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  • DeCarlo Rules: What I don't understand is why they're trying to discourage subscriptions to B&V FRIENDS Jumbo digest. It's been published at 10 times per year frequency for the last 3 years -- just like the other B&V jumbo digest. So if they're both published just as often, why do they offer a choice of 10 issue or 20 issue subscriptions for BETTY & VERONICA, but only a 6 issue subscription for B&V FRIENDS? You can get a 12-issue subscription to B&V FRIENDS on the website, but if I remember correctly, the printed ad for subs only offers the 6-issue sub option. Why isn't it the same option as the other digests (10 issues or 20 issues), if they're all published 10 times a year? And they ARE.
    Today at 01:11:44 PM
  • BettyReggie: Archie was just on The Simpsons on FX.
    July 20, 2018, 06:50:15 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "Summer Nights" from Riverdale One-Shot: [link]
    July 19, 2018, 08:53:14 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: Just looked at Archie Comics' subsciption page. Archie Meets Batman '66 is a six-issue miniseries. Archie 1941 is a five-issue miniseries. There's a six-issue subscription for Betty and Veronica: Friends Forever and Vixens (surprisingly; might get transferred to the new B&V title) and a twelve-issue subscription for Riverdale. Riverdale Digest isn't listed, so it looks like it's been cancelled.
    July 18, 2018, 10:03:11 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: New Sabrina's new Instagram welcome message: [link]
    July 14, 2018, 03:29:59 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "The New Archies": "Gunk for Gold": [link]
    July 11, 2018, 11:09:16 PM
  • Vegan Jughead: Pretty sure Archie Comics, being New York based, knows someone at the Times
    July 11, 2018, 06:15:50 AM
  • ASS-P: I just find it " How things have changed " weird when comic book news breaks in The New York Times...but they hardly SELL anything! :-0 Strangeness.
    July 10, 2018, 10:42:57 AM
  • CAPalace: I'm a woman btw and I'm just so sick of the blatant anti-men thing going on in comics these days. It's not doing women any favors either. :/
    July 09, 2018, 09:05:40 PM
  • CAPalace: They're banking on Archie 700 to sell a lot because "lol a new number wow lol" and it will for the first issue but it'll just go back to the average/poor numbers it had before. And YOU KNOW with that writer on B+V it's going to turn into an anti-men, oooh girl power lol violence against men and demeaning men is feminism and fun lol lol Good luck. I'll stick to Ebay to find the DeCarlo stuff thanks.
    July 09, 2018, 09:04:54 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: I'm looking forward to the new B&V series. Personally, I think that previous B&V series by what's-his-name was way worse than anything that Rotante wrote on Vixens.
    July 09, 2018, 08:43:47 PM
  • DeCarlo Rules: So, so predictable... they love to exploit NUMBERS, whether it's a single digit (1 or 0) or a triple-digit ending in 00. Good lord, I can't believe they're actually giving Jamie Rotante ANOTHER B&V series to write ruin! She is the worst I've read -- although it's a tough call, Marguerite Bennett was pretty horrible as well. Nick Spencer can actually be quite good as a writer... or pretty bad, depending on the character and the direction. He was great on ANT-MAN and SUPERIOR FOES OF SPIDER-MAN (both books that had a strong humorous subtext), and not so hot on CAPTAIN AMERICA and THE AVENGERS. And he's he new writer on (yet another) first issue of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, so I wouldn't guess the ARCHIE gig will last. ACP could probably only afford to hire him for that ONE issue, #700.
    July 09, 2018, 06:00:07 PM
  • Vegan Jughead: News on new numbering for the Archie Flagship series and a new B&V series and DeCarlo Rules, you ain't gonna be into this!  And really neither am I: [link]
    July 09, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
  • Mr.Lodge: I still think 'The Married Life' was the best of the most recent and ended way too soon.
    July 06, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
  • DeCarlo Rules: No "big news about the flagship ARCHIE title" could possibly rock my world, short of CLASSIC ARCHIE RETURNS!
    July 06, 2018, 01:18:04 PM
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "Sweetwater" from Riverdale One-Shot: [link]
    July 05, 2018, 08:44:20 PM
  • Vegan Jughead: ARCHIE isn't on hiatus officially. The last official word from Archie Comics is that there is "big news about the flagship ARCHIE title" coming up after the "1941" miniseries. We'll see. RIVERDALE is supposed to come back early '19 after the TV show returns.
    July 05, 2018, 06:14:32 AM
  • Mr.Lodge: Think it's time for new leadership, especially in the creative front?
    July 05, 2018, 03:09:04 AM
  • DeCarlo Rules: I guess there's still THE HUNGER and VAMPIRONICA, but they're still so new that it's hard to think of them as "ongoing".
    July 05, 2018, 12:14:16 AM
  • DeCarlo Rules: So both ARCHIE and RIVERDALE are "on hiatus"? That means ACP has no ongoing floppy comic titles. Not a good sign. Good thing they still have the digests going (knock on wood).
    July 05, 2018, 12:12:47 AM


Author Topic: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??  (Read 2671 times)

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DeCarlo Rules

Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« on: June 01, 2016, 01:42:09 AM »
I know we had a thread on the old site where we were discussing the practice of reprinted stories altering characters' race. I weighed in with the opinion that it didn't bother me in principle (as long as the reprint isn't an archival type collection, like a trade paperback... regular digests, it doesn't bother me) -- BUT what I DO find offensive is that it's so often done so poorly, in terms of choosing the character -- thus making the race change stick out like a sore thumb. It's like flashing a neon sign advertising with a big arrow "FAKE BLACK PERSON".

The most recent Archie digest, JUGHEAD AND ARCHIE JUMBO COMICS #21, contains the most ridiculous example of this race-changing practice that I've ever seen, proving that the colorists are so bored that they can't even be bothered to read the story which they're coloring, and are choosing which characters to race-swap on an entirely random basis, as long as they're not reoccurring characters. Well, this time the colorist goofed big time.

In the reprint of the classic Craig Boldman/Rex Lindsey Jughead story "LEMON Harangue" in this issue, LEROY LODGE has all of a sudden become black. Now granted, Leroy only appears in three or four panels in this story, and is only referred to by name in one of them -- although in the panel prior to that one, Jughead thinks "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin!" But here's the thing... this story has SEVERAL incidental characters who appear in as many panels as Leroy, any one of whom would have made a suitable candidate for race-changing.

Leroy, on the other hand -- apart from being a fairly well-known (except to the colorist, apparently) character, has spiky hair, and freckles, and is accompanied in the story by an unnamed friend in all of the panels in which he appears -- why not the friend?!  Or the reporter who, walking by, observes Jughead attempting to charge Veronica $20 for a glass of lemonade, and thinks it would make an interesting human interest piece for the paper. Or the kid named Billy who asked Jughead to watch his lemonade stand for him while he took a break for lunch, or the entrepreneur who offers to buy Jughead's formula for lemonade thinking it must be the greatest lemonade ever created, if Jughead can get away with charging $20 a glass for it (Veronica bought 2 glasses), or the little girl who Jughead convinces that the lemonade must be terrible if Billy made it with his "grubby little hands" -- the whole point being that Jughead has only agreed to watch the stand because Billy agreed to let him have all the lemonade he wants for free, and Jughead wants to keep it all for himself, which is why he tries to charge Leroy $5 a glass for it, but Leroy passes, and then complains about Jughead's prices to Veronica.

The point is, there were at least four other incidental characters in this story that the colorist could have chosen to race-swap, but didn't.

Instead, he chose to race-swap Leroy Lodge, who is not only a reoccurring character, but Veronica's cousin who has appeared many times, and has always been Caucasian. UNBELIEVABLE.  :idiot2:
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 01:49:44 AM by DeCarlo Rules »

BettyReggie

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2016, 05:40:10 AM »
I loved his character in Life With Archie. He was male version of Veronica when entered Riverdale High. He was spoiled & he was a brat. Mr. Andrews put him in his place. Since Archie & Betty were new teachers.

invisifan

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2016, 08:23:59 AM »
I know we had a thread on the old site where we were discussing the practice of reprinted stories altering characters' race. I weighed in with the opinion that it didn't bother me in principle (as long as the reprint isn't an archival type collection, like a trade paperback... regular digests, it doesn't bother me) -- BUT what I DO find offensive is that it's so often done so poorly, in terms of choosing the character -- thus making the race change stick out like a sore thumb. It's like flashing a neon sign advertising with a big arrow "FAKE BLACK PERSON".

The most recent Archie digest, JUGHEAD AND ARCHIE JUMBO COMICS #21, contains the most ridiculous example of this race-changing practice that I've ever seen, proving that the colorists are so bored that they can't even be bothered to read the story which they're coloring, and are choosing which characters to race-swap on an entirely random basis, as long as they're not reoccurring characters. Well, this time the colorist goofed big time.

In the reprint of the classic Craig Boldman/Rex Lindsey Jughead story "LEMON Harangue" in this issue, LEROY LODGE has all of a sudden become black. Now granted, Leroy only appears in three or four panels in this story, and is only referred to by name in one of them -- although in the panel prior to that one, Jughead thinks "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin!" But here's the thing... this story has SEVERAL incidental characters who appear in as many panels as Leroy, any one of whom would have made a suitable candidate for race-changing.

Leroy, on the other hand -- apart from being a fairly well-known (except to the colorist, apparently) character, has spiky hair, and freckles, and is accompanied in the story by an unnamed friend in all of the panels in which he appears -- why not the friend?!  Or the reporter who, walking by, observes Jughead attempting to charge Veronica $20 for a glass of lemonade, and thinks it would make an interesting human interest piece for the paper. Or the kid named Billy who asked Jughead to watch his lemonade stand for him while he took a break for lunch, or the entrepreneur who offers to buy Jughead's formula for lemonade thinking it must be the greatest lemonade ever created, if Jughead can get away with charging $20 a glass for it (Veronica bought 2 glasses), or the little girl who Jughead convinces that the lemonade must be terrible if Billy made it with his "grubby little hands" -- the whole point being that Jughead has only agreed to watch the stand because Billy agreed to let him have all the lemonade he wants for free, and Jughead wants to keep it all for himself, which is why he tries to charge Leroy $5 a glass for it, but Leroy passes, and then complains about Jughead's prices to Veronica.

The point is, there were at least four other incidental characters in this story that the colorist could have chosen to race-swap, but didn't.

Instead, he chose to race-swap Leroy Lodge, who is not only a reoccurring character, but Veronica's cousin who has appeared many times, and has always been Caucasian. UNBELIEVABLE.  :idiot2:
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …

DeCarlo Rules

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 09:01:59 AM »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.


I don't think the colorist is reading these stories AT ALL, never mind skimming them.


I mean, what's next? Some colorist is going to fail to visually identify Fred Andrews in some scene where he's not in the usual context of the Andrews home or with Mary or Archie, perhaps dressed a little differently than usual, and wearing a hat and sunglasses, for instance... and decide to make him the "person of color" in that particular story?

daren

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 01:14:35 AM »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.



But just because Leroy's Ronnie's cousin doesn't mean he'd automatically be white, look at Harper. The only thing that should keep him white is that he's been drawn that way 70 years and it's too late to racechange him (yes it is, ACP, I bet this wasn't accidental at all).

DeCarlo Rules

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 01:23:17 AM »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.



But just because Leroy's Ronnie's cousin doesn't mean he'd automatically be white, look at Harper. The only thing that should keep him white is that he's been drawn that way 70 years and it's too late to racechange him (yes it is, ACP, I bet this wasn't accidental at all).

No, I just honestly think they've got this mandate to pick out a character with a speaking role in the story and make him/her a person of color. If I had to guess, Leroy got picked because he's the only character in the story besides Ronnie and Juggie that has black hair (although not having black hair hasn't stopped them from race-changing characters in the past). What's really ironic is that, like I said, Leroy is in only 3 panels in that story (which is the same number of panels as Leroy's unnamed friend, but he gets only 2 words of dialogue) -- but the the little girl that Jughead convinces not to buy any lemonade is in as many panels as Leroy & friend, and has just as much dialogue. The reporter "Scoop" has even more panels, and so does the entrepreneur who wants to purchase the recipe for this $20-a-glass lemonade. Billy the owner of the lemonade stand who goes home for lunch leaving Jughead in charge has an even bigger part and more dialogue. I REALLY REALLY don't think that the colorists are even reading the stories, apart for scanning for words referring to colors like "blue", "red" etc. that might relate to their job.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 02:06:06 AM by DeCarlo Rules »

daren

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 02:06:29 AM »
Maybe but it wouldnt' surprise me if this was on purpose.

 


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