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Could this be the end of Archie Comics?

Started by Alexandra Cabot, February 08, 2017, 06:50:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

DeCarlo Rules

#45
Quote from: JonInIowaCity on February 15, 2017, 01:47:48 PM
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM
I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.


There might be some power to taking lesser known or unknown Archie/MLJ properties that lack emotional connections with today's audiences and recreate them with modern upgrades. Stuff like Sam Hill, That Wilkins Boy, Katie Keene, Ginger, Hangman... Whether updated MLJ characters appeal to modern audiences or whether they're updated well is another matter.

Doubt it. The whole point in licensing comic book characters is getting a pre-sold audience that wants to see the movie or TV show because it's an adaptation of something familiar that they've heard of. And THEN they go and change everything about it. It's not that the comic books have these oh-so-brilliant, so-original ideas that nobody in the movie or TV business could come up with. At least in most cases. There are exceptions, but those tend to be smaller projects that are quirky and generally don't make much of an impact in monetary success. You get things like The Rocketeer or Mystery Men, that might be good movies, but relative flops by the standards of the industry. Why not just make an original film like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, rather than licensing some of the original stuff that inspired it like Captain Midnight, if not enough people would recognize the latter? ACP's characters are so obscure that it's easier for Warner/DC or Disney/Marvel to dredge up something relatively obscure from their libraries of thousands of characters, that will still be more unique and high-concept than anything you can find at ACP. Yeah, even though Marvel is huge now with movie & TV adaptations, the odds of seeing a Millie the Model or Patsy & Hedy movie or TV show are pretty low, or a WB production based on Debbi's Dates or Swing With Scooter.

I mean, Sam Hill... what the hell is Sam Hill but an imitation in comic book form of the same kind of hard-boiled detective character seen on dozens of TV shows and movies, and in pulp fiction? There must be a dozen other characters of the same type that would benefit from name recognition among the public, so why wouldn't a movie or TV producer just do an adaptation of them? Or if not, just an original character in the same mold? What's the advantage? Why adapt Ginger when you can do Gidget or Tammy? If no one's heard of the characters being adapted, the 'high concept' idea better be pretty unique for a movie or TV producer to do all that work, and then give up some of the merchandising profits to the IP owner.

Upsiditus


What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"?  Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.



  The ideas that Archie Comics are "boring" and "one-dimensional" seem to be floating around the set of the Riverdale Show.  One of the basic premises of philosophy is that if you start with false premises, you usually get erroneous conclusions. 
[/size]    Archie Comics seem to be doing terribly financially at the moment.  I don't understand that.  Personally I think they are 10 times more interesting than all Superhero comics put together.   Clearly Archie Comics were extremely popular in 1970 (that must have been about the peak of their success.  They were certainly very successful throughout the 1946-1970.  What has caused the decline?  Bart Beaty claims bigotry accounts for this, but I strongly disagree.  I don't see any evidence that Archie Comics were more bigoted than their competitors. 
[/size]     If Archie Comics were to be discontinued it would certainly be the end of an era.  I would certainly be unhappy to see it go, but I would move on with my life.  My 2nd favorite comics, by a substantial margin, Calvin & Hobbes,  stopped being produced back in 1995.  I got over it. 
[/size]     Calvin & Hobbes should have continued.  If Watterson didn't want to continue writing, he should have let someone else do it, but I'm sure he never seriously considered that.  It would have been very interesting to see how Calvin would handle the technological advances since 1995.   
[/size]      I don't see how Archie writers could ever run out of ideas.  Stories just about new technology alone should keep them busy. 
[/size]       If the show is successful, I think Archie Comics continue.  If the show fails, things could get very ugly.

Alexandra Cabot

Quote from: Upsiditus on February 15, 2017, 08:41:40 PM

What's the benefit financially or creatively "destroying ACP"?  Wondering where your thoughts are on this point.



  The ideas that Archie Comics are "boring" and "one-dimensional" seem to be floating around the set of the Riverdale Show.  One of the basic premises of philosophy is that if you start with false premises, you usually get erroneous conclusions. 
    Archie Comics seem to be doing terribly financially at the moment.  I don't understand that.  Personally I think they are 10 times more interesting than all Superhero comics put together.   Clearly Archie Comics were extremely popular in 1970 (that must have been about the peak of their success.  They were certainly very successful throughout the 1946-1970.  What has caused the decline?  Bart Beaty claims bigotry accounts for this, but I strongly disagree.  I don't see any evidence that Archie Comics were more bigoted than their competitors. 
     If Archie Comics were to be discontinued it would certainly be the end of an era.  I would certainly be unhappy to see it go, but I would move on with my life.  My 2nd favorite comics, by a substantial margin, Calvin & Hobbes,  stopped being produced back in 1995.  I got over it. 
     Calvin & Hobbes should have continued.  If Watterson didn't want to continue writing, he should have let someone else do it, but I'm sure he never seriously considered that.  It would have been very interesting to see how Calvin would handle the technological advances since 1995.   
      I don't see how Archie writers could ever run out of ideas.  Stories just about new technology alone should keep them busy. 
       If the show is successful, I think Archie Comics continue.  If the show fails, things could get very ugly.

Asking what the benefit of running your company out of business is a rhetorical question.  Doesn't mean that's not occurring due to incompetence or people placing stupid wishes or agendas above profit.  I mean look what happened to Yahoo.  The company is pretty much going out of business because of the actions of CEO Marissa Mayer.  Now if you asked her if she tried running the corporation out of business on purpose, she's going to say no, but her idiotic management style definitely lead to that conclusion  pretty much due to her tenure.


steveinthecity

Quote from: Alexandra Cabot... (snip)...      Frankly, I don't see the point of Archie Comics without Montana/DeCarlo/etc. art style.
This in a nutshell.  No one wanted or needed New Coke, either. I understand sales were slugggish, but from my outsiders perspective the fault lies more with ACP management than the creative staff. 
Comics!

DeCarlo Rules

#49
Quote from: steveinthecity on February 16, 2017, 12:36:25 AM
Quote from: Alexandra Cabot... (snip)...      Frankly, I don't see the point of Archie Comics without Montana/DeCarlo/etc. art style.
This in a nutshell.  No one wanted or needed New Coke, either. I understand sales were slugggish, but from my outsiders perspective the fault lies more with ACP management than the creative staff.

The style and type of humor is everything. Just as no one wants to see Dick Tracy or Calvin and Hobbes or Peanuts continued after the original creator retired in a totally different style. With Dick Tracy and some other comic strips (Popeye, Alley Oop, etc.) the strip continued on after the original creator retired but drawn by another artist, in a style imitating that of the original artist, just as Archie continued after (and even before) Bob Montana died, drawn by different artists but in a similar style.

With Calvin and Hobbes or Peanuts, I think most people would consider a continuation tantamount to sacrilege, probably even if it were done in a similar style. I remember when the Dick Tracy movie came out and Disney produced a comic book drawn in a completely different, modernist style by Kyle Baker. With all respect to Kyle Baker's talent, I just didn't see the point, and I can't see the point in New Riverdale comics. The characters, such as they are, are completely subordinate to the style. That's what made these things successful originally and what is largely responsible for them lasting for decades.

While it's true that you can point to other comics like Superman, Batman or Spider-Man that continued successfully for decades while radically changing the style of art over the years, these are characters in which the concept is more important than the style, and they retain a certain continuity with the original versions via iconic visuals like costumes, and the accumulated details of their past adventures. They can change the costumes temporarily, but when they change them so radically that they aren't recognizable as the characters they originally started out as, they lose a big segment of their audience. The all-black Spider-Man costume shook up the status quo for that character for a little while, but after a short time reverted to the classic costume, because that's what the audience identifies as the 'real' Spider-Man. Changing the costumes, identities, and gender or ethnicity of their original characters, and/or and rebooting them to change details of their past history, may temporarily shake up the 'ho-hum' of the status quo for a lot of Marvel and DC characters, but leads to an alienation of the traditional audience over the long run. Reboots are even worse than other types of changes, as they immediately draw a line of demarcation in the sand. They immediately signal to the traditional audience the end of any continuity with the previous version of a character, like the period at the end of a sentence.

carrotz


Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on February 15, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: carrotz on February 15, 2017, 04:39:58 AM

They are destroying the comics with the tv show. It is making people hate characters. People are saying they hate Chuck now. I don't hate anyone yet but I don't like Betty after what she did to Chuck. All the years I liked her are over. I cannot forget her torturing him or the actress tweeting it was "girl power." I don't want to see Betty again on the show or in the comics now, and it's all because of Riverdale.


I don't think they can do new shows about anything except Sabrina. The other characters aren't familiar to people and they are not very good except for Josie, but I don't think a Riverdale Josie spinoff will happen.


I agree that the show is destroying the characters, but it doesn't make me hate the comics' characters, just the CW's Riverdale characters, those are the ones I don't like at all.


I don't want to associate the Riverdale Betty with the comics but Riverdale Betty looks and acts like the comics Betty. Even her crazy moments.

carrotz


If there is a new Sabrina show I don't think it will be spun off from Riverdale. It will be building on the audience of the Melissa Joan Hart show instead, even if the tone is darker. That one was the big success. I don't think a Josie show has a chance because they would probably want to use the girls from Riverdale or some other black girls and for old Josie fans that is too different. They aren't popular enough to get their own show just based on their Riverdale parts. Most shows that are more popular than Riverdale have never even gotten spinoff shows. Jon Goldwater sounds delusional.

Upsiditus



Asking what the benefit of running your company out of business is a rhetorical question.  Doesn't mean that's not occurring due to incompetence or people placing stupid wishes or agendas above profit.  I mean look what happened to Yahoo.  The company is pretty much going out of business because of the actions of CEO Marissa Mayer.  Now if you asked her if she tried running the corporation out of business on purpose, she's going to say no, but her idiotic management style definitely lead to that conclusion  pretty much due to her tenure.



  I had in mind a quote John Lennon made about the Beatles sessions for the Let It Be LP (originally the LP  was supposed to be called "Get Back").  He said they made the worst music possible (paraphrase) so the band could break up.  I was reminded of that quote after seeing the Riverdale TV show.  Also, Archie Comics is clearly in financial trouble. 

DeCarlo Rules

#53
Quote from: Upsiditus on February 16, 2017, 03:48:16 PM
  I had in mind a quote John Lennon made about the Beatles sessions for the Let It Be LP (originally the LP  was supposed to be called "Get Back").  He said they made the worst music possible (paraphrase) so the band could break up.  I was reminded of that quote after seeing the Riverdale TV show.  Also, Archie Comics is clearly in financial trouble. 

You can hardly compare Archie Comic Publications to the Beatles, in terms of success, wealth, or creativity. When Lennon made that statement, the members of the band were the most successful musicians in the world, and already rich enough to spend the rest of their lives in comfort without ever having to work another day of their lives. And the four were not getting along creatively, so they no longer enjoyed their work together. Lennon had come to the reasonable conclusion that it was just time to "let it be". Who needs the pressure of constantly having to top yourself until you fade from popularity with the public? The Beatles did not so much self-destruct as just lose interest and walk away. Not unlike say, Bill Watterson, when he quit Calvin and Hobbes at the top of his game.

DeCarlo Rules

#54
From Bleeding Cool, dated 2-16-17...

QuoteWe've been wondering what Archie Comics may be replacing Sonic The Hedgehog with...

In a press release, and probably being talked about at ComicsPRO right now, Marvel and Archie have announced a publishing collaboration. No, not Punisher Meets Archie 2, but Marvel Comics Digest, a collection of Marvel's all-ages titles packaged in a digest format and sold on the newsstand, in "big box" stores as well as comic retailers. Six to be published each year, with four in 2017 starting with MARVEL COMICS DIGEST: Starring The Amazing Spider-Man.

Others starring Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, Black Widow, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the X-Men are to follow.



Could have something to do with Marvel's sales being the worst they've had in years right now. And just to clarify, I believe they're saying "six" issues "to be published each year", not six ongoing digest titles.

Fernando Ruiz

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 17, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
... And just to clarify, I believe they're saying "six" issues "to be published each year", not six ongoing digest titles.


Might this take the place of a vanishing Sonic digest?




Smurf

I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.

Alexandra Cabot

Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.

It's not about liking what they're doing.  This is an observation on how well they are doing.  Over the past seven years, the company has been rapidly shrinking and on a clear downward trajectory.  So the question is I guess is how can they keep this company alive when their core product keeps failing and momentary gains are wiped out in a short period?  I guess now they are receiving some kind of corporate welfare from Marvel.  Maybe that will be enough who knows, but I was pretty sure Sonic the Hedgehog was a very important part of their business model before this.


Vegan Jughead

Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.


PREACH!

Alexandra Cabot

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on February 19, 2017, 10:04:31 AM
Quote from: Smurf on February 18, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
I would love a dollar for every time I heard that Archie comics was on its way out. The last time I checked they are still here and selling comics. I may not like the people running the company, but the bottom line is they re the ones running it and all I can do as a fan is either not read the comics or get enjoyment out of what they do distribute.


PREACH!

Archie Comics has been around for what? Almost 80 years?  "If you don't like the comics, don't read them" seems a pretty shallow view point when they went from one of the biggest publishers of comics in the world to a skeleton crew constantly blowing deadlines and canceling comics under current management.  If this company was public, everyone running it would have been sent out the door already.


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