Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 10, 2017, 02:56:08 PM

Quote from: terrence12 on August 10, 2017, 10:10:47 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 10, 2017, 08:47:51 AM
Hey, everything they've been publishing (except the digest stories) since mid-2015 has been an "alternate take" as far as I'm concerned. And before that, Afterlife With Archie. And before THAT, Life With Archie, and before THAT, "New Look Archie" and "Manga Sabrina".

Ok,Ok so most of the brand stories except the main one are  alternate takes of the characters.

You still failed to grasp my point, terrence. What you are calling "the main one" IS an alternate take, no different than the rest of those I mentioned (and the many others I failed to mention). If it's not "classic Archie", then by definition it's "an alternate take". And at its current longevity of 22 issues, it still has a long way to go to beat the previous alternate take record-holder (Life With Archie magazine).

That's not to say I dislike all alternate takes. There are plenty of them "in the classic Archie style" (as they used to say in the ads for the digests)... Pureheart the Powerful (& friends), Jughead's Time Police, Archie 1, Archie 3000!, Archie's Weird Mysteries, Agents B&V, Archie's Explorers of the Unknown, Jughead Jones Semi-Private Eye, Betty & Veronica's Storybook, Archie Cyber Adventures, Betty Cooper Super-Sleuther, etc.

Before the appearance of Your Pal Archie #1, ACP had completely ceased publishing any "regular, non-alternate" Archie comic books in the floppy comics format for two years, while the new 5-page "regular" stories in the digests continued on.

Sorry,I was just understanding and you have a good point most publications of Archie comics are alternate versions of the main characters

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 10, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
I agree zombies and werewolves are gross but not AS gross as chicks dressed like bikers in my opinion.  I want to stress that I'm a hardcore feminist and believe women who want to be bikers should do so.  I'm only stating a personal preference when it comes to what art I want to look at.  I have a certain image of Betty and Veronica and that's what I prefer.  It's not that I think it's WRONG that they're making them bikers, it just turns me completely off.   BUT as I said, I'll give issue one a try and if the writing is great, I'm sure I can deal with the image.  It will just have to be REALLY great. 

It will be interesting to see whether this turns out to be Betty & Veronica "dressed like" bikers, or Betty & Veronica AS bikers. There's a huge gap between those two to me. Not all bikers are the same, but as long as they remain Betty & Veronica (as I understand them), and there's some sense of humor to it, I'll be happy with it. Adam Hughes' version did not meet those requirements for me.

Can they be convincing (in whatever context they're using, which may turn out to be more fantasy than reality) as bikers, and still BE Betty & Veronica? That's what I'm interested in finding out. I suspect that a little TOO much reality here could torpedo the whole idea, because it would force the characters to change to fit the situation. If it turns out that the Vixens in the story are merely lookalikes for B&V, and aren't really those characters at all, as they've been previously established, I'll drop it like a hot potato.

Normally I'd find a female who doesn't bathe and wallows around in filthy mud with a bunch of pigs to be a turnoff to me personally (in real life), but you know what? In comics, Moonbeam McSwine really made that look work for her.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 11, 2017, 02:24:36 AM
It will be interesting to see whether this turns out to be Betty & Veronica "dressed like" bikers, or Betty & Veronica AS bikers. There's a huge gap between those two to me. Not all bikers are the same, but as long as they remain Betty & Veronica (as I understand them), and there's some sense of humor to it, I'll be happy with it. Adam Hughes' version did not meet those requirements for me.

I think it will be the later as this will take place in the world where Betty and veronica are bikers but they will still be betty and veronica

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 11, 2017, 02:24:36 AM
Can they be convincing (in whatever context they're using, which may turn out to be more fantasy than reality) as bikers, and still BE Betty & Veronica? That's what I'm interested in finding out. I suspect that a little TOO much reality here could torpedo the whole idea, because it would force the characters to change to fit the situation. If it turns out that the Vixens in the story are merely lookalikes for B&V, and aren't really those characters at all, as they've been previously established, I'll drop it like a hot potato.

Well since the vixens series takes place in the world where betty and veronica are bikers ,I think they will change but they will always be betty and veronica

Why oh why can't they make a Betty and Veronica series marketed towards women?

Quote from: irishmoxie on August 11, 2017, 02:12:24 PM
Why oh why can't they make a Betty and Veronica series marketed towards women?

I agree.  Even though I'm male, my taste runs more toward what women read, especially in comics. 

Quote from: irishmoxie on August 11, 2017, 02:12:24 PM
Why oh why can't they make a Betty and Veronica series marketed towards women?

You know,That's a good question.Why Archie couldn't make some betty and Veronica comics aimed at women,Even though the times are changing that people can read whatever they like gender or not.

Quote from: terrence12 on August 11, 2017, 09:16:22 PM

Quote from: irishmoxie on August 11, 2017, 02:12:24 PM
Why oh why can't they make a Betty and Veronica series marketed towards women?

You know,That's a good question.Why Archie couldn't make some betty and Veronica comics aimed at women,Even though the times are changing that people can read whatever they like gender or not.

VIXENS is written by a woman (Jamie Rotante), and drawn by a woman (Eva Cabrera). Why would you think it wouldn't be marketed towards women? If the concept doesn't float your boat at all, then perhaps you should discuss the topic of why all women don't like the same type of comics with Jamie Rotante, whose idea it was. It would be a mistaken assumption to think that all women just naturally like the same comics that you do. Do you think all men like exactly the same type of comics? The biggest thing I think you're missing here is that ALL comics combined have such a tiny audience relatively speaking, compared to television and movies. MOST people have no interest in comics whatsoever, whether they are male or female, but historically, far fewer women have adopted the the habit of reading those traditional floppy comic books. Many may feel such a stigma towards the format that they wouldn't even consider touching them, while they may not necessarily feel the same about a graphic novel or a manga paperback. But that's assuming they've been exposed to comics in that format to begin with, which is by no means a given. These aren't always so obvious considerations to female readers of digital format comics, because they just assume anyone could get them, so what's the problem? I think it's more a question of "But why would they want to in the first place?" If you assume there's nothing of interest to you there, then you're not looking -- but publishers can't sell female-oriented titles to a potential audience that isn't even looking.

But if you want a real answer to your question in general, just look at all the attempts Marvel (especially) has made to market comics written and drawn by women, featuring female protagonists. There just aren't enough women readers reading comics in the floppy format, that mainly have to be purchased from a comic book store, to support a title all by themselves. If the title doesn't also appeal to male readers as well, then it's certainly doomed to be cancelled right from the start. That may work fine for manga paperbacks, but that's because both the economics and the distribution are entirely different.

Let's take a look at that cover again... (this is the main cover, with artwork by interior artist Eva Cabrera).



Maybe I'm a little dense here, but could you tell me, specifically, what it is about that cover image that seems to you like it's obviously appealing to a male reader, as opposed to a female one? Because I can easily think of at least a half-dozen things about that design that are dead wrong in terms of M-appeal.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 12, 2017, 12:46:37 AM

Quote from: terrence12 on August 11, 2017, 09:16:22 PM

Quote from: irishmoxie on August 11, 2017, 02:12:24 PM
Why oh why can't they make a Betty and Veronica series marketed towards women?

You know,That's a good question.Why Archie couldn't make some betty and Veronica comics aimed at women,Even though the times are changing that people can read whatever they like gender or not.

VIXENS is written by a woman (Jamie Rotante), and drawn by a woman (Eva Cabrera). Why would you think it wouldn't be marketed towards women? If the concept doesn't float your boat at all, then perhaps you should discuss the topic of why all women don't like the same type of comics with Jamie Rotante, whose idea it was. It would be a mistaken assumption to think that all women just naturally like the same comics that you do. Do you think all men like exactly the same type of comics? The biggest thing I think you're missing here is that ALL comics combined have such a tiny audience relatively speaking, compared to television and movies. MOST people have no interest in comics whatsoever, whether they are male or female, but historically, far fewer women have adopted the the habit of reading those traditional floppy comic books. Many may feel such a stigma towards the format that they wouldn't even consider touching them, while they may not necessarily feel the same about a graphic novel or a manga paperback. But that's assuming they've been exposed to comics in that format to begin with, which is by no means a given. These aren't always so obvious considerations to female readers of digital format comics, because they just assume anyone could get them, so what's the problem? I think it's more a question of "But why would they want to in the first place?" If you assume there's nothing of interest to you there, then you're not looking -- but publishers can't sell female-oriented titles to a potential audience that isn't even looking.

But if you want a real answer to your question in general, just look at all the attempts Marvel (especially) has made to market comics written and drawn by women, featuring female protagonists. There just aren't enough women readers reading comics in the floppy format, that mainly have to be purchased from a comic book store, to support a title all by themselves. If the title doesn't also appeal to male readers as well, then it's certainly doomed to be cancelled right from the start. That may work fine for manga paperbacks, but that's because both the economics and the distribution are entirely different.

I guess that make sense since people can reade what ever books they want to read despite their gender.As for japan they still categorize the shounen (boys),Shojo (girls),Seinen(adult men) and Josei (adult women) in their manga magazines.Maybe  in the future manga will no longer be categorize by genre and gender  but by age instead so that people with different gender can read whatever  manga  they like

I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised to discover that manga collections, when sold in Japanese bookstores, are categorized in any other way than by separating them into their own demographic sections, according to gender and age. "Men's comics", "Women's comics", "Boys' comics", "Girls' comics".

Here in North America, however, manga collections are routinely just alphabetized by title in bookstores.

In comic book shops, floppy comics are all sorted by some combination of alphabetically and/or by major publisher, a with a small minority of "Kids' comics" sequestered off to the safety of their own little island or corner. At least after they've all been moved out of the "This Week's Comics/New Releases" section.

That right there tells you something. Those two consumer bases in two different countries are completely different animals, because the surrounding culture dictates so.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 12, 2017, 02:48:30 AM
I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised to discover that manga collections, when sold in Japanese bookstores, are categorized in any other way than by separating them into their own demographic sections, according to gender and age. "Men's comics", "Women's comics", "Boys' comics", "Girls' comics".

Here in North America, however, manga collections are routinely just alphabetized by title in bookstores.

In comic book shops, floppy comics are all sorted by some combination of alphabetically and/or by major publisher, a with a small minority of "Kids' comics" sequestered off to the safety of their own little island or corner. At least after they've all been moved out of the "This Week's Comics/New Releases" section.

That right there tells you something. Those two consumer bases in two different countries are completely different animals, because the surrounding culture dictates so.

You have a good point there