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Life With Kevin

Started by spazaru, June 23, 2016, 03:07:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

irishmoxie

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

You're missing out. Like Daren said it fills that void that classic Archie left. I didn't like the color scheme at first but I got used to it as I read on.

Given that it's a miniseries, it shouldn't be that long of a wait. I REALLY would like to see it in full color, but if that doesn't happen for print, I'll still buy it anyway. It's not even the lack of color per se in a comic book that bothers me. If this were an independent series with all new characters by Dan and J Bone, I'd be fine with it. It just sort of bugs me that they're trying to disassociate the series from classic Archie by using the coloring palette as a lever.


I think they went with the minimal color because it's cheaper and they were in a rush to get it out not because they were trying to be "indie."

That can't be right. It's DIGITAL. There's no INK to pay for, so it's not as if ONE color only costs 25% of what FOUR colors would cost. They still have to pay a colorist to color it whether that colorist is only using a single color, or multiple colors. What, you think somehow the colorist is going to accept only 1/4 of his normal pay rate per page? People who work in the comics industry are paid by the page, not by the hour. If I was a colorist and someone told me that they wanted the book done in one color, would I be willing to do it for 1/4 the page rate I normally get? -- I'd say "PASS". What did they save, a few extra mouse clicks for the colorist in switching back and forth between different colors? No, this was a conscious aesthetic choice. You might argue that the decision was an artistic one rather than an attempt to "disassociate from classic Archie", but either way it couldn't be proven. I have my suspicions, though.


Dan Parent colored the book so yes I believe they were trying to save some pennies by not hiring another person as a colorist.

DeCarlo Rules

#16
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 29, 2016, 01:11:41 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

You're missing out. Like Daren said it fills that void that classic Archie left. I didn't like the color scheme at first but I got used to it as I read on.

Given that it's a miniseries, it shouldn't be that long of a wait. I REALLY would like to see it in full color, but if that doesn't happen for print, I'll still buy it anyway. It's not even the lack of color per se in a comic book that bothers me. If this were an independent series with all new characters by Dan and J Bone, I'd be fine with it. It just sort of bugs me that they're trying to disassociate the series from classic Archie by using the coloring palette as a lever.


I think they went with the minimal color because it's cheaper and they were in a rush to get it out not because they were trying to be "indie."

That can't be right. It's DIGITAL. There's no INK to pay for, so it's not as if ONE color only costs 25% of what FOUR colors would cost. They still have to pay a colorist to color it whether that colorist is only using a single color, or multiple colors. What, you think somehow the colorist is going to accept only 1/4 of his normal pay rate per page? People who work in the comics industry are paid by the page, not by the hour. If I was a colorist and someone told me that they wanted the book done in one color, would I be willing to do it for 1/4 the page rate I normally get? -- I'd say "PASS". What did they save, a few extra mouse clicks for the colorist in switching back and forth between different colors? No, this was a conscious aesthetic choice. You might argue that the decision was an artistic one rather than an attempt to "disassociate from classic Archie", but either way it couldn't be proven. I have my suspicions, though.

Dan Parent colored the book so yes I believe they were trying to save some pennies by not hiring another person as a colorist.

So you're saying he colored it for free? Those are all jobs that people get paid for, you know. Whether Dan colored it, or an artist who specializes in coloring, they still have to be paid for the job. It's no different than writing and penciling and inking. Whether the same guy did all three or only one of those jobs, they each involve a separate page rate.

Betty Girl

I'm looking forward to it, although I'll likely wait for the print. I'm not on devices often enough to warrant going with the digital version.

daren

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.


Come on De, if they don't sell enough of the digital version there might not be a print edition, I'll buy you a copy.

DeCarlo Rules

#19
Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:03:25 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.


Come on De, if they don't sell enough of the digital version there might not be a print edition, I'll buy you a copy.

Come on, ACP has got megabuck investors now. That's why I'm scratching my head when @irishmoxie says they're pinching the pennies on this one. And (I hope this isn't the case in actuality) somehow it seems like I'm getting the impression that KEVIN is being looked at by people as something that is "fringe market" that we have to underwrite as a charity, because it's the right thing to do.

EDIT:  I actually took some time to have a good hard think about this. Here's what I came up with...

Comics are available in a lot of different formats today. Digital, floppy singles, and TPBs. Sometimes HCs, as well. And I had to mull over your theory that if they don't sell enough digital copies, there won't be a print copy. It seems to me the problem is exactly the opposite. Too many people are going to be satisfied to buy the digital copy, and there it ends for them. Why should they be required to buy it twice? They're not made of money, right? And this is coming from a guy who double-dips FAR more than is rational for a sensible person. I can't begin to even think about all the money I've spent on TPBs and HCs containing stories I'd already purchased as floppies. Digital... eh, not so much. It's not my preferred format. Nor is it reasonable for a comic book publisher to expect consumers to purchase the same story twice -- but ACP consumers somehow can't even avoid that. How many times have I read the SAME story over again in another digest or TPB? Again, FAR more than is the case for any other comic book publisher that I can think of.

But to get to the point here... It's PRINT that needs your charity as a comic book fan, not digital. Digital has practically zero overhead for the publisher other than the payments to the creators. PRINT has LOTS more overhead, with printers and distributors that have to be paid. If the creators have already been paid, the only question is whether the printers and distributors can be paid. They certainly won't be getting that money from the people who bought digital, were happy with that, and moved on to newer digital comics. And again -- they shouldn't be depending on people to buy it twice. That's an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation. Some people have already given up on print, and moved on. I'm not one of them. So I guess that's where my true loyalties lie. IF it turns out that the TPB is solicited, and then cancelled, THEN I'll consider buying digital -- if print isn't an option, but it's not my preference, and I have to make that known somehow.

irishmoxie

#20
As Gisele said, I guess it was a conscious aesthetic choice by Dan Parent to only do 3 colors and it happens to look "indie." Methinks he was just busy during convention season and thought this was easier to do for the same money. Compare how much work goes into the coloring of Life with Kevin versus Jem and the Holograms. But the reason a lot of indie comics look like that and have less color is because they have less funds to pump into a colorist. I guess you could say they want to be minimalist because that is the indie artistic look but I think it's due to cost. Why do they re-release colored versions of the same comics i.e. Scott Pilgrim, Chynna Clugston's Blue Monday, Sophie Campbell's Wet Moon years later once the artist has "made it"? Is that imploring the same consumers to buy it again or to reach new fans who might not have otherwise read it in the black and white version?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 30, 2016, 07:35:07 AM
Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:03:25 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PMSo far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.
Come on De, if they don't sell enough of the digital version there might not be a print edition, I'll buy you a copy.
Come on, ACP has got megabuck investors now. That's why I'm scratching my head when @irishmoxie says they're pinching the pennies on this one. And (I hope this isn't the case in actuality) somehow it seems like I'm getting the impression that KEVIN is being looked at by people as something that is "fringe market" that we have to underwrite as a charity, because it's the right thing to do.EDIT:  I actually took some time to have a good hard think about this. Here's what I came up with...Comics are available in a lot of different formats today. Digital, floppy singles, and TPBs. Sometimes HCs, as well. And I had to mull over your theory that if they don't sell enough digital copies, there won't be a print copy. It seems to me the problem is exactly the opposite. Too many people are going to be satisfied to buy the digital copy, and there it ends for them. Why should they be required to buy it twice? They're not made of money, right? And this is coming from a guy who double-dips FAR more than is rational for a sensible person. I can't begin to even think about all the money I've spent on TPBs and HCs containing stories I'd already purchased as floppies. Digital... eh, not so much. It's not my preferred format. Nor is it reasonable for a comic book publisher to expect consumers to purchase the same story twice -- but ACP consumers somehow can't even avoid that. How many times have I read the SAME story over again in another digest or TPB? Again, FAR more than is the case for any other comic book publisher that I can think of.But to get to the point here... It's PRINT that needs your charity as a comic book fan, not digital. Digital has practically zero overhead for the publisher other than the payments to the creators. PRINT has LOTS more overhead, with printers and distributors that have to be paid. If the creators have already been paid, the only question is whether the printers and distributors can be paid. They certainly won't be getting that money from the people who bought digital, were happy with that, and moved on to newer digital comics. And again -- they shouldn't be depending on people to buy it twice. That's an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation. Some people have already given up on print, and moved on. I'm not one of them. So I guess that's where my true loyalties lie. IF it turns out that the TPB is solicited, and then cancelled, THEN I'll consider buying digital -- if print isn't an option, but it's not my preference, and I have to make that known somehow.

As far as digital versus print goes, I would think it would be more of a charity to a company to buy the digital version because they stand to make more per copy because of less overhead. I remember hearing something about how the last trade paperback of the the Kevin Keller series was never printed and how that was due to low sales. So that along with ACP's history of soliciting tons of TPBs that they never print, it's a very real possibility that Life With Kevin could never make it to TPB.

I'm not sure why ACP is misreading their existing fans so much who love print copies. I think they are just trying to cut costs and keep more money in their company by not involving printers and distributors.




DeCarlo Rules

#21
Quote from: irishmoxie on June 30, 2016, 10:13:51 AM
As Gisele said, I guess it was a conscious aesthetic choice by Dan Parent to only do 3 colors and it happens to look "indie." Methinks he was just busy during convention season and thought this was easier to do for the same money. Compare how much work goes into the coloring of Life with Kevin versus Jem and the Holograms. But the reason a lot of indie comics look like that and have less color is because they have less funds to pump into a colorist. I guess you could say they want to be minimalist because that is the indie artistic look but I think it's due to cost. Why do they re-release colored versions of the same comics i.e. Scott Pilgrim, Chynna Clugston's Blue Monday, Sophie Campbell's Wet Moon years later once the artist has "made it"? Is that imploring the same consumers to buy it again or to reach new fans who might not have otherwise read it in the black and white version?

My own theory is, something must be done to send the message "LOOK AT ME! I'm NOT YOUR FATHER'S ARCHIE COMICS!" and that something in this case (since J Bone's inking alone is not distinguishing the artwork to the casual reader) is the coloring.

Why do they release color versions of those comics? The same reason they released a print version (of what was originally a webcomic) in the first place. Expand the audience. Some will not read it as a webcomic, but will read it as a print comic. And some will not read it as a BLACK AND WHITE print comic, but only as a color comic, so... further expansion of the existing audience. Once they've made enough money to underwrite the costs. Independent, creator-owned, webcomics. NOTHING LIKE ARCHIE COMICS PUBLICATIONS INC. I expect that from Pixie Trix and AstroComix. Darin of SitComics, bless his soul, is draining his own bank account to do a color print comic. And I love him for it. Those are just names. Really, Pixie Trix, AstroComix, and SitComics aren't "companies". They are one or two people doing it all by themselves. When they hire people to work for them, they pay them out of their own pocket. Creator and publisher are the same thing. I don't mean that pejoratively, as in "they're not a REAL company", I mean it in the best sense of "subtract the creator, and there IS no company".

As for how much ACP is making for profit on it, it is what it is. They've been in business for 75 years, they are not a lone person starting from scratch. They better not be asking for my charity, because I can tell you for a fact, regardless of whatever money problems they have or had, they're still richer than me. And I don't have venture capitalists financing me either. Dan & Fernando can do a print comic, Gisele can do a print comic, and Darin can do a print comic. Lone creative individuals, but ArchieCo, in business for 75(+) years, needs MY help to cross that huge chasm from digital to print??

daren

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 30, 2016, 07:35:07 AM
Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:03:25 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.


Come on De, if they don't sell enough of the digital version there might not be a print edition, I'll buy you a copy.

Come on, ACP has got megabuck investors now. That's why I'm scratching my head when @irishmoxie says they're pinching the pennies on this one. And (I hope this isn't the case in actuality) somehow it seems like I'm getting the impression that KEVIN is being looked at by people as something that is "fringe market" that we have to underwrite as a charity, because it's the right thing to do.

EDIT:  I actually took some time to have a good hard think about this. Here's what I came up with...

Comics are available in a lot of different formats today. Digital, floppy singles, and TPBs. Sometimes HCs, as well. And I had to mull over your theory that if they don't sell enough digital copies, there won't be a print copy. It seems to me the problem is exactly the opposite. Too many people are going to be satisfied to buy the digital copy, and there it ends for them. Why should they be required to buy it twice? They're not made of money, right? And this is coming from a guy who double-dips FAR more than is rational for a sensible person. I can't begin to even think about all the money I've spent on TPBs and HCs containing stories I'd already purchased as floppies. Digital... eh, not so much. It's not my preferred format. Nor is it reasonable for a comic book publisher to expect consumers to purchase the same story twice -- but ACP consumers somehow can't even avoid that. How many times have I read the SAME story over again in another digest or TPB? Again, FAR more than is the case for any other comic book publisher that I can think of.

But to get to the point here... It's PRINT that needs your charity as a comic book fan, not digital. Digital has practically zero overhead for the publisher other than the payments to the creators. PRINT has LOTS more overhead, with printers and distributors that have to be paid. If the creators have already been paid, the only question is whether the printers and distributors can be paid. They certainly won't be getting that money from the people who bought digital, were happy with that, and moved on to newer digital comics. And again -- they shouldn't be depending on people to buy it twice. That's an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation. Some people have already given up on print, and moved on. I'm not one of them. So I guess that's where my true loyalties lie. IF it turns out that the TPB is solicited, and then cancelled, THEN I'll consider buying digital -- if print isn't an option, but it's not my preference, and I have to make that known somehow.


I wasn't thinking of charity, I just want ACP to put out the TPB and they might not do that if the digital version doesn't sell, no matter how much money they have now.

danparent

Hi guys ,it's been a long time since I've been on here! Thanks to those of you supporting the new Kevin series .  I'm really happy with it ,and it gets even better. As far as the color choices , that was totally my idea. It's not a cost cutting move, since I'm paid the same ! This was originally meant as a trade in my eyes, and I was inspired by the one tone coloring of certain graphic novels .  And the powers that be at Archie def plan to put this in a trade , as we discuss ed this just last week. But I get the coloring isn't for everyone, but it sets a tone that feels right to me .  The main thing is that  there's a lot more Kevin story t o tell. Hope you all enjoy the series , and all comments are welcome !

spazaru

Quote from: danparent on July 01, 2016, 07:22:20 PM
Hi guys ,it's been a long time since I've been on here! Thanks to those of you supporting the new Kevin series .  I'm really happy with it ,and it gets even better. As far as the color choices , that was totally my idea. It's not a cost cutting move, since I'm paid the same ! This was originally meant as a trade in my eyes, and I was inspired by the one tone coloring of certain graphic novels .  And the powers that be at Archie def plan to put this in a trade , as we discuss ed this just last week. But I get the coloring isn't for everyone, but it sets a tone that feels right to me .  The main thing is that  there's a lot more Kevin story t o tell. Hope you all enjoy the series , and all comments are welcome !

I loved the first issue Dan!  I'm not crazy about the colors, to be honest, but the story is fun and that's what really matters.  And you're the writer so if you feel ike it feels right to you, then I'm sure we can get used to it and I'm really glad a trade is coming as well. 

DeCarlo Rules

#25
Quote from: spazaru on July 01, 2016, 07:30:33 PM
Quote from: danparent on July 01, 2016, 07:22:20 PM
Hi guys ,it's been a long time since I've been on here! Thanks to those of you supporting the new Kevin series .  I'm really happy with it ,and it gets even better. As far as the color choices , that was totally my idea. It's not a cost cutting move, since I'm paid the same ! This was originally meant as a trade in my eyes, and I was inspired by the one tone coloring of certain graphic novels .  And the powers that be at Archie def plan to put this in a trade , as we discuss ed this just last week. But I get the coloring isn't for everyone, but it sets a tone that feels right to me .  The main thing is that  there's a lot more Kevin story t o tell. Hope you all enjoy the series , and all comments are welcome !

I loved the first issue Dan!  I'm not crazy about the colors, to be honest, but the story is fun and that's what really matters.  And you're the writer so if you feel ike it feels right to you, then I'm sure we can get used to it and I'm really glad a trade is coming as well.

I agree. I think the monotone coloring is something that I think works beautifully in (as Gisele mentioned) Darwyn Cooke's PARKER graphic novels, a hard-boiled crime/noir series set in the early 1960s. It's just not something that I think works as well for ARCHIE Comics. Plus it sort of disconnects it for me from the original KEVIN KELLER series, and I have this strong desire to believe that there's continuity there between the original series and LIFE WITH KEVIN, that it's not some "possible alternate future" like the parallel worlds of LIFE WITH ARCHIE, but that it really IS Kevin's real future, a few years later after high school -- and that in that sense, classic Archie lives on.

One final thought on digital vs. print comics:
I strongly support the idea of independent comic book retailers, and without print sales, those comic book shops will cease to exist except as "comic-related merchandise boutiques" (t-shirts, posters, action figures, coffee mugs...). Even though I strongly prefer the trade paperback/hardcover or graphic novel over floppy comics, I recognize that comic shop owners need those floppy sales to continue in the business of selling print comics. Although I accept that the death of floppy comics is inevitable and that they'll give way to digital singles, followed by collected print editions, sometime in the near future, I don't want it to happen in MY lifetime that the only floppy comics sold in comic book shops are back issues and variant covers of new comics. I will do everything I can to stave off that future for as long as I can. I can't do anything to influence anyone else to think that way, and maybe they don't even live close enough to a comic book shop, or the hassle involved in driving there isn't worthwhile for them because comic book shops don't carry anywhere near enough of the type of comics that they like, or they just prefer digital because they don't need to be stored and take up space in their house. Digital comics don't need my help. They're pretty much available to anyone, anywhere, that has a device to view them on (which describes most people), so they sell themselves to anyone who has the desire to read them.

The Archie character names and likenesses are covered by the registered trademarks/copyrights of Archie Comic Publications, Inc. and are used with permission by this site. The Official Archie Comics website can be visited at www.archiecomics.com.