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Riverdale TV Series

Started by Imnotmark, April 02, 2016, 10:30:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

steveinthecity

Quote from: Upsiditus on January 15, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 11, 2017, 10:35:30 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 11, 2017, 09:29:26 PM
I mean, we wouldn't want stories about Archie driving a jalopy and the characters making jokes about women drivers now a days, would we?


I would. I like those stories. There's something really endearing about them.
But I get what you're saying. And yet, even if throughout the years Archie has always been trying to be up to date with the modern times, the comics still feel vintage-y and nostalgic. At least that's how I feel about them. I don't know how to explain it exactly. Like for example, me as a kid in the 1980s reading 80s Archie stories, I never felt like they were modern. They always had that old (in a good way) feeling. Same in the 90s, same in the early 2000s. That is what I love about them. The classic, vintage, innocent feeling. That's what this new spin is lacking.


   When fictional stories are set in the present, they are not supposed to be any specific year, from what I understand.
Not trying to be contentious, but wouldn't the "present" be more more or less a specific year?  Give or take.

Comics!

steveinthecity

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 04:20:39 AM
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 09:06:47 PM
hm interesting how going against the norm, being different, and "going your own way" absolves you of all sexuality.

Like in language. We have words. That mean things. You can say you don't fit into any category all day long but in all honesty, you still actually do.

If Jughead had shown interest in girls none of you would be avoiding calling him straight just because weird people don't fit into labels. But whatever.

I think I already covered this in a post above, but he has shown interest in girls. But only in SOME stories. In others he's a "woman-hater", and other characters in the story specifically identify him by that label. I probably can't find a specific example to post here, or even more difficult to pin down, one where he identifies himself as a woman-hater (although it's certainly easy to find stories where he expresses his criticism of the female gender as a whole), but I can remember reading stories like that. The ones where he shows interest in girls are much easier to identify, and some of them are harder to quantify. One subject of debate revolves around Jughead's love relationship with January McAndrews, Marshall of the Time Police and a future descendant of Archie Andrews, which has raised a few eyebrows among people wondering just what exactly is going on there. There are even stories where Jughead dates Big Ethel and winds up having a good time. But it seems that in some stories he most definitely IS straight. Another good example of those would be LIFE WITH ARCHIE magazine (a.k.a. THE MARRIED LIFE in TP), where Jughead is married to Midge Klump.
Your argument doesn't fit or support the agenda. 
Comics!

Upsiditus

Quote from: steveinthecity on January 16, 2017, 12:35:25 AM
Quote from: Upsiditus on January 15, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 11, 2017, 10:35:30 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 11, 2017, 09:29:26 PM
I mean, we wouldn't want stories about Archie driving a jalopy and the characters making jokes about women drivers now a days, would we?


I would. I like those stories. There's something really endearing about them.
But I get what you're saying. And yet, even if throughout the years Archie has always been trying to be up to date with the modern times, the comics still feel vintage-y and nostalgic. At least that's how I feel about them. I don't know how to explain it exactly. Like for example, me as a kid in the 1980s reading 80s Archie stories, I never felt like they were modern. They always had that old (in a good way) feeling. Same in the 90s, same in the early 2000s. That is what I love about them. The classic, vintage, innocent feeling. That's what this new spin is lacking.


   When fictional stories are set in the present, they are not supposed to be any specific year, from what I understand.
Not trying to be contentious, but wouldn't the "present" be more more or less a specific year?  Give or take.


  Fiction set in the present is supposed to speak to audiences for many years after it is written and thus doesn't want to be tied to one specific year.

steveinthecity

Quote from: Upsiditus on January 16, 2017, 09:28:08 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 16, 2017, 12:35:25 AM
Quote from: Upsiditus on January 15, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 11, 2017, 10:35:30 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 11, 2017, 09:29:26 PM
I mean, we wouldn't want stories about Archie driving a jalopy and the characters making jokes about women drivers now a days, would we?


I would. I like those stories. There's something really endearing about them.
But I get what you're saying. And yet, even if throughout the years Archie has always been trying to be up to date with the modern times, the comics still feel vintage-y and nostalgic. At least that's how I feel about them. I don't know how to explain it exactly. Like for example, me as a kid in the 1980s reading 80s Archie stories, I never felt like they were modern. They always had that old (in a good way) feeling. Same in the 90s, same in the early 2000s. That is what I love about them. The classic, vintage, innocent feeling. That's what this new spin is lacking.


   When fictional stories are set in the present, they are not supposed to be any specific year, from what I understand.
Not trying to be contentious, but wouldn't the "present" be more more or less a specific year?  Give or take.


  Fiction set in the present is supposed to speak to audiences for many years after it is written and thus doesn't want to be tied to one specific year.
I guess I don't agree.  The "present" is in constant flux. Reading fiction 20 or 30 years after publication changes the perspective.  At least to me. Maybe we're talking about two different things.
Comics!

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: Upsiditus on January 15, 2017, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 11, 2017, 10:35:30 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 11, 2017, 09:29:26 PM
I mean, we wouldn't want stories about Archie driving a jalopy and the characters making jokes about women drivers now a days, would we?


I would. I like those stories. There's something really endearing about them.
But I get what you're saying. And yet, even if throughout the years Archie has always been trying to be up to date with the modern times, the comics still feel vintage-y and nostalgic. At least that's how I feel about them. I don't know how to explain it exactly. Like for example, me as a kid in the 1980s reading 80s Archie stories, I never felt like they were modern. They always had that old (in a good way) feeling. Same in the 90s, same in the early 2000s. That is what I love about them. The classic, vintage, innocent feeling. That's what this new spin is lacking.


   When fictional stories are set in the present, they are not supposed to be any specific year, from what I understand.

You can find many stories where the year is mentioned, if not a specific month or day. When those stories get reprinted years later in the digests, the year originally mentioned is edited to change it to the time of the current reprinting.

Time in general is a problem for Archie comics, because the basic premise is that any story taking place in "the present" means that Archie and his friends are in their Junior year at Riverdale High. Therefore, no matter how long ago a story was printed, no more time can have passed between that story and "the present" current Archie stories than the summer prior to the start of Junior year (which is always the current year, or September of the year before). Internal evidence of the time of year tells you when, during (or just before) the current school year the story is taking place. It's kind of a problem because certain events are going to occur only once during the course of the gang's Junior year at RHS, so when there's a story about a class election or the Junior Prom, it immediately voids all previous stories (as far as any continuity is concerned) based on those events that were printed in earlier-published comics.

Upsiditus

I recall in the book Archie: His First 50 Years, author Charles Phillips refers to the Archie characters (Archie and his classmates) as being 17.  Also there was a song on the first Archies LP called "17 Ain't Young."  This led me to believe that Archie is supposed to be a high school senior.

DeCarlo Rules

#411
Quote from: Upsiditus on January 17, 2017, 09:19:17 PM
I recall in the book Archie: His First 50 Years, author Charles Phillips refers to the Archie characters (Archie and his classmates) as being 17.  Also there was a song on the first Archies LP called "17 Ain't Young."  This led me to believe that Archie is supposed to be a high school senior.

It's not a great book. I wouldn't put too much stock in what you read in it as gospel truth. And if you want to take your information from The Archies' songs, then you probably believe Archie has a girlfriend named Sheila and a rival named Waldo P. Emerson-Jones.

But if you want to know the real reason Archie and his friends are Juniors in Riverdale High School, it's because Riverdale High is really Haverhill High School, and Archie is really Bob Montana. Bob Montana always said he based Archie on himself, and Riverdale High on his old high school, Haverhill High -- because at the time Archie was created, Bob considered those years at Haverhill High the best years of his life. But Bob Montana never completed his Senior year at Haverhill High, as his family then moved from Haverhill to Manchester, NH. When people asked him about Archie, he never mentioned that year he spent as a senior at Central High in Manchester. Most of the cast of characters of Archie are all based on people Bob Montana knew while at Haverhill High.

Upsiditus

  I would suppose at some point, Archie probably did date a girl named "Sheila."  I never understood the song "Waldo P. Emerson Jones"-presumably he would be related to Jughead, and yet this is never explained. 
    There must be stories that claim that Archie and his classmates are juniors (and perhaps a few that give their age as 16).  However, most stories don't claim a grade or age, and the idea of them being seniors works just as well.  There can't be much continuity-the Archie from Archie Comics Number One would be in his 90s now...

DeCarlo Rules

#413
Quote from: Upsiditus on January 18, 2017, 09:11:05 PM
  I would suppose at some point, Archie probably did date a girl named "Sheila."  I never understood the song "Waldo P. Emerson Jones"-presumably he would be related to Jughead, and yet this is never explained. 
    There must be stories that claim that Archie and his classmates are juniors (and perhaps a few that give their age as 16).  However, most stories don't claim a grade or age, and the idea of them being seniors works just as well.  There can't be much continuity-the Archie from Archie Comics Number One would be in his 90s now...

Maybe Archie did date a girl named Sheila at some point, but did he ever date someone named "Skooby Doo"? It's best not to think too much about the lyrics of The Archies' songs as applying to the characters and stories. Especially if you really listen to the lyrics of the song "Hot Dog".

The internal logic of the stories points to nothing specific to them being seniors. There are even stories that have them making reference to other students (incidental characters) as being seniors, which implies that Archie and the gang are not. If they were, they'd have to worry about college applications, or what their plans were for after graduation. Maybe Archie and Jughead don't spend much time thinking about that stuff, but what about Betty, Veronica, or Dilton? There are plenty of stories where we see the school year ending and summer vacation beginning, but we never saw them having a graduation ceremony. Even Prom stories don't have any finality to them, with any of them acting as if this is the last Prom they'll ever attend, which would be the case if they were seniors.

No, the only thing that makes sense is that they don't worry too much about that stuff just yet, because when school lets out for summer vacation, they know they'll be back at RHS again next September. This is the last time in their high school education that they won't have to worry about their lives changing dramatically in the next few months. And indeed they are back from summer vacation in the fall -- only somehow, by the magic of comic books, the summer vacation after their junior year has magically become the summer vacation before their junior year when they return to classes in September.

Upsiditus

You have hit on why this won't work as a live action TV series.  They can only do one season because the next year they would have to move up a grade.  If they did a cartoon it could go on for many years, like the Simpsons. 


DeCarlo Rules

#415
Quote from: Upsiditus on January 22, 2017, 08:21:36 PM
You have hit on why this won't work as a live action TV series.  They can only do one season because the next year they would have to move up a grade.  If they did a cartoon it could go on for many years, like the Simpsons.

Not quite, though. The series is called RIVERDALE, not "Riverdale HIGH". Of course the actors are going to age, and they know that. They can't be playing 16/17 year-old high school students for more than two seasons.

BUT this TV series is already breaking all the ground rules established in the Archie comic books, so having Archie and his friends graduate and continue on beyond high school seems like a minor thing in the context of all the major changes from the comics that we know they're making so far.

SABRINA the live-action TV series went on for 7 seasons, and they didn't cancel it because she was no longer a teenage witch. Or if you want a few better parallels in terms of thematic background, take HAPPY DAYS (11 seasons), THAT 70s SHOW (8 seasons), and DAWSON'S CREEK (6 seasons) -- all shows whose focal characters started out as teens in high school.

Besides, RIVERDALE already "won't work" for me. But there are certainly hit TV series that 'don't work' for me that manage to capture enough of an audience to run for years and years. Case in point... I never really watched SABRINA when it was on the air, yet it didn't need my help as a viewer to succeed as a television series. Another good example would be LOIS AND CLARK. Or perhaps even more precisely on point in terms of making an analogy here -- I submit for your examination: SMALLVILLE (10 seasons) and GOTHAM (3 seasons, and counting). Both 'based on' youthful versions of Superman and Batman respectively, but vastly different than the source material of the comic books. If you wanted to point a finger directly at 2 shows inspired BY more so than adapted FROM comics, to serve as models for RIVERDALE, those would be the ones -- even the title RIVERDALE is telling us as much (otherwise, why not title the series ARCHIE, a word which would certainly invoke greater recognition among the public as adapted from a comic book?). I would advise any Archie comics readers to adjust their expectations of the adherence of RIVERDALE to the source material of Archie Comics accordingly.

Whether or not those programs worked for comic book readers was irrelevant in terms of whether they succeeded or not as television shows. The stamp of approval of the consensus of comic book fans means nothing because those viewers are a fractional percentage of the overall viewing audience (although it may be noted that a sizable segment of the comic reading audience was not put off by those shows' lack of faithfulness to the source material of the comics).

To show an example of the direct opposite, comic book fans who watched the animated series YOUNG JUSTICE were rabid in their support of the series (despite the show's deviation from the source material established by DC comic books published prior to its airing), yet that wasn't able to keep it on the air, and it was cancelled after only 2 seasons -- because the show failed to capture the much larger younger demographic that Cartoon Network wanted, the consumers of show-based merchandise like action figures and toys. The toy line produced by Mattel fizzled, so they weren't going to pony up any more TV advertising revenue -- because the show was written at too sophisticated a level for the younger viewers who were the main consumers of toys to follow, even though the older comic book fans loved it.

terrence12

Look, I know i don't like the series for not giving  faithfulness to both the classic and reboot elements that is comedy and they should have made it as a sitcom but that show gains  positive reviews for its pilot though the ratings didn't rise up yet,I think the reason for the positive reviews is that most people didn't read the classic archie comics but read the reboot especially that the show has the elements of the reboot though i wish they could have make it as the live action archie drama comedy series.


So i think the show will at least run for 5 seasons according to my opinion or at least jump the shark when it becomes long running.


But still i hope Archie comics will make another live action tv series and make it faithful to the core elements  of both classic and reboot  that is comedy but make it as a comedy drama series aimed for older audience  since the source material has innuendos and let it air on some different network maybe mtv,freeform or maybe netflix.

ASS-P

...I am fascinated to see discussion of the characters, age AND Archies lyrics here !!!!!!!!!!! :smitten:
  However , my posting circumstances mean that I haven,t read this whole line , so excuse me if I repeat :-\ ...
  (1) Re: the gang[size=78%],s age and HS years , I came into the statement that they were perpetual ophomores fairly recently...AND , only becoming aware of the Archie website giving facts about the characters this century I think,,,And I do recall initially seeing a sttement there that Archie was 16/17 (and I guess the other males were...16 , with no specification that they might be , ever , 17 ? To maintain Arch,s apha dog status ?[/size] 8) ) while B&V were stated to be 15/16 , I am sure of that , as if maintaining the custom that men go out with women who are younger than them - The , later on , the site,s official statement was that BV were 16...As if , bluntly , to keep them at least within the : younger end : of the age of consent as it tends to be understood in the U.S.  ;D
(Technical note: US ages of consent , decided on a state-by-state basis - tend - I think , anyway - to allow : relations/,
marriage with someone who is also young or has gotten consent/from the person,s parent - kind of : trining driver : status - at 16 with I guess absolute full age of consent universally , nationwide ,  starting at 18 .)
(2( Archies lyrics ? Yeah , try listening to : Archie,s Party : sometime :o :D :idiot2: :P  !
  Or , : Feelin; So Good SKOOBY DOO : indeed , if you want to assume that the gang are , religiously , Catholics or (Arguably ?) other more : small-o orthodox/high church : Christian denominations - Anglican/Episcopalian , big-O Orthodox  - rather than  the I guess?? evangelical Christianity I suppose the Spire titles woul put them in the pew ;)  of !

ASS-P


What are : DMs : ?










[size=78%]k=topic=40.msg8214#msg8214 date=1483753744][/size]
Quote
Are you a plant from ACP?
Do you mean Archie Comics? No, I don't think they'd hire me at all! I don't think they'd like me very much. I was trying to get them to give me a copy of an unaired Archie cartoon back from 2013 (I looooooveeee the Archie cartoons!) and they threatened to turn off their DMs  :'( 


That would be really cool, though!

DeCarlo Rules

#419
Seems doubtful they could be sophomores, or younger than 16. Archie, Reggie, Veronica and Betty all have some kind of driver's license -- possibly a provisional/restricted license, but not a learner's permit, which would require they be accompanied by an adult with a valid license while they're behind the wheel. Most states won't issue even a restricted license until age 16, and NO state will issue a full license at less than 16. And a restricted license would usually require them not to be on the road past a certain time (could be anywhere from 9 pm to midnight, depending on the state), and/or require them not to carry any more than one or two passengers.

Nope. Juniors in high school is really the only thing that works without significant complications of some sort. They have mobility and greater freedom than they did just a year or so earlier, but they don't have to worry about college or career plans for next fall.

The Archie character names and likenesses are covered by the registered trademarks/copyrights of Archie Comic Publications, Inc. and are used with permission by this site. The Official Archie Comics website can be visited at www.archiecomics.com.