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October 07, 2022, 03:54:51 PM

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Life with Archie (Warning: Possible Spoilers)

Started by SAGG, April 06, 2018, 11:30:32 PM

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DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on April 13, 2018, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 13, 2018, 01:08:49 AM
I forgot which timeline it was, but at the beginning didn't one of the Cheryls run off to Hollywood to be discovered as an actress, but then she winds up waitressing when she didn't make it (eventually returning to Riverdale humbled)? And why's Jason slaving away working for Lodge in some middle-management position in the Veronicaverse, if his dad is still a billionaire?

I don't remember Jason working for Mr. Lodge, but that does sound kind of familiar. All that I remember is, in the Bettyverse, when Cheryl returns home, she's living in a mansion. I might have to go back and flip through those issues.

In the Veronicaverse, Cheryl did indeed go off to Hollwood and ended up waiting tables. Same in the Bettyverse (albeit mentioned in retrospect instead of shown). The difference is, in the Bettyverse, Cheryl returns home due to her life being derailed by breast cancer, whereas, in the Veronicaverse, she comes home only when she's invited to Jughead and Ethel's wedding, and she's happy to pose for glam shots for Raj as he's recording her with his camera.

I guess my point there was that I couldn't see Cheryl waitressing (even if she failed to make it as an actress) or Jason working in some undistinguished position for Lodge if Daddy Blossom is still Mister Megabucks Techstartup-IPO; they'd expect handouts of cash, or dad's help and connections in establishing careers for themselves. Unless, as I speculated, he had disinherited Cheryl & Jason (perhaps not even with vindictiveness or malice, but in an attempt at character-building and teaching them a lesson about making their own way in life, even as he had to, when growing up).

Paul Kupperberg hadn't been a regular writer for Archie Comics prior to taking on the LWA gig, so it's entirely possible that in doing his background research on the characters for The Married Life, he hadn't even read the 2008 story from Betty and Veronica Double Digest where Mr. Blossom regained his lost fortune, and was still proceeding under the misapprehension that Blossom having lost his fortune sometime after moving to Europe, and being demoted to working for Lodge Industries after moving back stateside, was still the then-current status quo.

EDIT:  Thinking about this whole thing again just now, I realize it's both a mistake to blame Paul Kupperberg (because, as I picked up Book One of THE MARRIED LIFE and flipped to the opening page, I realize that I'd forgotten that Michael Uslan was also involved as a writer at the beginning of the LWA series). The mistake here would be in assuming that since LWA, the magazine series, began in 2010, the future storylines depicted in The Married Life should reflect the status quo as it was in the "main continuity of the Archieverse" (for whatever that's worth) as it existed in 2010. It doesn't, because The Married Life is actually an extension of "Archie Marries" (from ARCHIE #600-605), written by Michael Uslan and published somewhere around July or August of 2009. Since Uslan was also not a regular writer of Archie stories, it's fair to say he probably did whatever research he needed as a basis for projecting the supporting characters' possible futures months and months earlier than that, and in that event it's very likely he had never read the Cheryl story published in BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #166 -- the one where the Blossoms regained their wealth, which would have appeared somewhere around November of 2008. It seems to me that planning for a major event like ARCHIE #600 would have been in the works many months earlier than the normal production lead time of say, three or four months before the story appeared for sale, because of the need to coordinate and advance publicity -- hitting the #600 milestone mark was going to be a big deal for ARCHIE, so they would have taken to planning it the year before that. Something that affected a character like Cheryl's status would not necessarily have been considered important enough to impact Archie's marriage to Veronica and Betty. Thus, when Archie in the story decides to wander in the Yellow Wood, down Memory Lane, the point at which the timelines are diverging from the "main continuity Archieverse" is likely sometime in 2008, about as current as Michael Uslan could have been expected to read in published Archieverse stories before starting to assemble his notes and plot points regarding various supporting characters to be included in "Archie Marries".


Quote from: SAGG on April 07, 2018, 09:59:51 AMAnd what happened to Miss Grundy in the AMV universe? She died in the AMB universe, but I didn't see her at all in the other one. I guess the writers had AMB be Riverdale High-centric for the AMB universe, and deliberately Riverdale City-centric in the AMV universe. So many loose threads remain, with Mirth and that woman with him. Hey, maybe we can get Mr. Ruiz to fill in the blanks, since he did one of the stories! Was the ending rushed, or something? Also, Bella Beazley was the scheming redhead in the AMB universe, while Cheryl Blossom was the now-sympathetic redhead in the AMV universe. 

Also again, did anyone notice that the ending of LWA coincided with the beginning of the "new" Archie? I think LWA was the "farewell" for Classic Archie (outside of the new stories for the digests), and it fulfilled the "what if" scenario of fans wondering what it would look like if Archie and his friends grew up and dealt with the Real World. Hey, DR, everybody, which story did you prefer? AMV? AMB?
Hi everyone. I'm new to the the forum. The 3 "Archie Marries" stories (Will You Marry Me, Life With Archie, and the 10th Anniversary) got me back into Archie comics after 30 years. I was curious to see how the gang would be as grown ups and, of course, Life With Archie is the epic story having spanned 4 years and 37 issues. In the AMV side, Miss Grundy, is standing next to Mr, Weatherbee at Kevin Keller's wedding issue #16. There is no mention if they are married, dating, or just friends. I do have to say, I prefer the AMB side more and not just because I think Archie in the long run will be happier with Betty. I felt the other characters showed more growth and the couples' bonds were stronger. That's probably why the AMB side faced more tragedies than AMV. The AMV side had more tension between couples, break ups, threats of divorce, etc. I felt an important lead up was left out in the beginning of AMB. That is, when did Midge come on board to help Jughead at the Choc'lit Shop?   In AMV, she breaks up with Moose after closing her nail salon and very quickly, her and Jughead become an item. But in AMB, there is no mention of her befriending Jughead. We finally see her in the middle of issue#2 at the Shop reading a business book when Reggie walks in after quitting a dead end job. Her and Jughead do not officially become a couple until later on,  although it's obvious she's in love with him. I just felt those two should have gotten a better background story at the very beginning since they got married in the Betty-verse.


Quote from: SAGG on April 06, 2018, 11:30:32 PMI just finished reading it through Comixology in the volumes. I'd recommend using the Unlimited service to just "borrow" a published book, then when you finish it, "return" it. You'd pay a monthly fee. I think it's worth it, but I digress. On to the story, or in this case, stories, since there are two of them, with Archie either marrying Betty (AMB) or Veronica (AMV).

Both universes had good stories in the soap opera style, if you're into that sort of thing. LWA was unique in that it showed The Gang & Co. all as adults, not as a dream, but as actual, real stories. I found myself referring the AMB universe as the more realistic storyline, though the AMV one may have been the more exciting storyline with the Fred Mirth angle. However,  I wonder what happened to him? Did he vanish from the face of the earth? Dangling plot device unanswered.

That little crossover between the two stories was interesting, but I had some confusion because Archie seemed to be all over the place as he and his other self switched places. Seeing Ambrose was nice, but having him as the "connection" between the two realities was strange at best, but I  guess the writers had to explain how the realities merged. I think I'm glad he settled in the AMB universe. He seemed far better a fit there.

I'm speeding it up a bit to the end, obviously with Archie's death as the main plotline. I noticed that the writers shrewdly "merged" both universes because I couldn't tell which one was which. Maybe it didn't matter, which was the point.

I've obviously skipped several points, which I hope others here will chime in on. What do you guys think? Thanks....
I believe Fred Mirth was extradited back to the U.S. in issue 35 and Veronica was going to testify against him


Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 07, 2018, 09:26:36 AMOne thing that stuck out in my mind is how in the Bettyverse, Betty turns into a workaholic and a neglectful spouse, her "responsible" side just totally subsuming her personality... she's got so many things going on and so many commitments that she's forgotten how to live and enjoy life, instead being dominated by her "Type A personality" achiever-oriented goals. That struck me as a little out of character for Betty, or at least kind of sad. Of course it's also true that people DO change, so who's to say for certain.
Yeah, I believe that whole Betty (type A personality) storyline was created to put tension in her marriage to Archie. And this storyline began soon after Archie and Veronica finally reconciled in AMV. Betty was always a people pleaser, so she wanted to show she was up for the job. She also realized getting the Vice Principal position would mean a substantial raise in pay. She just went about it the wrong way. And despite her and Archie were having issues, I never got the feeling it would get to the point that they would split up for good. Unless, of course, Archie decided to hook up with Bella Beasley.
  Did anyone else notice that sometimes a character would unknowingly make a reference to something that was happening in the other universe? For instance, in issue#15 AMB, Archie mentions to Jughead that "if he married Veronica instead, then maybe she wouldn't have gotten on that plane that was lost." Jughead tells him if he married Veronica "he would probably be divorced by now". At that time over on the AMV side, Veronica had filed divorce papers against Archie. Also, again on the AMB side, issue#5. Mr. Lodge reveals to Archie that he is the one destroying Archie's and his friends' lives unless he leaves Betty and marries Veronica. Archie imagines how his life would be with Veronica and envisions himself in a loveless marriage with her. Which was kind of what his marriage in AMV had become.


Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 07, 2018, 01:41:17 AM
Quote from: SAGG on April 06, 2018, 11:30:32 PMI'm speeding it up a bit to the end, obviously with Archie's death as the main plotline. I noticed that the writers shrewdly "merged" both universes because I couldn't tell which one was which. Maybe it didn't matter, which was the point.

Well, obviously the two universes couldn't actually be merged, because then you wind up with the Schrödinger's Cat-like probability paradox of a universe where Archie is married to both Betty and Veronica... but I do take your meaning, as the "Death of Archie" final story arc of LWA was being intentionally vague in details to the point where it could have been taking place in either, or both, the Bettyverse and the Veronicaverse. Oddly enough I remember 'way back on the old (pre-server crash) forum where someone else (I've forgotten who, now) argued that there were definite clues placing the DoA story in (I think it was) the Bettyverse, and I don't remember what those clues were or if I even recognized them.

In general, as the series neared its end and it became obvious that it would be necessary to wrap up the long, convoluted plot of many details and characters, there seemed to be lots of bits either summarily explained away rather casually, or forgotten altogether and left dangling. Things had gotten very science-fictional about three-quarters of the way through the run, and then they gradually moved away from that to end it all with Archie's death.
To me, the way how the other characters' story outcomes were left dangling was pretty sad.  We never find out if Reggie gets engaged or married. Do Moose/Ilana, Ethel/Dilton or Mr. Weatherbee and Louise get hitched. And how are Jughead/Ethel  doing after a year of marriage, or Jughead/Midge seeing their son take his first steps? I felt Miss Grundy's death actually had a bigger positive impact on Archie and the gang than Archie's death because of the the story ended. I don't blame Paul Kupperberg. He wanted to keep the story going at least to give a more complete ending.

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