this would be a good time not to mention the Archie Horror titles). But of course you're only comparing to 2015, not slightly earlier when they still had Life With Archie, Kevin Keller, Archie & Friends, or going back a couple more years, classic Betty, Veronica, Jughead and Sabrina. Digest sales have slipped in the last few years too, and that's ACP's real bread-and-butter money. And we're still waiting for that third issue of Adam Hughes' B&V, which launched with great hoopla last summer. Yeah, doing just great.
All good points. I didn't join the forum to slam Archie Comics. Besides you're doing a great job of it already! LOL
Well, that is definitely the illusion that they are attempting to create for the company's image.
"The NEW Archie Comics is on the move! There's no stopping us now!" Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they are definitely having problem delivering on their promises and getting new product into print. And there is the stink of desperation in the air, as if they're hanging on by their fingernails, pushing RIVERDALE as the salvation of the company. But if ACP are really The Comeback Kids they're trying to hype themselves as being, then shouldn't more and more new products be arriving in the marketplace every few months, as success builds on success? In reality, I think the sales of New Riverdale comics are
not building as they'd hoped (after optimistically hoping that they'd create some synergy by adding more new titles) -- not even holding steady at a modest level, but eroding with every passing issue. They're far from being out of the danger zone of becoming extinct. REGGIE & ME was originally envisioned as a new ongoing series, then almost immediately cut back to a 5-issue miniseries. I wouldn't be surprised to find that both JUGHEAD and JOSIE will not be around by next year. The fact that the last couple of months' solicitations contained a lot of one-shots indicates to me they are already fishing for a replacement for one or both of those titles.
On a semi related note, where do I look up comic sales? I want to know if another comic that I like non Archie related is selling well or not.
Quote from: irishmoxie on February 12, 2017, 05:06:16 PM
On a semi related note, where do I look up comic sales? I want to know if another comic that I like non Archie related is selling well or not.
You can check www.comichron.com which has the monthly Diamond sales charts and historical data, too.
I would heart broken if Archie Comics didn't come out anymore. Since I joined in 2013. I feel like something was missing in my life. My mom got the red Marriage book for Christmas one year & I have been a huge fan ever since.
So I was in Walmart today. All the Archie digests were gone from the digest racks at the checkouts. Don't know if this is the case anywhere else, but I do recall them having Archie digests the last time I was in there.
They're popping up again in my grocery store, which is a plus. I dont have a Walmart. How to get them into Walgreeens in the NA market is another question. Digests only, not the 32 pagers. Of course I'd be happy if the floppies showed up as well.
In the 30 months or so since I became interested in Archie Comics, I don't think I've seen any digests in any grocery story I've been in. I've seen them at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and just recently, Target, but those are the only places. No local drugstore franchises or convenience stories.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 10:37:59 AM
In the 30 months or so since I became interested in Archie Comics, I don't think I've seen any digests in any grocery story I've been in. I've seen them at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and just recently, Target, but those are the only places. No local drugstore franchises or convenience stories.
I saw them at Wegman's (western NY) when I crossed the border last week; Up here in Canada Shopper's drug mart has them, as does a grocery store called Sobey's. Sometimes 7-11 and Walmart always has them. I think that there will always be a call for Archie comics as they are the only all ages, family friendly comic that people (parents) have come to trust.
Quote from: VintageJon on February 14, 2017, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 10:37:59 AM
In the 30 months or so since I became interested in Archie Comics, I don't think I've seen any digests in any grocery story I've been in. I've seen them at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and just recently, Target, but those are the only places. No local drugstore franchises or convenience stories.
I saw them at Wegman's (western NY) when I crossed the border last week; Up here in Canada Shopper's drug mart has them, as does a grocery store called Sobey's. Sometimes 7-11 and Walmart always has them. I think that there will always be a call for Archie comics as they are the only all ages, family friendly comic that people (parents) have come to trust.
Funny you should mention that... Archie's formerly unassailable reputation as a purveyor of all-ages titles (eh... "Million Moms" aside)... I wonder how things like the Archie Horror titles (which may well fly under most parents radar as imperceptible, with little chance most parents whose children are consumers of ACP's all-ages titles will ever become aware of them), and RIVERDALE might affect those parents' perception of ACP as a publisher.
The TV series is much more likely to impact public perception of ACP's comics, since television reaches a
much wider audience than the direct-market floppy comics do, and if there isn't an immediate connection in parents minds between the name Riverdale and the names Archie, Jughead, Betty & Veronica, then plastering ads for the show all over the covers (and interiors) of the digests will certainly rectify that lack of recognition. Furthermore, placing those ads in the digests seems to imply that the TV show would be appropriate viewing for the same audiences reading those digests, so I wonder what some parents of say, an 8-12 year-old reader might think about that after viewing the show.
I saw a Jughead digest by the checkout at a Gerbes grocery store in Missouri back in June 2015 which sparked my interest. Mainly I was thinking, "They still make those???" And this caused me to dig out my old childhood Betty and Veronica digests from 1997. When I left Missouri in 2016, they had a lot of them in the magazine aisle but not near the checkout anymore. They would keep a decent amount of back stock going back a couple of months. In Nebraska, I see them at Barnes and Noble sometimes but mainly it's just the trade paperbacks. I remember buying the digests from grocery stores in the 90s. They were featured right near the checkout. And I would buy Cheryl Blossom and Sabrina floppies from Waldenbooks.
Archie made a huge deal about getting a new distribution deal with Walmart. Remember it was suspected that absurd Kickstarter was more about acquiring funds to allow the Walmart deal and new title relaunches to happen simultaneously. So if that's gone, I think that's pretty striking honestly. Although, one Walmart not having them on one day isn't enough to say that Archie was axed from Walmart.
In my 11 years of loving Archie Comics, one thing has become apparent to me. They are not so family friendly anymore. Sure, the digests might be, but how often do we see new content in those that have quite a few sexual innuendos? Also, they are even reprinting some of the Reboot stuff in the digests (though that's not so obvious to a casual). Hell, they are even releasing a digest (finally a single) that will (most likely) contain nothing but rebooted content. I feel like the show (like the reboot) is a last ditch attempt to the company. And with Sonic not going to be published here real soon (sonic makes up quite a bit of revenue), I'm not sure where the company will go from here. Sure, we have what, 8 digests now (including the Riverdale one), but how long do you see some of those lasting? Sure, one could argue that while sales on some are steady, most of the sales are declining. I mean, the 75th anniversary digest is supposed to end its run at Issue #12 (no big surprise). The Riverdale one, I'm not so sure about. It could get 1 issue, or 10 or 20 or it could last a decade. I don't know!
Lets talk about the other Digests now.
Archie Double Digest: Issue #277
Betty & Veronica Double Digest: Issue #252
World of Archie Double Digest: Issue #67
Jughead & Archie Double Digest: Issue #25
B&V & Friends Double Digest Issue #253
Archie Funhouse Double Digest Issue #25
75th Anniversary Jumbo Digest Issue #7
Riverdale Digest: Issue #Upcoming
Those are what we have so far for the digests. How far they are going to go, I do NOT know. As for the Floppies?
Riverdale: Issue #Upcoming
Archie: Issue #18
Betty & Veronica: Issue #3
Jughead: Issue #13
Josie and the Pussycats: Issue #5
Little Archie: Issue #Upcoming
Afterlife with Archie: Issue #12
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina: Issue #8
Reggie and Me: Issue #3
There are also a lot of One shots coming out too. ACP just signed a deal with WB for more comics and shows (but who knows if that'll follow through). I'm still holding out for a Dilton and Me floppy!
One more thing before I go. I have created a Discord for this server. Not sure how many of you would want to join, but I will leave the link here for whomever wants it:
https://discord.gg/7sCjDa3
QuoteIn my 11 years of loving Archie Comics, one thing has become apparent to me. They are not so family friendly anymore.
I'm not heteronormative so I don't really care about Archie Comics being family friendly (a lot of people read it for innuendo anyways), but it's transformed into something it wasn't before and something completely alienating to it's original core audience which is pretty bad imo. There's a way to expand your market without destroying everything. Marvel Comics made similar mistakes recently too, and now they're back tracking like crazy to keep their old fans because the comics side of their business was tanking hardcore.
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 14, 2017, 07:41:56 PM
QuoteIn my 11 years of loving Archie Comics, one thing has become apparent to me. They are not so family friendly anymore.
I'm not heteronormative so I don't really care about Archie Comics being family friendly (a lot of people read it for innuendo anyways), but it's transformed into something it wasn't before and something completely alienating to it's original core audience which is pretty bad imo. There's a way to expand your market without destroying everything. Marvel Comics made similar mistakes recently too, and now they're back tracking like crazy to keep their old fans because the comics side of their business was tanking hardcore.
In my opinion, I don't really see Marvel backtracking as you say. I see them wandering into uncharted territory, and loosing a LOT of subscribers!
Quote from: The Downloader on February 14, 2017, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on February 14, 2017, 07:41:56 PM
QuoteIn my 11 years of loving Archie Comics, one thing has become apparent to me. They are not so family friendly anymore.
I'm not heteronormative so I don't really care about Archie Comics being family friendly (a lot of people read it for innuendo anyways), but it's transformed into something it wasn't before and something completely alienating to it's original core audience which is pretty bad imo. There's a way to expand your market without destroying everything. Marvel Comics made similar mistakes recently too, and now they're back tracking like crazy to keep their old fans because the comics side of their business was tanking hardcore.
In my opinion, I don't really see Marvel backtracking as you say. I see them wandering into uncharted territory, and loosing a LOT of subscribers!
Marvel is doing a plan to reboot their comics back to like they were before everythong go so messed up recently. They saw how much money DC Comics started making after they did the same thing.
Marvel made the screw up of thinking SJWs and people from Tumblr actually buy comic books. They don't, at least not in any meaningful numbers that can positively benefit market share. I don't know what Archie's deal is, but they went from a huge publishing operation with a firm grip on an 11 year old female demographic to publishing niche titles in comic book stores and now pushing a trashy edgelord TV show that undermines what was formerly their core market. I don't think they have any clue what the hell they are doing or trying to accomplish in regards to long term planning. I mean I kind of hate how protective Disney is of their IP with kids, but there's firm business rationale behind that.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: VintageJon on February 14, 2017, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 10:37:59 AM
In the 30 months or so since I became interested in Archie Comics, I don't think I've seen any digests in any grocery story I've been in. I've seen them at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and just recently, Target, but those are the only places. No local drugstore franchises or convenience stories.
I saw them at Wegman's (western NY) when I crossed the border last week; Up here in Canada Shopper's drug mart has them, as does a grocery store called Sobey's. Sometimes 7-11 and Walmart always has them. I think that there will always be a call for Archie comics as they are the only all ages, family friendly comic that people (parents) have come to trust.
Funny you should mention that... Archie's formerly unassailable reputation as a purveyor of all-ages titles (eh... "Million Moms" aside)... I wonder how things like the Archie Horror titles (which may well fly under most parents radar as imperceptible, with little chance most parents whose children are consumers of ACP's all-ages titles will ever become aware of them), and RIVERDALE might affect those parents' perception of ACP as a publisher.
The TV series is much more likely to impact public perception of ACP's comics, since television reaches a much wider audience than the direct-market floppy comics do, and if there isn't an immediate connection in parents minds between the name Riverdale and the names Archie, Jughead, Betty & Veronica, then plastering ads for the show all over the covers (and interiors) of the digests will certainly rectify that lack of recognition. Furthermore, placing those ads in the digests seems to imply that the TV show would be appropriate viewing for the same audiences reading those digests, so I wonder what some parents of say, an 8-12 year-old reader might think about that after viewing the show.
It has occurred to me that perhaps Archie Comics is using the Riverdale TV show to destroy the comics (with help from the producers/writers of the program). I certainly hope I am wrong about that. I've been a fan of Archie Comics since I was about 5 (I'm 34 now). Parents shouldn't be allowing their 12 year old children to be watching Riverdale. I know if I had seen it when I was 12, I probably would have stopped reading the comics at that point.
Quote from: Upsiditus on February 14, 2017, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: VintageJon on February 14, 2017, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 14, 2017, 10:37:59 AM
In the 30 months or so since I became interested in Archie Comics, I don't think I've seen any digests in any grocery story I've been in. I've seen them at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and just recently, Target, but those are the only places. No local drugstore franchises or convenience stories.
I saw them at Wegman's (western NY) when I crossed the border last week; Up here in Canada Shopper's drug mart has them, as does a grocery store called Sobey's. Sometimes 7-11 and Walmart always has them. I think that there will always be a call for Archie comics as they are the only all ages, family friendly comic that people (parents) have come to trust.
Funny you should mention that... Archie's formerly unassailable reputation as a purveyor of all-ages titles (eh... "Million Moms" aside)... I wonder how things like the Archie Horror titles (which may well fly under most parents radar as imperceptible, with little chance most parents whose children are consumers of ACP's all-ages titles will ever become aware of them), and RIVERDALE might affect those parents' perception of ACP as a publisher.
The TV series is much more likely to impact public perception of ACP's comics, since television reaches a much wider audience than the direct-market floppy comics do, and if there isn't an immediate connection in parents minds between the name Riverdale and the names Archie, Jughead, Betty & Veronica, then plastering ads for the show all over the covers (and interiors) of the digests will certainly rectify that lack of recognition. Furthermore, placing those ads in the digests seems to imply that the TV show would be appropriate viewing for the same audiences reading those digests, so I wonder what some parents of say, an 8-12 year-old reader might think about that after viewing the show.
It has occurred to me that perhaps Archie Comics is using the Riverdale TV show to destroy the comics (with help from the producers/writers of the program). I certainly hope I am wrong about that. I've been a fan of Archie Comics since I was about 5 (I'm 34 now). Parents shouldn't be allowing their 12 year old children to be watching Riverdale. I know if I had seen it when I was 12, I probably would have stopped reading the comics at that point.
What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"? Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.
Quote from: steveinthecity on February 15, 2017, 12:13:26 AM
What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"? Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.
Does it matter what the rationale is if the outcome is the same? But I think this is the result of a current trend of creative people who get in control of media franchises with a leftist political mindset. They see an old timey set-up like Archie Comics where the biggest problem is who is going to prom with Archie in a town like Riverdale where nothing bad happens, bascially Americana if we want to put it simply, and their first knee jerk reaction is, "Oh boy, I better deconstruct this to show how evil and bad everything really is," and we end up with a show like this taking a big crap on the original spirt of Archie Comics as a whole and the entire ideal of Americana to prove something to said hack creative person's political sensibilities. Deconstruction is about destroying things, so yeah the intent is to destroy Archie Comics even if subconsciously. They can't let Archie be Archie, because of that cultural Marxist nagging in the back of their head where things like simple Americana are no longer allowed. No we need a show that exposes how BAD Riverdale really is. A lot of people read Archie Comics for escapism, not that other crap.
Of course you'll just say, "it's just a TV show, you still have the comics." It's called damaging your brand. They had specific branding before this. They went to absurd lengths to protect that branding before Jon Goldwater. I didn't always agree with what they did, but it was something they cared about seemingly and now there's a huge shift. Also most of the comics as we knew them are going away in favor of what they're doing now. Frankly, I don't see the point of Archie Comics without Montana/DeCarlo/etc. art style.
I used to read tons of Marvel and DC comics. Now I'm down to 3 or 4 comics from each of their respective universes. That's part of the reason I got interested in Archie Comics late in 2014 - because I finally had the time, and a void to fill in my comics reading. But just about 8 months later, ACP decided to reboot everything too. DC's Rebirth didn't really help their universe overall, because it's still the same "New 52" universe (only now with the pre-52 DCU Superman in it, which just makes things unnecessarily convoluted). Yeah, they renumbered everything again from #1, but it's not like they really changed anything about how they're writing or drawing the characters, per se. Aside from the numbering, and cancelling some series and replacing them with others, it's pretty much the same deal at DC as it's been since September 2011. They may have shifted some creative teams around, and some titles may be better post-Rebirth, and others worse. Fortunately, DC publishes other lines of comics (DC Kids, Vertigo, and some other titles) that aren't part of their main universe, so that gives me a few more to read than just 3 or 4 titles. I'm not averse to trying a new series they put out either (that goes for Marvel too) if it looks interesting and I like the characters or artwork, but I am rarely finding anything worth sticking with when I sample them.
With ACP's New Riverdale it seems all they did is make less funny, more boring stories with artwork that (overall) I don't much care for, and writing even less so. I guess I just have to be satisfied with the 5-pagers in the digests now.
They are destroying the comics with the tv show. It is making people hate characters. People are saying they hate Chuck now. I don't hate anyone yet but I don't like Betty after what she did to Chuck. All the years I liked her are over. I cannt forget her torturing him or the actress tweeting it was "girl power." I don't want to see Betty again on the show or in the comics now, and it's all because of Riverdale.
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
Been hearing about the end of Archie Comics for years now, and they're still here. Even though RIVERDALE's ratings aren't good it's getting mostly positive reviews and that can't hurt.
I think Archie will be here as long as they want to. Maybe it won't be the Archie the old school fans prefer, but Archie Comics will most likely exist for the foreseeable future.
He does have a point.
Quote from: terrence12 on February 15, 2017, 04:40:33 AM
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 12, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
Been hearing about the end of Archie Comics for years now, and they're still here. Even though RIVERDALE's ratings aren't good it's getting mostly positive reviews and that can't hurt.
I think Archie will be here as long as they want to. Maybe it won't be the Archie the old school fans prefer, but Archie Comics will most likely exist for the foreseeable future.
He does have a point.
You mean they want to get out of the comics business, and just be in the business of licensing out their IP? Well, it's a no-overhead enterprise, I guess, which could be what they're looking for. On the other hand, the characters are nowhere near as iconic as something like Batman or Spider-Man, where you can morph them into different things and they're still somewhat recognizable, if only because of the basic premise and costumes. Archie Comics are mostly tied to the style of cartooning, and as soon as you lost that, they start to get a little blurry as far as recognizing them as the same characters. They aren't as adaptable as the better-known superheroes, because the things that define them as characters are more nebulous than costumes and superpowers.
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
They are destroying the comics with the tv show. It is making people hate characters. People are saying they hate Chuck now. I don't hate anyone yet but I don't like Betty after what she did to Chuck. All the years I liked her are over. I cannot forget her torturing him or the actress tweeting it was "girl power." I don't want to see Betty again on the show or in the comics now, and it's all because of Riverdale.
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.
I agree that the show is destroying the characters, but it doesn't make me hate the comics' characters, just the CW's
Riverdale characters,
those are the ones I don't like at all.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 15, 2017, 04:08:49 AM
...With ACP's New Riverdale it seems all they did is make less funny, more boring stories with artwork that (overall) I don't much care for, and writing even less so. I guess I just have to be satisfied with the 5-pagers in the digests now.
Yep, same here.
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.
There might be some power to taking lesser known or unknown Archie/MLJ properties that lack emotional connections with today's audiences and recreate them with modern upgrades. Stuff like Sam Hill, That Wilkins Boy, Katie Keene, Ginger, Hangman... Whether updated MLJ characters appeal to modern audiences or whether they're updated well is another matter.
Quote from: JonInIowaCity on February 15, 2017, 01:47:48 PM
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.
There might be some power to taking lesser known or unknown Archie/MLJ properties that lack emotional connections with today's audiences and recreate them with modern upgrades. Stuff like Sam Hill, That Wilkins Boy, Katie Keene, Ginger, Hangman... Whether updated MLJ characters appeal to modern audiences or whether they're updated well is another matter.
Doubt it. The whole point in licensing comic book characters is getting a
pre-sold audience that wants to see the movie or TV show
because it's an adaptation of something familiar that they've heard of. And THEN they go and change everything about it. It's not that the comic books have these oh-so-brilliant, so-original ideas that nobody in the movie or TV business could come up with. At least in most cases. There are exceptions, but those tend to be smaller projects that are quirky and generally don't make much of an impact in monetary success. You get things like
The Rocketeer or
Mystery Men, that might be good movies, but relative flops by the standards of the industry. Why not just make an original film like
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, rather than licensing some of the original stuff that inspired it like
Captain Midnight, if not enough people would recognize the latter? ACP's characters are so obscure that it's easier for Warner/DC or Disney/Marvel to dredge up something relatively obscure from their libraries of
thousands of characters, that will still be more unique and high-concept than anything you can find at ACP. Yeah, even though Marvel is huge now with movie & TV adaptations, the odds of seeing a
Millie the Model or
Patsy & Hedy movie or TV show are pretty low, or a WB production based on
Debbi's Dates or
Swing With Scooter.
I mean,
Sam Hill... what the hell is Sam Hill but an imitation in comic book form of the same kind of hard-boiled detective character seen on dozens of TV shows and movies, and in pulp fiction? There must be a dozen other characters of the same type that would benefit from name recognition among the public, so why wouldn't a movie or TV producer just do an adaptation of them? Or if not, just an original character in the same mold? What's the advantage? Why adapt
Ginger when you can do
Gidget or
Tammy? If no one's heard of the characters being adapted, the 'high concept' idea better be pretty unique for a movie or TV producer to do all that work, and then give up some of the merchandising profits to the IP owner.
What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"? Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.
The ideas that Archie Comics are "boring" and "one-dimensional" seem to be floating around the set of the Riverdale Show. One of the basic premises of philosophy is that if you start with false premises, you usually get erroneous conclusions.
[/size] Archie Comics seem to be doing terribly financially at the moment. I don't understand that. Personally I think they are 10 times more interesting than all Superhero comics put together. Clearly Archie Comics were extremely popular in 1970 (that must have been about the peak of their success. They were certainly very successful throughout the 1946-1970. What has caused the decline? Bart Beaty claims bigotry accounts for this, but I strongly disagree. I don't see any evidence that Archie Comics were more bigoted than their competitors.
[/size] If Archie Comics were to be discontinued it would certainly be the end of an era. I would certainly be unhappy to see it go, but I would move on with my life. My 2nd favorite comics, by a substantial margin, Calvin & Hobbes, stopped being produced back in 1995. I got over it.
[/size] Calvin & Hobbes should have continued. If Watterson didn't want to continue writing, he should have let someone else do it, but I'm sure he never seriously considered that. It would have been very interesting to see how Calvin would handle the technological advances since 1995.
[/size] I don't see how Archie writers could ever run out of ideas. Stories just about new technology alone should keep them busy.
[/size] If the show is successful, I think Archie Comics continue. If the show fails, things could get very ugly.
Quote from: Upsiditus on February 15, 2017, 08:41:40 PM
What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"? Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.
The ideas that Archie Comics are "boring" and "one-dimensional" seem to be floating around the set of the Riverdale Show. One of the basic premises of philosophy is that if you start with false premises, you usually get erroneous conclusions.
Archie Comics seem to be doing terribly financially at the moment. I don't understand that. Personally I think they are 10 times more interesting than all Superhero comics put together. Clearly Archie Comics were extremely popular in 1970 (that must have been about the peak of their success. They were certainly very successful throughout the 1946-1970. What has caused the decline? Bart Beaty claims bigotry accounts for this, but I strongly disagree. I don't see any evidence that Archie Comics were more bigoted than their competitors.
If Archie Comics were to be discontinued it would certainly be the end of an era. I would certainly be unhappy to see it go, but I would move on with my life. My 2nd favorite comics, by a substantial margin, Calvin & Hobbes, stopped being produced back in 1995. I got over it.
Calvin & Hobbes should have continued. If Watterson didn't want to continue writing, he should have let someone else do it, but I'm sure he never seriously considered that. It would have been very interesting to see how Calvin would handle the technological advances since 1995.
I don't see how Archie writers could ever run out of ideas. Stories just about new technology alone should keep them busy.
If the show is successful, I think Archie Comics continue. If the show fails, things could get very ugly.
Asking what the benefit of running your company out of business is a rhetorical question. Doesn't mean that's not occurring due to incompetence or people placing stupid wishes or agendas above profit. I mean look what happened to Yahoo. The company is pretty much going out of business because of the actions of CEO Marissa Mayer. Now if you asked her if she tried running the corporation out of business on purpose, she's going to say no, but her idiotic management style definitely lead to that conclusion pretty much due to her tenure.
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot... (snip)... Frankly, I don't see the point of Archie Comics without Montana/DeCarlo/etc. art style.
This in a nutshell. No one wanted or needed New Coke, either. I understand sales were slugggish, but from my outsiders perspective the fault lies more with ACP management than the creative staff.
Quote from: steveinthecity on February 16, 2017, 12:36:25 AM
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot... (snip)... Frankly, I don't see the point of Archie Comics without Montana/DeCarlo/etc. art style.
This in a nutshell. No one wanted or needed New Coke, either. I understand sales were slugggish, but from my outsiders perspective the fault lies more with ACP management than the creative staff.
The style and type of humor is everything. Just as no one wants to see Dick Tracy or Calvin and Hobbes or Peanuts continued after the original creator retired in a totally different style. With Dick Tracy and some other comic strips (Popeye, Alley Oop, etc.) the strip continued on after the original creator retired but drawn by another artist, in a style imitating that of the original artist, just as Archie continued after (and even before) Bob Montana died, drawn by different artists but in a similar style.
With Calvin and Hobbes or Peanuts, I think most people would consider a continuation tantamount to sacrilege, probably even if it were done in a similar style. I remember when the Dick Tracy movie came out and Disney produced a comic book drawn in a completely different, modernist style by Kyle Baker. With all respect to Kyle Baker's talent, I just didn't see the point, and I can't see the point in New Riverdale comics. The characters, such as they are, are completely subordinate to the style. That's what made these things successful originally and what is largely responsible for them lasting for decades.
While it's true that you can point to other comics like Superman, Batman or Spider-Man that continued successfully for decades while radically changing the style of art over the years, these are characters in which the
concept is more important than the style, and they retain a certain continuity with the original versions via iconic visuals like costumes, and the accumulated details of their past adventures. They can change the costumes temporarily, but when they change them so radically that they aren't recognizable as the characters they originally started out as, they lose a big segment of their audience. The all-black Spider-Man costume shook up the status quo for that character for a little while, but after a short time reverted to the classic costume, because that's what the audience identifies as the 'real' Spider-Man. Changing the costumes, identities, and gender or ethnicity of their original characters, and/or and rebooting them to change details of their past history, may temporarily shake up the 'ho-hum' of the status quo for a lot of Marvel and DC characters, but leads to an alienation of the traditional audience over the long run. Reboots are even worse than other types of changes, as they immediately draw a line of demarcation in the sand. They immediately signal to the traditional audience the end of any continuity with the previous version of a character, like the period at the end of a sentence.
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on February 15, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
They are destroying the comics with the tv show. It is making people hate characters. People are saying they hate Chuck now. I don't hate anyone yet but I don't like Betty after what she did to Chuck. All the years I liked her are over. I cannot forget her torturing him or the actress tweeting it was "girl power." I don't want to see Betty again on the show or in the comics now, and it's all because of Riverdale.
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.
I agree that the show is destroying the characters, but it doesn't make me hate the comics' characters, just the CW's Riverdale characters, those are the ones I don't like at all.
I don't want to associate the Riverdale Betty with the comics but Riverdale Betty looks and acts like the comics Betty. Even her crazy moments.
If there is a new Sabrina show I don't think it will be spun off from Riverdale. It will be building on the audience of the Melissa Joan Hart show instead, even if the tone is darker. That one was the big success. I don't think a Josie show has a chance because they would probably want to use the girls from Riverdale or some other black girls and for old Josie fans that is too different. They aren't popular enough to get their own show just based on their Riverdale parts. Most shows that are more popular than Riverdale have never even gotten spinoff shows. Jon Goldwater sounds delusional.
Asking what the benefit of running your company out of business is a rhetorical question. Doesn't mean that's not occurring due to incompetence or people placing stupid wishes or agendas above profit. I mean look what happened to Yahoo. The company is pretty much going out of business because of the actions of CEO Marissa Mayer. Now if you asked her if she tried running the corporation out of business on purpose, she's going to say no, but her idiotic management style definitely lead to that conclusion pretty much due to her tenure.
I had in mind a quote John Lennon made about the Beatles sessions for the Let It Be LP (originally the LP was supposed to be called "Get Back"). He said they made the worst music possible (paraphrase) so the band could break up. I was reminded of that quote after seeing the Riverdale TV show. Also, Archie Comics is clearly in financial trouble.
Quote from: Upsiditus on February 16, 2017, 03:48:16 PM
I had in mind a quote John Lennon made about the Beatles sessions for the Let It Be LP (originally the LP was supposed to be called "Get Back"). He said they made the worst music possible (paraphrase) so the band could break up. I was reminded of that quote after seeing the Riverdale TV show. Also, Archie Comics is clearly in financial trouble.
You can hardly compare Archie Comic Publications to the Beatles, in terms of success, wealth, or creativity. When Lennon made that statement, the members of the band were the most successful musicians in the world, and already rich enough to spend the rest of their lives in comfort without ever having to work another day of their lives. And the four were not getting along creatively, so they no longer enjoyed their work together. Lennon had come to the reasonable conclusion that it was just time to "let it be". Who needs the pressure of constantly having to top yourself until you fade from popularity with the public? The Beatles did not so much self-destruct as just lose interest and walk away. Not unlike say, Bill Watterson, when he quit Calvin and Hobbes at the top of his game.
From Bleeding Cool, dated 2-16-17...
QuoteWe've been wondering what Archie Comics may be replacing Sonic The Hedgehog with...
In a press release, and probably being talked about at ComicsPRO right now, Marvel and Archie have announced a publishing collaboration. No, not Punisher Meets Archie 2, but Marvel Comics Digest, a collection of Marvel's all-ages titles packaged in a digest format and sold on the newsstand, in "big box" stores as well as comic retailers. Six to be published each year, with four in 2017 starting with MARVEL COMICS DIGEST: Starring The Amazing Spider-Man.
Others starring Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Black Widow, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the X-Men are to follow.
(https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/C4y8wXuXUAQx_zC-600x810.jpg)
Could have something to do with Marvel's sales being the worst they've had in years right now. And just to clarify, I believe they're saying "six"
issues "to be published each year", not six ongoing digest titles.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 17, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
... And just to clarify, I believe they're saying "six" issues "to be published each year", not six ongoing digest titles.
Might this take the place of a vanishing Sonic digest?
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.
Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.
It's not about liking what they're doing. This is an observation on how well they are doing. Over the past seven years, the company has been rapidly shrinking and on a clear downward trajectory. So the question is I guess is how can they keep this company alive when their core product keeps failing and momentary gains are wiped out in a short period? I guess now they are receiving some kind of corporate welfare from Marvel. Maybe that will be enough who knows, but I was pretty sure Sonic the Hedgehog was a very important part of their business model before this.
Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.
PREACH!
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 19, 2017, 10:04:31 AM
Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.
PREACH!
Archie Comics has been around for what? Almost 80 years? "If you don't like the comics, don't read them" seems a pretty shallow view point when they went from one of the biggest publishers of comics in the world to a skeleton crew constantly blowing deadlines and canceling comics under current management. If this company was public, everyone running it would have been sent out the door already.
Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 19, 2017, 10:04:31 AM
Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.
PREACH!
Archie comics never went adults-only before. That is what will end them. No one who watches the show will be able to look at the old digest stories or even the reboot stories the same way. They will seem too tame and boring by comparison, even though the show is bad. They have Riverdale ads in the digests that are meant for kids and like was said above, parents might stop buying them if they find out, or kids will start watching the show and then they will think the comics are boring too. They can't go on another 75 years by making edgy adult Archie stories. After Riverdale ends every adult Archie story after will seem like a rehash and people will get bored. If it was a superhero story it could go on longer, but a love triangle and soap opera can only be done so many times in a "serious" way.
So no Sonic comics in May solicitations:
http://www.archiefans.com/news-and-new-releases/archie-comics-for-may-2017/
Doesn't look good imo. :(
Doom, Gloom & Rumors Of Boom.
Stop being so darn negative. :crazy2:
Quote from: Captain Jetpack on February 22, 2017, 07:15:27 AM
Doom, Gloom & Rumors Of Boom.
Stop being so darn negative. :crazy2:
So Sonic Comics getting canceled is a good thing, and I'm not allowed to talk about it? How about you stop being a brown noser?
Quote from: Captain Jetpack on February 22, 2017, 07:15:27 AM
Doom, Gloom & Rumors Of Boom.
Stop being so darn negative. :crazy2:
The only people who are negative are the people who actually care about what Archie Comics
used to be about. If we're negative, it's only because we really want ACP to be publishing GOOD Archie Comics, and that doesn't really seem to be happening, apart from about 20 new pages a month spread over 4 digest titles. Instead, they're screwing around trying to find out if some imaginary market exists for Archie among adult readers who don't like the traditional Archie comics - and in the process, trying to turn the characters into something they're not, and were never intended to be.
The alternative is worse -- we could just accept that the old ACP is already dead, and stop paying attention to what's going on with the company and ignore them.
Archie's been falling pretty consistently for ages- not only is print media faltering, but so are comics as a whole, and then you get into the fact that Archie's a distant, DISTANT competitor of the big guns. Honestly, their sales were falling for so long that they tried every gimmick they could to staunch the flow. Crossovers, celebrity guest-appearances, clumsy tie-ins and more. Some of it worked- they drew attention, and some sales (Archie vs. Predator, for example). But a lot of it came off as desperate.
It seemed like a rather blatant attempt to make the company look more popular than it was, and to sell the brand. Especially like that stretch where it seemed every other month or so, Archie was doing something to show up in the news (GAY KID!! GAY WEDDING!! GAY COMIC BOOK! ARCHIE DIES!!).
The new books seemed like a breath of fresh air, with some talented creators behind them, as sad as I was to see them stop producing original content in their ORIGINAL style. However... with the sales falling so quickly, it's pretty clear this was all "fad"-based thinking, and without a superstar like Fiona Staples on Archie, people aren't as interested. Especially when the story arcs haven't been terribly interesting in a while- I'm sorry, but I really can't get into the Cheryl/Band/Mayoral Election stuff as much as the Teen Antics that were going on in the early issues.
Possibly losing Sonic (and of course Archie will be quiet about this, announcing that "We have exciting new plans!" before quietly dropping it. Remember how Jughead was supposed to come back right away? That took YEARS!) is another bad sign, as that seemed to be a pretty steady seller (given than the friggin' games themselves haven't been top sellers for eons).
Archie still has a future as an IP, I guess. The sales of the main title can possibly be kept around their current level, especially if they get another hot artist on the book. But their Digests are probably losing ground & sales all the time (though you can still find them in Canada- where we're this weird cultural backwater where we even had Video Stores up until a couple of years ago :)), and that's the only thing really keeping them afloat.
As a comic book company? I can see them quietly shuttering their original content, and only releasing collections and/or one-shot specials. THAT at least has some potential, and is probably cheaper than busting out monthly stuff.
I dunno... it'll be sad to see them go. But I find myself getting fewer and fewer of their books- I was a routine Digest buyer even a few years ago, until the content switched to the more "modern" stuff that I didn't like so much. And I can really see them eventually closing down, even though they've been like cockroaches, surviving the ebbs and flows of the industry all these decades.
Quote from: Jabroniville on February 23, 2017, 12:44:29 AM
As a comic book company? I can see them quietly shuttering their original content, and only releasing collections and/or one-shot specials. THAT at least has some potential, and is probably cheaper than busting out monthly stuff.
^^^
THIS. Or possibly even licensing the reprints out to other companies, like they've already done with IDW and Dark Horse.
QuoteThe sales of the main title can possibly be kept around their current level, especially if they get another hot artist on the book.
You said it yourself.The sales are falling quickly. In another thread the numbers were posted: Archie at 11,000 now. Hiring a hot artist this late wouldn't bring in enough sales to make up for the money they would have to pay them. Without a miracle, the reboots will all get cancelled by next year.
I wish the people who think Archie can slip out of this would say why. With the reboots and digests failing, how will Archie make money unless it's sold off to Warner brothers or some other big company? I wish they had done that before they decided to make the tv show. Real fans would have accepted Archie's reduced circumstances and been content with a small stream of quality new stories. They didn't need Archie to be a top selling reboot or hit tv show. Most of the people raving about those things now will get bored of Archie fast once the show ends, or earlier if it runs too long, and move on to something else. Archie will be left a discarded husk, unless the old fans can overlook the damage. I hope they can, but I would not blame them if they can't.
Quote
I dunno... it'll be sad to see them go.
The best way to make sure fans won't be sad to see you go is to start sucking hard and keep getting worse till they want you out of your misery. That's one thing to be glad for.
Quotethough they've been like cockroaches
Oh, I'll stop. ::)
The numbers for February's direct sales figures are out. Here's how Archie is doing:
Archie #17 = 11K
This number held from the preceding issue but down from the 13K the title had been at a couple of months back. I've mentioned before that January is a notoriously bad month for publishing in general. I'd wondered if the dip in this title's sales was due to the usual January publishing doldrums or part of an overall gradual decline. I'm still not convinced one way or the other. Has "Reboot Fatigue" set in? How does this title refresh itself and attract new readers?
Jughead #13 = 6K
This number is also being held from the preceding issue. This book HAS to be in trouble. The pre-reboot Jughead sold about 1.5 K when it was cancelled. Keep in mind the current creative team is paid significantly more than the pre-reboot crew. This book is also currently bolstered by THREE variant covers (Another expense!) a month! Taking those factors into consideration, this book is probably drifting very close to where its predecessor was in terms of profitability. The preceding Jughead title was published by the previous regime of Archie Comics out of pride and stubbornness. They believed Archie Comics should ALWAYS publish a Jughead title. They also published the thirty-two page books even at a loss because they provided fresh material that would later be funneled into the far, far more profitable digests. From their perspective, the digests paid for the thirty-two's.
Josie #4 = 6.5 K
This one suffered a heavy drop of about 2K from the preceding issue. Ouch! Bad, bad news for a title in its fourth issue. I expect this one to be retroactively declared a "mini-series" soon... or go on "hiatus."
These were the only Archie titles I could find on February's sales charts. Wow!
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on March 08, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
The numbers for February's direct sales figures are out. Here's how Archie is doing:
Josie #4 = 6.5 K
This one suffered a heavy drop of about 2K from the preceding issue. Ouch! Bad, bad news for a title in its fourth issue. I expect this one to be retroactively declared a "mini-series" soon... or go on "hiatus."
These were the only Archie titles I could find on February's sales charts. Wow!
I have a feeling it's going to be declared a mini-series too because the plot is moving so fast. I think they planned ahead for this in case it did not sell well. It seems like this is the fate of most 'Josie' projects after the original run anyway...sad.
Quote from: CAPalace on March 09, 2017, 12:37:44 AM
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on March 08, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
The numbers for February's direct sales figures are out. Here's how Archie is doing:
Josie #4 = 6.5 K
This one suffered a heavy drop of about 2K from the preceding issue. Ouch! Bad, bad news for a title in its fourth issue. I expect this one to be retroactively declared a "mini-series" soon... or go on "hiatus."
These were the only Archie titles I could find on February's sales charts. Wow!
I have a feeling it's going to be declared a mini-series too because the plot is moving so fast. I think they planned ahead for this in case it did not sell well. It seems like this is the fate of most 'Josie' projects after the original run anyway...sad.
Too bad if that happens because I'm really enjoying it.
Floppy comic books are a dead-end for Archie Comics, unless they're prepared to invent a whole slew of new characters, titles, and genres (or at least license some viable existing IPs).
The humor genre just doesn't work for the existing customer base, and the younger demographic just isn't buying those format comics, or frequenting comic book shops in enough numbers.
They need to figure out how to do an end-run around the comic shop market distribution system to reconnect to the traditional younger readers. Gee, if they could figure out a way to get into the school system like Scholastic Books does, that would be perfect.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 09, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
The humor genre just doesn't work for the existing customer base, and the younger demographic just isn't buying those format comics, or frequenting comic book shops in enough numbers.
I guess the lemming droids are only capable of handling the mindless super hero drivel being cranked out for their 3rd-grade reading level basement-dweller audience. :idiot2:
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on March 09, 2017, 06:02:17 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 09, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
The humor genre just doesn't work for the existing customer base, and the younger demographic just isn't buying those format comics, or frequenting comic book shops in enough numbers.
I guess the lemming droids are only capable of handling the mindless super hero drivel being cranked out for their 3rd-grade reading level basement-dweller audience. :idiot2:
Sure, that's really helpful. Always phrase your opinions in the most offensive way possible, because let's face it -- name-calling is the highest form of expressing your intellectual maturity. Anyone who'd read "mindless super hero drivel" must be a "3rd-grade reading level basement-dweller" -- and of course, those readers have just as high an opinion of adults who read Archie Comics, to be fair.
I am a little confused by something.... Are there no more new comics being created with the traditional Archie art and characters? I have read through the posts and this is the impression I'm under. If that is the case, when was the last traditional, new story printed?
Quote from: VintageJon on March 10, 2017, 02:12:41 PM
I am a little confused by something.... Are there no more new comics being created with the traditional Archie art and characters? I have read through the posts and this is the impression I'm under. If that is the case, when was the last traditional, new story printed?
There are still new 5 page stories in every new digest issue, all of them written and drawn by Dan Parent (along with the covers). Since there are 4 new digest issues that come out every month, that means 48 new 5-page stories per year (unless they decide to cut back), or 240 pages of new Archie/Betty/Veronica/Jughead stories per year. They are always the first story in every digest issue.
There are no remaining standard format comic book stories in the traditional Archie style. The last new one was released last Fall -- the ARCHIE MEETS RAMONES one-shot comic book drawn by Gisele Lagace. Prior to that, the last issue of a regular-format ACP ongoing comic series in the traditional Archie style was BETTY AND VERONICA #278 (released on October 21st, 2015). The covers of that issue (and there are 6 different variant covers) say that it's issue #625 (that was arrived at by adding the cumulative numbering of ARCHIE'S GIRLS BETTY AND VERONICA, which ran 347 issues from 1950-1987, to the second series which began with a new #1 in June 1987). Prior to that, ARCHIE had ended its long run which began in 1943 with the July 2015 issue, #666 (which also had 6 different covers).
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 10, 2017, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: VintageJon on March 10, 2017, 02:12:41 PM
I am a little confused by something.... Are there no more new comics being created with the traditional Archie art and characters? I have read through the posts and this is the impression I'm under. If that is the case, when was the last traditional, new story printed?
There are still new 5 page stories in every new digest issue, all of them written and drawn by Dan Parent (along with the covers). Since there are 4 new digest issues that come out every month, that means 48 new 5-page stories per year (unless they decide to cut back), or 240 pages of new Archie/Betty/Veronica/Jughead stories per year. The are all the first story in every digest issue.
There are no remaining standard format comic book stories in the traditional Archie style. The last new one was released last Fall -- the ARCHIE MEETS RAMONES one-shot comic book drawn by Gisele Lagace.
Thank you for clearing that up for me! I seem to recall that even years ago the story at the front would be a little more contemporary in tone and content. I guess that was to balance out the 1950's/60's stories inside.
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on March 08, 2017, 08:45:29 PM
The numbers for February's direct sales figures are out. Here's how Archie is doing:
Archie #17 = 11K
This number held from the preceding issue but down from the 13K the title had been at a couple of months back. I've mentioned before that January is a notoriously bad month for publishing in general. I'd wondered if the dip in this title's sales was due to the usual January publishing doldrums or part of an overall gradual decline. I'm still not convinced one way or the other. Has "Reboot Fatigue" set in? How does this title refresh itself and attract new readers?
Jughead #13 = 6K
This number is also being held from the preceding issue. This book HAS to be in trouble. The pre-reboot Jughead sold about 1.5 K when it was cancelled. Keep in mind the current creative team is paid significantly more than the pre-reboot crew. This book is also currently bolstered by THREE variant covers (Another expense!) a month! Taking those factors into consideration, this book is probably drifting very close to where its predecessor was in terms of profitability. The preceding Jughead title was published by the previous regime of Archie Comics out of pride and stubbornness. They believed Archie Comics should ALWAYS publish a Jughead title. They also published the thirty-two page books even at a loss because they provided fresh material that would later be funneled into the far, far more profitable digests. From their perspective, the digests paid for the thirty-two's.
Josie #4 = 6.5 K
This one suffered a heavy drop of about 2K from the preceding issue. Ouch! Bad, bad news for a title in its fourth issue. I expect this one to be retroactively declared a "mini-series" soon... or go on "hiatus."
These were the only Archie titles I could find on February's sales charts. Wow!
Wow, the Pussycats can't catch a break. Pretty depressing considering this version is closer to the real Pussycats than Josie and the Affirmative Action Hires form Riverdale.