QuoteI specifically asked that you make an argument without the buzzword diversity right above the part you quoted.  You didn't do it.  You just repeated yourself.

You could replace "diversity" with "a more accurate representation of real life in current times", my wording is just more concise.

QuoteIf I remember correctly and you're the same person who argued about this with me in the previous forum, I think you have some higher education, right?  Use some critical thinking skills and explain yourself without using words like diverse, diversity, POC, or saying "It's 2016," "things are different now," "it's not 1950 anymore," etc. like a politician.  If your argument is sound, it should be able to stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

I'm not the same person you argued with before, more than one person disagrees with you. Things are different now, the comics have evolved to be more reflective of our times.

QuotePersonally, I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.  What we're usually talking about with this kind of stuff is ideological white guilt.  I doubt SJWs would be crying about Korean soap operas and how they need more white people in them to create "diversity." 

If Korea has a large percentage of minorities all over the country, then yes, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be represented but I'm not arguing about Korean shows.

Quote
Heck, notice how you don't care that Josie and the Pussycats were made racially singular, because white characters were changed to black.  In that case, the diversity was literally removed.  Yet, you don't care.

Diversity wasn't removed because we still have plenty of main characters like Archie, Betty and Jughead who are all white, in fact, the majority of the cast is white. It's not like the pussycats where the only white characters in the show and changing their race eliminated any representation of white people.

Quote

QuoteThe point is Archie Comics has always been diverse right from the get-go and everyone was accepted for who they are. There were old people, young people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, beautiful people, nerds, jocks, freckled people etc.

Those were all done for entertainment purposes to create character conflicts, comedy, etc.  They weren't put there to make faux-liberals feel warm and fuzzy about "diversity" like you are suggesting they were put there.

It also adds a richness to the property that makes it more relatable. You yourself are using buzzwords in your argument with "faux-liberals" and "SJWs" when you are asking me not to use them.

Quote

QuoteThen over the years they added more diversity like having black characters such as Chuck as the look of America started to change and now we have a gay person with Kevin Kellar. Diversity isn't new with Archie, it's just been updated to include more diversity in races to represent today. If the show was set in the 50s, that would be a different story, but it isn't.

Again, do you even read this stuff?  Black people have been in the US for hundreds of years.  It's not a new "change."  There were also other races in the US in 1950.  In fact, there were Hispanic characters in Archie Comics in the 70's

 

The change isn't that Black people arrived in the US at the time, the change is from the authors of Archie updating their comics to reflect the times when Black people were starting to get more equal rights.

QuoteSo that brings me to my next point.  If minority characters already existed, then why does Archie Comics need to change the race of Veronica, Reggie, etc.? And notice how they added Kevin Keller.  They didn't change other characters.  So why do they have to change those characters now?

Kevin Keller is a popular character so they could easily bring him on the show and have people recognise who he is. No one knows much about the other minority characters that were introduced recently so those characters have practically no chance of playing a major role on the show, at most it would be a cameo.

Quote
I think reggies race does matter, because he's a snooty have it all white kid who makes fun of everyone. He can be a prejudice person.
He has a stupid white Rich kid persona.

He can be a stupid Asian/Black rich kid and still be prejudice.

QuoteAnd if they changed Archie's race I think we'd all be scratching our heads because of his signature look. I believe he had an Irish/Scottish background?
Like I said before Archie is very multicultural as is, if they just add all characters in so will the show.

They could make new characters of different ethnic groups but the cast of famous Archie characters is already very large so I don't see them wanting to do that.

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

Quote from: old_jughead on April 06, 2016, 01:04:23 AM

QuoteAnd if they changed Archie's race I think we'd all be scratching our heads because of his signature look. I believe he had an Irish/Scottish background?
Like I said before Archie is very multicultural as is, if they just add all characters in so will the show.

They could make new characters of different ethnic groups but the cast of famous Archie characters is already very large so I don't see them wanting to do that.

The stupid thing is that they aren't even trying to use the character they do have Chuck & Nancy, Valerie's brother Trevor, Ginger Lopez (even if Maria & Frankie are deemed too nearly forgotten) and if they want actual diversity & relatability why isn't Ethel there, or Brigette? Because anyone who isn't unrealistically beautiful and young isn't on the agenda? So the teachers and parent get a makeover? So much for any sort of actual realism ...

Quote

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

Was it before the crash that I suggested a turned ball cap, or something of that ilk? without something I don't see the point of even calling him Jughead ...

I'm actually coming around to this series the more I read about it. It's sounding exactly like what I want. They seem to be going all out with an unapologetic, soap opera trashiness that I enjoy.    My only real complaint is that they've mainstreamed Jughead because he was such a unique and non-mainstream character but I'll try not to let it ruin the comic book character for me.

Quote
The stupid thing is that they aren't even trying to use the character they do have Chuck & Nancy, Valerie's brother Trevor, Ginger Lopez (even if Maria & Frankie are deemed too nearly forgotten) and if they want actual diversity & relatability why isn't Ethel there, or Brigette?

Well this is just the pilot, they could still add those characters later on, even seasons on if the show lasts. Chuck and Nancy seems very likely candidates to be in the show.

Quote

Quote

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

Was it before the crash that I suggested a turned ball cap, or something of that ilk? without something I don't see the point of even calling him Jughead ...

I hope they give him some sort of unique hat to wear that's both realistic and Jughead like, he did try a lot of different ones at times throughout the comics.

Quote
You could replace "diversity" with "a more accurate representation of real life in current times", my wording is just more concise.

"current times." I asked you specifically to put out an argument that doesn't use those kind of meaningless rhetorical terms.  Can you not do it?

Also, that's not what diversity even means.  Diversity is the opposite of homogeneity.  It has no inherent positive or negative qualities. 

And how is having 5 white characters in a made up story inaccurate in regards to anything current?  Do 5 white people no longer congregate with each other anymore in our current times?  Did racial minorities not exist in the past as you previously suggested?  You have no argument so far other than repeating that it's the currently the present.  This is a comic book forum, not a political action committee.  Stop pulling out rhetoric that sounds like it was lifted from a crappy 2008 Barack Obama speech.

QuoteI'm not the same person you argued with before, more than one person disagrees with you. Things are different now, the comics have evolved to be more reflective of our times.

Again "things are different now" and "reflective of our times."  You just can't stop doing this.  Do you have anything else?

QuoteIf Korea has a large percentage of minorities all over the country, then yes, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be represented but I'm not arguing about Korean shows.

Do you ever read anything you write?  Archie Comics already had minority characters represented.  Regardless, with your stand point, does that mean stuff that is made in the US and is only about minorities is incorrect?  Logically, that would be your stand point.  Like if a movie is made with a black cast, are they being incorrect for not including white people, Asians, Hispanics, etc.?

QuoteDiversity wasn't removed because we still have plenty of main characters like Archie, Betty and Jughead who are all white, in fact, the majority of the cast is white. It's not like the pussycats where the only white characters in the show and changing their race eliminated any representation of white people.

I don't think you're an Archie fan if you don't think Josie and the Pussycats is an important stand alone property.  Hell yeah, the diversity was removed from Josie and the Pussycats in this example.  And yeah, Josie and Melody being white was part of their characters, and they should have stayed how they were intended.  This damages their intellectual property for sure.

QuoteYou yourself are using buzzwords in your argument with "faux-liberals" and "SJWs" when you are asking me not to use them.

The difference is I can construct an argument without them based on logic that doesn't sound as utterly shallow and childish as yours and can be applied to any situation.  You only have your SJW terminology and talking points to fall back on.  Also there are plenty of minority fans that don't want this, yet you don't care what they think, because your white guilt "progressive" ideological political nonsense is more important to you.

QuoteThe change isn't that Black people arrived in the US at the time, the change is from the authors of Archie updating their comics to reflect the times when Black people were starting to get more equal rights.

Slavery ended in 1865.  The 15th amendment was passed in 1870.  Brown vs. the Board of Education happened in 1954.  The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964.  The Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.  None of this happened in 2016.  If the comics were okay having 5 white people from 1940's through 2016, it's okay now, and you are being ludicrous suggesting other wise.

QuoteKevin Keller is a popular character so they could easily bring him on the show and have people recognise who he is. No one knows much about the other minority characters that were introduced recently so those characters have practically no chance of playing a major role on the show, at most it would be a cameo.

Kevin Keller is not mainstream.  His comic got canceled for bad sales.  He doesn't have wide recognition among the general populace.  People on this forum know about the other minority characters, because they read the comics, unlike you have I guess.  So what's wrong with developing the existing minority characters instead of treating them like disposable garbage?

Quote from: old_jughead on April 06, 2016, 01:04:23 AM

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

I doubt he will be wearing his crown hat.  And this new "Jughead" is not even into food anymore. They are changing him to be addicted to coffee instead

Quote from: kassandralove on April 06, 2016, 12:47:36 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 06, 2016, 12:41:14 PM

Quote from: old_jughead on April 06, 2016, 01:04:23 AM

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

I doubt he will be wearing his crown hat.  And this new "Jughead" is not even into food anymore. They are changing him to be addicted to coffee instead

Seriously ??

Yes. It seems that way. I can't find the link where they mention it, but someone posted it on the old forum

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 06, 2016, 12:41:14 PM

Quote from: old_jughead on April 06, 2016, 01:04:23 AM

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

I doubt he will be wearing his crown hat.  And this new "Jughead" is not even into food anymore. They are changing him to be addicted to coffee instead

Some time ago, I predicted they would eventually make him into a vegan.  Does he drink his coffee with non-dairy creamer?   

Found the link! http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/29/ive-read-the-script-for-the-tv-pilot-for-archie-comics-riverdale-f-bombs-murder-noir-rainbow-parties-and-cougars/

QuoteThe script begins with a narrator talking about the town of Riverdale, and how it isn't what people think. We are shown what may be familiar locations, the city hall, the cinema, Pop's Chok'lit Shoppe Diner, but also derelict buildings with boarded up walls, graffiti and meth addicts. Because this is the real Riverdale, all of it, folks. This isn't just Archie the TV series. It's Betty & Veronica Mars.

It starts with the death of Jason Blossom, Cheryl Blossom's twin brother and doesn't stop. This is a Riverdale with kids who talk about Rainbow parties, a Reggie who gets badly drunk, a Riverdale of strip joints, and, yes, a just-16 year old Archie sleeping with his music teacher and then using it to blackmail her. And suggestions of twincest too.

So who do we have, and how does the script describe them? Jughead is an "emo-heartthrob". Jason and Cheryl Blossom could have stepped from an Abercrombie & Fitch catalogue. Pop Tate is Greek. Veronica and her divorced mother are "two dark haired beauties", Betty is "Blonde, pretty, 16″, Kevin Keller, her gay confident is "16 cute", sexually active on Grindr and dealing with a homophobic military dad. Keller is the Archie Comics main gay character, but rather the passive character of the comics, here he is a little more in your face- though slightly reserved when he gets down to it . And Archie Andrews is 16, red haired – indeed his hair colour is constantly mentioned, Josie refers to him as "Justin Gingerlake" – recently buffed up after working for his dad's construction company over the summer and lives next door to Betty, who is madly in love with him. And Veronica? She just wants a boy toy to pass the summer and she's never gone ginge before.

Oh and there's the language. I mean it's relatively tame compared to what, you know, most actual teenagers say, but then so is The Wire. But we get a number of S-bombs, mentions of spank-banks, Archie is asked by Reggie Mantle if he "tapped any MILF ass this summer?" I know some of you reading this will think I've made this up. I have not.

But for all the shock value, and there is plenty of that, this is a clever, well balanced, teen thriller of a TV show. Funny, dark, expressing the confusion of characters who, rather than the sure stereotypes of the classic Archie comics, are teenagers who frankly don't yet know who they are, so why the hell should we? It's the beginning of a journey, as people, circumstances, bodies, lives begin to change. It's not just a coming of age story but a coming of the ages.

The dialogue is the kind of stylised reality we know from the likes of Buffy and Veronica Mars, but errs towards the latter in its darkness. So it's all clearly fake, as if teenagers had writers rooms helping them with their every line, but it is consistent, engaging, rewarding and creating its own reality that just sucks you in.

And yet many of the plotlines seem utterly familiar. The competition for Archie's favour. Trying out for the cheerleading squad. Making the sports team. Who takes who to the school dance, and who gets set up with whom against their will. Playing spin the bottle. And going to the diner for strawberry milkshakes. And jughead still has that stupid at – though he is no friend of Archie. Not anymore. He's also a caffeine addict rather than a hamburglar – and he wears a hearing aid because he's deaf.

An intentional irony as this Archie has become a songwriter – so not only can we see his angst, we get to hear it too. This is Aguirre-Sacasa's tale of an outing just like in his banned play all those years ago, rather than just of sexuality, it's of ambition, of talent, of expression. Though of a fashion rather different to that of Josie and the  Pussycats – yes, who are all there sporting their cat ears, and rather dismissive of Archie and his ambitions. His mission is to escape the rather literal destiny of his father's concrete company, expected to one day take it over. The last thing he wants... is to be set in the same ways as his father. Yes, the allegory is rather sledgehammered home.

Oh and then there's *that* kiss...
Riverdale is going to be massive. One Million Moms will hate it even more than Lucifer. But the last time I read a script that so convinced me, it was for Preacher. And I'm putting that "Betty & Veronica Mars" line on a T-shirt.

After re-reading this, I have got to think this is a joke, right? It really can't be true. The person who wrote the article is messing around with our minds, right? .....

I have a prediction.  Jason Blossom is dead because Cheryl killed him because he was molesting her.  If you get into the hackneyed mind of Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa that he used to create Edgydale, it becomes obvious.

QuoteAfter re-reading this, I have got to think this is a joke, right? I really can't be true. The person who wrote the article is messing around with our minds, right? .....

Isn't that the writer who said he never read old Archie Comics but still called them "conservative"?  Remember what I said about these writers?

QuoteIsn't that the writer who said he never read old Archie Comics but still called them "conservative"? Remember what I said about these writers?

True. He is that 'I'm not familiar with Archie but I don't like it because it's a  saccharine, un-self-examined, humorless Happy Days. However it has transformed from conservative to progressive which means for the first time I can read it and make it to the end' guy.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 06, 2016, 06:02:45 PM

QuoteIsn't that the writer who said he never read old Archie Comics but still called them "conservative"? Remember what I said about these writers?

True. He is that 'I'm not familiar with Archie but I don't like it because it's a  saccharine, un-self-examined, humorless Happy Days. However it has transformed from conservative to progressive which means for the first time I can read it and make it to the end' guy.

This is why internet nerd media SUCKS.  It's ran by idiots that don't care about the stuff they write about, politicize EVERYTHING and hold the regular fans in disregard.  It's sad though that Archie Comics probably takes this stuff at face value, producing a positive feedback loop because they are viewed as "progressive" now, which means they'll never receive critical feedback or the fans' point of view.  At least for other industries, you can at least get a decent objective assessment of what is or isn't wrong with the product or business model.

I wonder why they made the show "edgy"?

Quote from: BlueBomber2015 on April 07, 2016, 12:22:31 AM
I wonder why they made the show "edgy"?

Becathey want to tarnish the company as a whole.  I hope ACP "dies" as an independent, and is bought out by Disney.