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My thoughts on the upcoming Archie 1941 miniseries taking the main series place by ASS-P
[September 22, 2018, 10:12:35 pm]


What are you currently watching? by BettyReggie
[September 22, 2018, 10:04:16 am]


What comics have you been reading? by BettyReggie
[September 22, 2018, 10:02:55 am]


ARCHIE COMICS FOR NOVEMBER 2017 by CanScatC
[September 21, 2018, 01:07:00 pm]


What have you done today? by Archiecomicxfan215
[September 20, 2018, 10:18:25 pm]


Days we look foward to as Archie Fans. by BettyReggie
[September 20, 2018, 04:00:34 pm]


Latest Hauls, what did you buy? by DeCarlo Rules
[September 18, 2018, 11:25:10 am]


An Archie Comics timeline (2009-2018): highlights & lowlights by DeCarlo Rules
[September 16, 2018, 10:50:09 am]


So I bought Archie Archives Vol. 1 and ... by Terry1
[September 14, 2018, 05:58:14 pm]


Riverdale Reviewed by Tuxedo Mark
[September 13, 2018, 07:33:58 pm]

* Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • DeCarlo Rules: Presumably with an ongoing B&V series, they'd want to keep it nominally in continuity with the ongoing ARCHIE title.
    September 22, 2018, 07:03:48 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: Oh, I hadn't noticed that the story is "Senior Year", so that explains it. It's a one-off story arc, just like "Freshman Year". They're not going to keep them as seniors permanently, or have them graduate and go on to college in an ongoing series.
    September 22, 2018, 06:59:24 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: Probably just a space-filler while they look for a better writer than Jaime Rotante. I hope.
    September 22, 2018, 12:08:34 am
  • Tuxedo Mark: Wait a minute. Betty and Veronica is only a five-issue miniseries?
    September 21, 2018, 08:31:21 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: Archie Comic solicitations for October 2018: [link]
    September 21, 2018, 05:36:35 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: Check out Stadium Comics' entire line of Archie Comics RE variant covers here: [link] All are homages to famous Marvel or DC cover images.
    September 20, 2018, 09:05:41 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: Those are RE (retailer exclusive) variants available only from Stadium Comics. Here's another cool one they have, a variant of ARCHIE 1941 #1 [link]
    September 20, 2018, 09:01:16 am
  • Tuxedo Mark: Anyone ever see these B&V Friends Forever variant covers? [link]
    September 19, 2018, 10:15:05 am
  • BettyReggie: I saw the covers for Archie #701. I love Pitilli's.
    September 18, 2018, 09:27:43 pm
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "Fashion Fantabulous!" from B&V #271: [link]
    September 13, 2018, 07:34:29 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: It seems like they put extras on a disc because people expect them, or it helps drive sales, but more often than not, it seems like very little thought goes into the content. Of course there are some examples where the extras are exceptional, but usually that's not the case.
    September 10, 2018, 11:42:47 am
  • irishmoxie: I love digital movies and streaming. I usually get the Blu-ray Disc because I like to watch the extras the first time and then end up adding the digital code online or rip it and put it on the hard drive. Just much more convenient to stream it then search for the disc when I want to watch it.
    September 08, 2018, 05:29:56 pm
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "The Breakfast Club" from Riverdale #2: [link]
    September 05, 2018, 06:28:58 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: That's some good reading. Hope they'll put out a Volume 2, and that it'll be just as nearly complete as the first one.
    September 03, 2018, 08:55:41 am
  • BettyReggie: Archie Comics Present Betty & Veronica Spectular Graphic Novel came today.
    September 02, 2018, 03:57:33 pm
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "Supply and Demand!" from World of Archie Digest #81: [link]
    September 01, 2018, 08:14:51 pm
  • zhanjiao1212: a1cb584468
    August 31, 2018, 05:33:06 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: On the other hand, maybe I should just bypass the Blu-Ray format altogether, buy a huge terabyte HD, and download everything. There's something to be said for that, in that you can get everything quicker and stacks of Blu-Ray cases aren't taking up space in your house, I guess.
    August 27, 2018, 03:19:15 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: This coming from a guy who still hasn't capitulated to the inevitable domination of Blu-Ray. It's getting to the point where I might have to relent, since I've seen some anime sets being released for the first time on Blu-Ray (no combo pak) with NO release of a DVD version.
    August 27, 2018, 03:09:15 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: I'll never get used to people not being able to wait a few days when they order stuff online. I guess maybe I could understand it IF it were something that there was no other way to see, but I assume you've already seen the episodes.  People who are that impatient usually don't even buy disc sets, they just buy it digitally or stream it.
    August 27, 2018, 03:06:17 pm


Author Topic: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??  (Read 2784 times)

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DeCarlo Rules

Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« on: June 01, 2016, 01:42:09 am »
I know we had a thread on the old site where we were discussing the practice of reprinted stories altering characters' race. I weighed in with the opinion that it didn't bother me in principle (as long as the reprint isn't an archival type collection, like a trade paperback... regular digests, it doesn't bother me) -- BUT what I DO find offensive is that it's so often done so poorly, in terms of choosing the character -- thus making the race change stick out like a sore thumb. It's like flashing a neon sign advertising with a big arrow "FAKE BLACK PERSON".

The most recent Archie digest, JUGHEAD AND ARCHIE JUMBO COMICS #21, contains the most ridiculous example of this race-changing practice that I've ever seen, proving that the colorists are so bored that they can't even be bothered to read the story which they're coloring, and are choosing which characters to race-swap on an entirely random basis, as long as they're not reoccurring characters. Well, this time the colorist goofed big time.

In the reprint of the classic Craig Boldman/Rex Lindsey Jughead story "LEMON Harangue" in this issue, LEROY LODGE has all of a sudden become black. Now granted, Leroy only appears in three or four panels in this story, and is only referred to by name in one of them -- although in the panel prior to that one, Jughead thinks "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin!" But here's the thing... this story has SEVERAL incidental characters who appear in as many panels as Leroy, any one of whom would have made a suitable candidate for race-changing.

Leroy, on the other hand -- apart from being a fairly well-known (except to the colorist, apparently) character, has spiky hair, and freckles, and is accompanied in the story by an unnamed friend in all of the panels in which he appears -- why not the friend?!  Or the reporter who, walking by, observes Jughead attempting to charge Veronica $20 for a glass of lemonade, and thinks it would make an interesting human interest piece for the paper. Or the kid named Billy who asked Jughead to watch his lemonade stand for him while he took a break for lunch, or the entrepreneur who offers to buy Jughead's formula for lemonade thinking it must be the greatest lemonade ever created, if Jughead can get away with charging $20 a glass for it (Veronica bought 2 glasses), or the little girl who Jughead convinces that the lemonade must be terrible if Billy made it with his "grubby little hands" -- the whole point being that Jughead has only agreed to watch the stand because Billy agreed to let him have all the lemonade he wants for free, and Jughead wants to keep it all for himself, which is why he tries to charge Leroy $5 a glass for it, but Leroy passes, and then complains about Jughead's prices to Veronica.

The point is, there were at least four other incidental characters in this story that the colorist could have chosen to race-swap, but didn't.

Instead, he chose to race-swap Leroy Lodge, who is not only a reoccurring character, but Veronica's cousin who has appeared many times, and has always been Caucasian. UNBELIEVABLE.  :idiot2:
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 01:49:44 am by DeCarlo Rules »

BettyReggie

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2016, 05:40:10 am »
I loved his character in Life With Archie. He was male version of Veronica when entered Riverdale High. He was spoiled & he was a brat. Mr. Andrews put him in his place. Since Archie & Betty were new teachers.

invisifan

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2016, 08:23:59 am »
I know we had a thread on the old site where we were discussing the practice of reprinted stories altering characters' race. I weighed in with the opinion that it didn't bother me in principle (as long as the reprint isn't an archival type collection, like a trade paperback... regular digests, it doesn't bother me) -- BUT what I DO find offensive is that it's so often done so poorly, in terms of choosing the character -- thus making the race change stick out like a sore thumb. It's like flashing a neon sign advertising with a big arrow "FAKE BLACK PERSON".

The most recent Archie digest, JUGHEAD AND ARCHIE JUMBO COMICS #21, contains the most ridiculous example of this race-changing practice that I've ever seen, proving that the colorists are so bored that they can't even be bothered to read the story which they're coloring, and are choosing which characters to race-swap on an entirely random basis, as long as they're not reoccurring characters. Well, this time the colorist goofed big time.

In the reprint of the classic Craig Boldman/Rex Lindsey Jughead story "LEMON Harangue" in this issue, LEROY LODGE has all of a sudden become black. Now granted, Leroy only appears in three or four panels in this story, and is only referred to by name in one of them -- although in the panel prior to that one, Jughead thinks "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin!" But here's the thing... this story has SEVERAL incidental characters who appear in as many panels as Leroy, any one of whom would have made a suitable candidate for race-changing.

Leroy, on the other hand -- apart from being a fairly well-known (except to the colorist, apparently) character, has spiky hair, and freckles, and is accompanied in the story by an unnamed friend in all of the panels in which he appears -- why not the friend?!  Or the reporter who, walking by, observes Jughead attempting to charge Veronica $20 for a glass of lemonade, and thinks it would make an interesting human interest piece for the paper. Or the kid named Billy who asked Jughead to watch his lemonade stand for him while he took a break for lunch, or the entrepreneur who offers to buy Jughead's formula for lemonade thinking it must be the greatest lemonade ever created, if Jughead can get away with charging $20 a glass for it (Veronica bought 2 glasses), or the little girl who Jughead convinces that the lemonade must be terrible if Billy made it with his "grubby little hands" -- the whole point being that Jughead has only agreed to watch the stand because Billy agreed to let him have all the lemonade he wants for free, and Jughead wants to keep it all for himself, which is why he tries to charge Leroy $5 a glass for it, but Leroy passes, and then complains about Jughead's prices to Veronica.

The point is, there were at least four other incidental characters in this story that the colorist could have chosen to race-swap, but didn't.

Instead, he chose to race-swap Leroy Lodge, who is not only a reoccurring character, but Veronica's cousin who has appeared many times, and has always been Caucasian. UNBELIEVABLE.  :idiot2:
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …

DeCarlo Rules

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 09:01:59 am »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.


I don't think the colorist is reading these stories AT ALL, never mind skimming them.


I mean, what's next? Some colorist is going to fail to visually identify Fred Andrews in some scene where he's not in the usual context of the Andrews home or with Mary or Archie, perhaps dressed a little differently than usual, and wearing a hat and sunglasses, for instance... and decide to make him the "person of color" in that particular story?

daren

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 01:14:35 am »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.



But just because Leroy's Ronnie's cousin doesn't mean he'd automatically be white, look at Harper. The only thing that should keep him white is that he's been drawn that way 70 years and it's too late to racechange him (yes it is, ACP, I bet this wasn't accidental at all).

DeCarlo Rules

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 01:23:17 am »
Most likely the colourist (or whoever made the decision) barely read any Archie stories, skimmed this one and thought ''Leroy is a stereotypical black name” and away you go …


No, I don't think the colorists are even looking at the names. Even if he/she failed to recognize Leroy as Veronica's cousin, it's part of the plot of the story that Veronica is willing to pay $20 for a cup of lemonade from Jughead, because she's been alerted to his exorbitant prices by her cousin. Of course she's sure he's up to something and just wants to ruin it for him. The reader isn't expected to recognize Leroy by sight either (he's wearing a skateboarding helmet), so he's introduced in the panel before he shows up by Jughead thinking "Oh great, here comes Veronica's bratty cousin", then Jughead addresses him by name in the next panel.



But just because Leroy's Ronnie's cousin doesn't mean he'd automatically be white, look at Harper. The only thing that should keep him white is that he's been drawn that way 70 years and it's too late to racechange him (yes it is, ACP, I bet this wasn't accidental at all).

No, I just honestly think they've got this mandate to pick out a character with a speaking role in the story and make him/her a person of color. If I had to guess, Leroy got picked because he's the only character in the story besides Ronnie and Juggie that has black hair (although not having black hair hasn't stopped them from race-changing characters in the past). What's really ironic is that, like I said, Leroy is in only 3 panels in that story (which is the same number of panels as Leroy's unnamed friend, but he gets only 2 words of dialogue) -- but the the little girl that Jughead convinces not to buy any lemonade is in as many panels as Leroy & friend, and has just as much dialogue. The reporter "Scoop" has even more panels, and so does the entrepreneur who wants to purchase the recipe for this $20-a-glass lemonade. Billy the owner of the lemonade stand who goes home for lunch leaving Jughead in charge has an even bigger part and more dialogue. I REALLY REALLY don't think that the colorists are even reading the stories, apart for scanning for words referring to colors like "blue", "red" etc. that might relate to their job.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 02:06:06 am by DeCarlo Rules »

daren

Re: Leroy Lodge... Person Of Color ??
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 02:06:29 am »
Maybe but it wouldnt' surprise me if this was on purpose.

 


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