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Author Topic: The Jughead/Veronica Feud  (Read 106972 times)

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Thrillho

Re: The Jughead/Veronica Feud
« Reply #210 on: July 08, 2016, 05:50:23 PM »
Like daren said upthread, Betty was the one entrusted to Jellybean's care, Veronica didn't even know Jellybean would be coming with them and she shouldn't have had that responsibility foisted on her unexpectedly. So yes, if you want to blame anyone for Jellybean not having a minder, blame Betty, she knows Veronica is going to take a nap yet she goes for a swim anyway, even though she is the one who agreed to babysit Jellybean that day. If Betty is the one being paid or even just agreed to babysit without compensation, she is the one who has to follow through with her promise. Now if this was an emergency situation where Betty had to run off, I would fully expect Veronica to step up, but this wasn't it. Furthermore, there's no legos in this story for Jellybean to choke on so there was no risk of that happening.

In hindsight, I can see where Betty made a fundamental error in judgment in choosing to ask her best friend to accompany her and Jellybean to the beach, and imagining that while at the beach she might still do a little swimming. I guess people sometimes do stupid things when they let themselves be influenced by friendship, and it was unreasonable of Betty to presume on that friendship and burden Veronica. Obviously she should have asked Brad. Or Midge, or Nancy, or Ethel, or one of those otherwise unnamed girls who walks through the foreground of the panels in those beach stories who she knows that also attends Riverdale High. Anyone but her best friend.



Babysitting isn't about what the sitter wants to do, it's about taking care of the child. I know because I babysat all through high school and college and I never purposefully ignored my charge for self-indulgent reasons. Betty cannot be upset Veronica didn't want to watch her when she didn't even tell Veronica in advance that Jellybean was joining them. Note that Veronica informs Betty first that she's taking a nap and Betty decides to leave anyway. That's when Betty should think, my swim can wait, or I can come to the beach another day when I don't have to watch Jellybean. Mrs. Jones hired Betty, when you hire someone for something you expect them to follow through not delegate the responsibilities to someone else, so yes if something happened to Jellybean while Veronica was napping and Betty was swimming all the blame would be on Betty. Mrs. Jones didn't hire Veronica to watch Jellybean she hired Betty, she is paying Betty. If Betty wanted Veronica to do her a favor, she would actually need to ask Veronica if she is willing to watch her, and it would be unfair of Betty to expect Veronica to do her work for her and not offer to compensate her, it's not like Veronica is her intern.

DeCarlo Rules

Re: The Jughead/Veronica Feud
« Reply #211 on: July 09, 2016, 01:07:02 AM »
Like daren said upthread, Betty was the one entrusted to Jellybean's care, Veronica didn't even know Jellybean would be coming with them and she shouldn't have had that responsibility foisted on her unexpectedly. So yes, if you want to blame anyone for Jellybean not having a minder, blame Betty, she knows Veronica is going to take a nap yet she goes for a swim anyway, even though she is the one who agreed to babysit Jellybean that day. If Betty is the one being paid or even just agreed to babysit without compensation, she is the one who has to follow through with her promise. Now if this was an emergency situation where Betty had to run off, I would fully expect Veronica to step up, but this wasn't it. Furthermore, there's no legos in this story for Jellybean to choke on so there was no risk of that happening.

In hindsight, I can see where Betty made a fundamental error in judgment in choosing to ask her best friend to accompany her and Jellybean to the beach, and imagining that while at the beach she might still do a little swimming. I guess people sometimes do stupid things when they let themselves be influenced by friendship, and it was unreasonable of Betty to presume on that friendship and burden Veronica. Obviously she should have asked Brad. Or Midge, or Nancy, or Ethel, or one of those otherwise unnamed girls who walks through the foreground of the panels in those beach stories who she knows that also attends Riverdale High. Anyone but her best friend.



Babysitting isn't about what the sitter wants to do, it's about taking care of the child. I know because I babysat all through high school and college and I never purposefully ignored my charge for self-indulgent reasons. Betty cannot be upset Veronica didn't want to watch her when she didn't even tell Veronica in advance that Jellybean was joining them. Note that Veronica informs Betty first that she's taking a nap and Betty decides to leave anyway. That's when Betty should think, my swim can wait, or I can come to the beach another day when I don't have to watch Jellybean. Mrs. Jones hired Betty, when you hire someone for something you expect them to follow through not delegate the responsibilities to someone else, so yes if something happened to Jellybean while Veronica was napping and Betty was swimming all the blame would be on Betty. Mrs. Jones didn't hire Veronica to watch Jellybean she hired Betty, she is paying Betty. If Betty wanted Veronica to do her a favor, she would actually need to ask Veronica if she is willing to watch her, and it would be unfair of Betty to expect Veronica to do her work for her and not offer to compensate her, it's not like Veronica is her intern.

Like I said, Betty assumes certain things because she considers Veronica her best friend. They often do favors for each other, or team up to do something together. Maybe you think "if Betty has a job to do, then she shouldn't be at the beach trying to have fun with her friend at the same time", but Betty isn't viewing having Jellybean along as "work", she just sees it as an opportunity to have some fun with Jellybean, and her best friend at the same time. She doesn't really separate work from friends that way, and she doesn't see Jellybean as some kind of burden that prevents them all from having fun together. She can't quite get a handle on the fact that Veronica doesn't see it that way at all, because Betty is acting as if the three of them are actual sisters, which is indicative of the way Betty feels towards both of them.

Betty asked Ronnie "Can I trust you two together?" (the phrasing of which almost seems to invite a negative reply) and Veronica doesn't make much of a protest about it, she just says "Don't be long". That was her opportunity to declare "Hey, don't expect ME to do your job for you" or some other remark (polite or angry, whatever it takes to get the point across) indicating to Betty that she didn't want to be left alone with Jellybean, and I never said she wouldn't be justified in doing so, especially if she's convinced that Jellybean is "out to get" her. If she really believes that, she should be trying to convince Betty (who clearly dismisses that theory), or just letting Betty know she's not willing to do that favor for her, or if not -- she should just be paying attention to what Jellybean is doing, if for no other reason than looking out for herself.

Whether it's wrong for Betty to presume on the friendship or not, by not voicing a protest, Veronica tacitly agrees to allow her to leave Jellybean there. It's Veronica who suffers by not paying attention to Jellybean, and I can't blame that on Betty -- she's not being paid to watch Veronica. So Veronica needed to make up her mind here -- either let Betty know she didn't want her to go or tell her to take Jellybean with her - or, once Betty is gone, just pay attention.

All of this is beside the main point of the story, which to me, is that by forcing Veronica endure a situation where she has to deal with a child -- something which she finds awkward and uncomfortable -- something positive emerges, Veronica reaches out and forms an emotional bond, and she makes a new friend in Jellybean. She wins Jellybean's approval by putting up with her pranks with patience and good humor, rather than responding with anger or vindictiveness, and after trying to buy her affection with gifts, she finally shows that she's sincere in trying to make friends with her by showing Jellybean that she's capable of seeing the humor in laughing at herself. Jughead is dismayed to discover that "They've made her one of THEM!", and Veronica exits triumphant, which is a really nice ending.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 04:22:12 AM by DeCarlo Rules »

daren

Re: The Jughead/Veronica Feud
« Reply #212 on: July 19, 2016, 02:37:26 AM »
I finally manage to get back on this board but I don't know if I want to put my entire reply yet since tomorrow I might have another connection problem and won't be able to answer anyone so I'm just answering one thing today, your comment to Thrillho

Quote
I take this to mean that were you walking along in the park, and happened to see a child sitting by herself, obviously choking on something, you'd do absolutely nothing, because it's not your problem. You chose wisely in avoiding having children.


Since I've been saying the same things as Thrillho and I also said I might not want kids this must apply to me too.  :P  Seriously, saying you don't want kids does not mean you're insensitive to them or a bad person, Thrillho seems like one of the nicest people on the board not deserving of that remark.




Now switching channels I just read (or reread, I don't remember) a Mark Waid interview about Jughead and Veronica from earlier this year, so to answer Thrillho's post three pages back wondering what he plans for them here's a piece of it.




CA: The idea of conflict between these characters seems like it’s tough to pull off when you’re dealing with a cast like this. Obviously, that’s not a concern with Reggie, since he’s always been a pretty die-hard jerk, but how do you approach it when it’s someone like Veronica? Is it tough to show us what Archie sees in her and what Jughead sees in her at the same time?
[/size][/color]MW: No, because Jughead cannot abide her. Nonetheless, he makes some peace with her specifically because he knows it’ll hurt his best friend if he doesn’t. The thornier relationship is between Betty and Veronica. You know, come to think of it, Betty and Jug are pals, but I don’t know that any of the other character combos work in this world without Archie in the middle as cement.[/font]




[/color][/size]CA: Speaking of, the biggest change for the characters came with Jughead, who gets an origin story involving his family’s fall from wealth into bankruptcy. How did you approach that, and why? [/color][/size][/size]


[/size][/color]MW: It was all about the hat. I love Jughead. I love his one-step-removed perspective on everything in Riverdale. And I love the fact that he wears that stupid hat. The only way a high school kid can get away with wearing that hat each and every day is if he just doesn’t care what other people think of him, not one bit — a rare emotional maturity for a teenager.[/font]
[/size][/color]So I asked myself why Jughead would be that bulletproof emotionally, and the answer I hit upon — which also plays on the real secret of the Archie comic as I see it, which is that it’s at heart a story about class warfare — was that Jughead had to learn the lesson young that it doesn’t matter what people think about you as long as you’re cool with yourself.[/font]
[/size][/color]Showing that, as a boy, he was rich and thus surrounded by friends, and then was poor and most everyone turned away from him, cemented to Jug that if you’re going to survive in this world, you have to develop a thick skin when it comes to the slings and arrows of other kids.[/font]
[/size][/color]CA: Does that give Jughead’s enmity towards Veronica a sharper, more personal edge?[/font]
[/size][/color]MW: Oh, yes. I mean, in my mind, Jughead and Veronica have always been oil and water, and the only reason Veronica’s body hasn’t been found floating in the reservoir with Jughead’s fingerprints on her throat is because Jughead can’t really work up enough energy to care that much about anything other than food.[/font]

[/size][/color][/font]
[/size][/color][/font]
I don't know if I like the sound of this. Class warfare, wtf? I might make my reading hiatus on this book permanent.  :P

Re: The Jughead/Veronica Feud
« Reply #213 on: April 22, 2018, 10:24:30 AM »
I remember reading a story where Veronica tricked Jughead into eating a hot sauce and I think it's the only story I've read where V manages to win. Any others? Usually Jug gets the upper hand in the ending

 


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