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I read this four times and I still don't get it.
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:04:02 PM
I read this four times and I still don't get it.
Because Archie gets on their nerves, maybe?
But Archie isn't in the story DeCarlo Rules posted.
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:16:32 PM
But Archie isn't in the story DeCarlo Rules posted.
But Mrs Cooper is talking about him
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?
Oh, I thought Mrs. Cooper was talking to her
husband on the phone. I don't know then :-\
I think he's talking about how Archie directly or indirectly causes them problems. But Mr. Cooper actually gets off fairly easy compared to Lodge and Weatherbee. I think Ms. Grundy would be a better third option.
I'm just wondering why this picture, it seems more like it's about Veronica than Archie but then why Mr. Weatherbee?
De how about telling us what's going on?
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 17, 2016, 07:18:45 PM
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:16:32 PM
But Archie isn't in the story DeCarlo Rules posted.
But Mrs Cooper is talking about him
If Archie is into vintage records, maybe he can tinker with Mrs. Cooper's turntable. ;D
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:16:32 PM
But Archie isn't in the story DeCarlo Rules posted.
Mrs. Cooper tells Mr. Cooper (on the other end of the telephone) that Betty is upstairs in her room with Archie. Mr. Cooper is upset about the idea of his teenage daughter being up in her room alone with Archie, and asks what they're doing up there. Mrs. Cooper replies "I think he's tinkering with her turntable, dear." (Meaning, he's trying to fix her record player.) That sounds like some kind of euphemism for fooling around to Mr. Cooper, and just makes him madder. It's really not that complicated, Daren. Mrs. Cooper obviously trusts Betty enough that she feels okay with leaving her up there with Archie unsupervised, but the idea makes the overprotective Mr. Cooper nervous. Also see this story. (http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/stupidcomics196.html)
As for my title to this thread, those adults whom Archie causes to get upset or irate, should start a support group. I left Fred Andrews out of that list, because as Archie's father, he'd be as likely to defend him against the others' complaints as to agree with them. Miss Grundy could also be a part of that group, but it seems to me that her annoyances stem from her students in general (Jughead, Reggie, Veronica, Moose included) either not being studious and responsible in doing their assignments and paying attention, or otherwise disrupting her classroom somehow so that she can't teach. Ultimately though, any serious problems Miss Grundy has with Archie become Mr. Weatherbee's headache.
Now the exact nature of the perturbation among Mr. Weatherbee, Mr. Lodge, and Mr. Cooper differs. In Mr. Cooper's case, since Archie spends much less time hanging around his house than he does at the Lodge mansion, his problem is not as serious - but his worries do extend to anytime that Archie and Betty might be spending alone together, and not in public. His major concern with Archie is that he can see how easily Betty swoons in his presence, so his chief worry is with any hanky-panky that might be going on between them when someone isn't there to keep a watchful eye on them. Although it's hardly ever been mentioned by him outright (I can think of only one story that might qualify), another irksome point against Archie in Mr. Cooper's view of him is the way Archie treats his daugher as second fiddle to Veronica Lodge. Not that he bears any ill will towards Veronica about this, but of course Hal Cooper is very protective and rightfully proud of Betty, and the fact that Archie causes Betty any hurt must make him very angry at times. Now, we don't see Hal Cooper's interactions with Archie anywhere near as much as we do Mr. Lodge's and Mr. Weatherbee's. Most of the time, he seems like a quiet man, and an even-tempered parent, and this is attributable to the fact that as long as having Archie around seems to make Betty happy, all is good. BUT, if Archie should ever
try to take advantage of his little girl, or
break Betty's heart... you get the impression that Hal Cooper is the mostly likely one to snap, and go on a rampage with a shotgun.
Mr. Lodge's concerns are different -- he's annoyed at how much time Archie spends hanging around his house in general, and concerned at the potential chaos and destruction he causes to his home and anything in it (plus Hiram himself always seems to be the target of slapstick physical comedy involving Archie). What the two fathers of Betty and Veronica have in common is that they both think Archie is poor boyfriend material (or potential son-in-law material...
GASP!) who is unworthy of their daughters (and of course, they're both right).
Mr. Weatherbee's problems with Archie somewhat overlap Mr. Lodge's in the chaos-and-disruption category, but in some ways (since he's not relating to Archie as a potential son-in-law) he sees Archie differently, and acknowledges that he's not really a bad boy, just an unintentional problem student. What all three of these men have in common though, is their typical reaction to their problems with Archie. They get livid, their blood pressure shoots up, they shout a lot.
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?
Veronica can be demanding and even rude at times, but even she wouldn't talk to to the adult Mrs. Cooper that way on the telephone. I can't imagine why you'd think she would.
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 17, 2016, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 17, 2016, 07:18:45 PM
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:16:32 PM
But Archie isn't in the story DeCarlo Rules posted.
But Mrs Cooper is talking about him
If Archie is into vintage records, maybe he can tinker with Mrs. Cooper's turntable. ;D
Alice is looking pretty good on this page. It's a little weird how when you're reading the digests sometimes, you'll come across two stories, not separated in time by too many years, in which the Moms look SO different. There's a whole bunch of stories by Bob Bolling where (the teenage) Archie's mom looks more like his older sister, and I used to scratch my head and wonder whether Bolling didn't just somehow forget that he wasn't drawing a LITTLE Archie story. Then just the other day I read a Bolling story in a digest where you can tell by the style that it's not much older than those where Mary Andrews looks slim and young (another one of those stories was right next to it in the same digest issue). In this story, she still looks kind of young, but is significantly heavier (but otherwise is recognizable as the younger version of Mary Andrews Bolling drew in stories that are a little more recent).
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 18, 2016, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?
Veronica can be demanding and even rude at times, but even she wouldn't talk to to the adult Mrs. Cooper that way on the telephone. I can't imagine why you'd think she would.
Because this whole story was posted on the old forum. Yes it is Veronica on the other end of the phone. This is from the the period when some writers wrote her being one step removed from the wicked witch of the west so that shouldn't be a surprise.
I think it is obvious that Veronica is pissed off on the other end of the phone when she hears that Archie is up in Betty's room. Th tinkering with Betty's turntable is suppose to suggest something else I suppose. ;)
Quote from: daren on April 21, 2016, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 18, 2016, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?
Veronica can be demanding and even rude at times, but even she wouldn't talk to to the adult Mrs. Cooper that way on the telephone. I can't imagine why you'd think she would.
Because this whole story was posted on the old forum. Yes it is Veronica on the other end of the phone. This is from the the period when some writers wrote her being one step removed from the wicked witch of the west so that shouldn't be a surprise.
Do you know where I can find the whole story (or give me a title or something)? That is
outrageous behavior even for Veronica. Maybe not in the real world where teenagers really do shout at their parents (nevermind
other people's parents), but this is Riverdale, where teenagers actually respect some boundary lines. The weird thing is that judging from the way Alice Cooper is drawn here, it doesn't look like the story even fits into the time period where Veronica's behavior was completely out of control and over-the-top (the 1970s, mainly). Alice looks like she's from the late 80s or even the 90s, when the moms were gradually allowed to look less like grandmothers (they all slimmed down and lost weight and just generally looked younger, with only Mrs. Lodge retaining the silver-haired look).
On the other hand, I can recall several stories where Hal Cooper gets upset about the idea that Archie (whose reputation as a Casanova is obviously known to Mr. Cooper, who was a teenage boy once himself) might be alone and unsupervised with Betty, whom he's also well aware goes all weak in the knees whenever she even thinks about Archie.
No sorry it was on the old forum so its all gone now and I never noticed the title, all I can tell you is Veronica called to talk to Betty and freaked when she heard Archie was in Betty's room then I think she goes over to the Coopers'. The writers were still writing Veronica as a bitch in the '80s so I'm not surprised.
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.
So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.
So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.
It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 29, 2016, 02:38:57 AM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.
So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.
It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.
I wish they would have brought back a bit of her craziness once in a while, just to add a little spice. I love her either way, but it was very entertaining to see her coming up with wild and crazy schemes.
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 29, 2016, 02:02:04 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 29, 2016, 02:38:57 AM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.
When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.
So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.
It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.
I wish they would have brought back a bit of her craziness once in a while, just to add a little spice. I love her either way, but it was very entertaining to see her coming up with wild and crazy schemes.
It's not just Betty though. There's this general shift in emphasis to most of the stories, where once past the mid-1960s, the wilder, woolier, and whackier type of Archie stories just fades. Things had to gear up in the late 1960s when the number of titles increased, and there was also a parallel with the same issue of parental concerns that affected television animation at that time. They knew that parents had their eyes on them and were more aware of the comics than ever before. ACP had a lot riding on those animated cartoons for the better part of a decade, from the late 60s through the late 70s.