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Shoutbox

  • Tuxedo Mark: My reviews of "Photo Finish" [link] and "Hotshot Friend" [link] from Betty and Veronica Digest, No. 177.
    November 26, 2019, 08:23:14 pm
  • ASS-P: Briefly - There were none.
    November 26, 2019, 07:18:28 am
  • Tuxedo Mark: My reviews of "Drop The Shopping" [link] and "Rerun Fun?" [link] from Betty and Veronica Digest, No. 176
    November 25, 2019, 11:10:54 am
  • Tuxedo Mark: My reviews of "Drop The Shopping" [link] and Rerun Fun"
    November 25, 2019, 11:09:54 am
  • ASS-P: I'm standing across from s Safeway, I'm a-going to go in and see if they have any Archie digests...
    November 22, 2019, 02:39:05 pm
  • rusty: Both digests are out.  I don't have them yet because I get my comics monthly, but they are listed in my next shipment from Mycomicshop which means they have them in stock.
    November 21, 2019, 05:57:11 pm
  • Mr.Lodge: What happened to "Archie Jumbo Comics Digest #304" and "World of Archie Jumbo Comics Digest #94"? Not out yet?
    November 20, 2019, 05:30:30 pm
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  • Brandytasir: hello
    November 18, 2019, 11:03:38 am
  • Fernando Ruiz: I don't know where the idea originated for the "Archie meets Archie" story. I know one day Victor Gorelick gave me the assignment to write a story where the current Archie meets the first appearance Archie. It was going to be for a digest celebrating whatever anniversary they were celebrating. That.
    November 17, 2019, 02:47:30 am
  • Mr.Lodge: The first batch of "Memory Lane" stories were the best but were never given the chance to "conclude" properly. The 10th Anniversary one are total crap.....
    November 16, 2019, 06:10:50 pm
  • Tuxedo Mark: @Fernando Ruiz I never heard that before! Good to know! :)
    November 16, 2019, 06:08:57 pm
  • DeCarlo Rules: Nice to establish that. I forgot about that Twilight Zone episode! But of course, the phrase "a stroll down Memory Lane" is a familiar euphemism, so TZ took that as a literal plot device. The Memory Lane stories were the beginning of a fertile period for ACP, idea-wise.
    November 16, 2019, 05:05:30 am
  • Fernando Ruiz: Responding to the comments for the "When Archie Meets Archie" review, the idea for "Memory Lane" was mine. I borrowed it from an old Twilight Zone episode and thought it was a nice convenient device for the story.
    November 15, 2019, 10:23:33 pm
  • Tuxedo Mark: My review of "When Archie Meets Archie..." [link] "The Late Great Veronica!" [link] and "2 For 1 Sale!" [link]
    November 09, 2019, 06:19:36 pm
  • Mr.Lodge: Have these meatheads provide their email address and send them an email to confirm their identity - may help.
    November 08, 2019, 01:56:14 am
  • DeCarlo Rules: Is ARCHIE AND ME digest ending with #23 later this month? It doesn't appear on the list of digest titles in the most recent subscription ads from this month...
    November 07, 2019, 01:50:15 am
  • ASS-P: I can't figure out, onbthis new phone, how to post either a new one or a reply!!!!!
    November 03, 2019, 05:56:39 pm

The Crazy Betty/Villainous Veronica Thread!

Started by BlueBomber2015, April 15, 2016, 12:44:55 am

Previous topic - Next topic

DeCarlo Rules

The ULTIMATE "Crazy Betty" story -- from ARCHIE #156, July 1965 -- "Woman Scorned"  --  Because you can't get much crazier than attempted murder.








DeCarlo Rules

May 16, 2016, 05:58:45 am #61 Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 06:48:06 am by DeCarlo Rules
It's worth noting that the above story marks a high water mark (or extreme of the pendulum swing) for Crazy Betty stories. They may have realized afterwards that that one story seemed to have crossed some kind of invisible line. With the April 1966 first issue of BETTY AND ME, the pendulum would begin swinging back in the other direction, ultimately by the late 1960s establishing more-or-less permanently the "Sweet Betty Cooper".

I bet they got a lot of letters on that story, both from readers who LOVED it and those who HATED it.

The amazing thing is that the story passed the Comics Code Authority without any problems, apparently. We can probably attribute that to the fact that the comic intent and humorous drawing in any Archie story would tend disarm any serious consideration on the part of the Code's censors regarding what, in factual terms, is taking place in the story -- attempted murder on several counts, Betty's disregard for Jughead as "collateral damage", and the fact that she receives no punishment in the end (or psychiatric help) -- things that seem like they would not have been allowed in a "serious" comic book story. It's worth mentioning in passing that John L. Goldwater was not only instrumental in the formation of the CCA, but served as its Chairman for many years. Archie Comics was the last of the long-time comics publishers to finally abandon the Comics Code in February 2011, following the example of Marvel and DC Comics which had ceased to subscribe to it even earlier.

The edicts of the original Comics Code that the story possibly violates are as follows:
Quote
CODE FOR EDITORIAL MATTER
General standards--Part A
(1) Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.
(2) No comics shall explicitly present the unique details and methods of a crime.
(3) Policemen, judges, Government officials and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority.
(4) If crime is depicted it shall be as a sordid and unpleasant activity.
(5) Criminals shall not be presented so as to be rendered glamorous or to occupy a position which creates a desire for emulation.
(6) In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds.


Although it's pretty clear from Betty's conversation in the story with Jughead that she admits to trying to murder Archie, the script and artwork is circumspect in not actually showing Betty in the actual commission of said attempted murder. For example, we never see her lurking behind the fallen tree with an ax, or pushing the wagon downhill aimed at Archie, or dropping the flower pot from a window or rooftop above, so that may have helped in avoiding any closer scrutiny of the story by the CCA. They successfully avoided CCA General Standards - Part A2. Of course, she never uses the words "kill" or "murder" in her threats (of which Jughead's testimony would be admissible in court), and if Jughead can't offer any actual eyewitness proof that he saw Betty fell that tree, push that wagon load of bricks downhill, or drop that flower pot, then maybe she could never be convicted. But WE know, don't we?

daren

Well the Archie stories are in cartoon-world mode whenever any main character tries to kill someone so I can see why they let it pass even if it's not by the rules, they meant those more for horror and superhero comics. Boomerangs are pretty deadly, guess that was the last of Archie!  :)

SAGG

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 16, 2016, 05:58:45 am
It's worth noting that the above story marks a high water mark (or extreme of the pendulum swing) for Crazy Betty stories. They may have realized afterwards that that one story seemed to have crossed some kind of invisible line. With the April 1966 first issue of BETTY AND ME, the pendulum would begin swinging back in the other direction, ultimately by the late 1960s establishing more-or-less permanently the "Sweet Betty Cooper".

I bet they got a lot of letters on that story, both from readers who LOVED it and those who HATED it.

The amazing thing is that the story passed the Comics Code Authority without any problems, apparently. We can probably attribute that to the fact that the comic intent and humorous drawing in any Archie story would tend disarm any serious consideration on the part of the Code's censors regarding what, in factual terms, is taking place in the story -- attempted murder on several counts, Betty's disregard for Jughead as "collateral damage", and the fact that she receives no punishment in the end (or psychiatric help) -- things that seem like they would not have been allowed in a "serious" comic book story. It's worth mentioning in passing that John L. Goldwater was not only instrumental in the formation of the CCA, but served as its Chairman for many years. Archie Comics was the last of the long-time comics publishers to finally abandon the Comics Code in February 2011, following the example of Marvel and DC Comics which had ceased to subscribe to it even earlier.

The edicts of the original Comics Code that the story possibly violates are as follows:
Quote
CODE FOR EDITORIAL MATTER
General standards--Part A
(1) Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.
(2) No comics shall explicitly present the unique details and methods of a crime.
(3) Policemen, judges, Government officials and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority.
(4) If crime is depicted it shall be as a sordid and unpleasant activity.
(5) Criminals shall not be presented so as to be rendered glamorous or to occupy a position which creates a desire for emulation.
(6) In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds.


Although it's pretty clear from Betty's conversation in the story with Jughead that she admits to trying to murder Archie, the script and artwork is circumspect in not actually showing Betty in the actual commission of said attempted murder. For example, we never see her lurking behind the fallen tree with an ax, or pushing the wagon downhill aimed at Archie, or dropping the flower pot from a window or rooftop above, so that may have helped in avoiding any closer scrutiny of the story by the CCA. They successfully avoided CCA General Standards - Part A2. Of course, she never uses the words "kill" or "murder" in her threats (of which Jughead's testimony would be admissible in court), and if Jughead can't offer any actual eyewitness proof that he saw Betty fell that tree, push that wagon load of bricks downhill, or drop that flower pot, then maybe she could never be convicted. But WE know, don't we?
Geez Louise, where DO you get this stuff, dude? :)

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: daren on May 16, 2016, 04:15:11 pm
Well the Archie stories are in cartoon-world mode whenever any main character tries to kill someone so I can see why they let it pass even if it's not by the rules, they meant those more for horror and superhero comics. Boomerangs are pretty deadly, guess that was the last of Archie!  :)



They are in cartoon-world mode about 95% of the time, Daren. Except if it's Al Hartley's Spire Christian Comics, or some other obviously didactic story about prejudice or world peace or a Christmas miracle or something, or parts (only parts, there's still some cartoon stuff in there) of LIFE WITH ARCHIE or ARCHIE AT RIVERDALE HIGH (which really seems more like it's Chuck Clayton's comic anyway). Usually it's easy to tell if there's no gag at the end of the story.

BlueBomber2015

Wonder if the story was ever reprinted today, would it upset younger readers about a psychotic Betty trying to kill the poor kid?  I wonder if Riverdale has an asylum for Betty to be locked up in...

Chic Cooper

I'd like to contribute but I can't seem to work out how to post pictures, and I'm not a newbie or anything. When I try to upload pictures the board says they're too large & then I resize them & they're still too large? I also can't copy/paste from Photobucket or anywhere else. So...

DeCarlo Rules

May 23, 2016, 12:18:16 am #67 Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 12:23:15 am by DeCarlo Rules
Quote from: Chic Cooper on May 22, 2016, 10:17:59 pm
I'd like to contribute but I can't seem to work out how to post pictures, and I'm not a newbie or anything. When I try to upload pictures the board says they're too large & then I resize them & they're still too large? I also can't copy/paste from Photobucket or anywhere else. So...


You can absolutely share an image in your post by clicking on the "insert image" icon (bottom row, far left) and pasting in the URL for the image location. The only option for your media albums is to upload the images from your own computer (or mobile device), so you'd have to download whatever you need to upload to your media album first. It's too bad it doesn't allow you to grab an image from another site by pasting in the URL, but that's just the way it works.

Size limit for pictures in your media albums 1000x1000 pixels, so check the size of your images and reduce them to that limit or below before trying to upload.

Chic Cooper

May 23, 2016, 01:05:28 am #68 Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 02:36:04 am by Chic Cooper
Thanks DeCarlo Rules (he does) for the tips. On with the show.

Crazy Betty/Villainous Veronica, I love you so.
"If I wasn't so infatuated with him, I'd KILL HIM!" To which I reply: what's taking you so long? :buck2:









Not on your mink lined bath tub? Who says this? Besides our Betty, that is. :idiot2:

DeCarlo Rules

May 23, 2016, 02:01:10 am #69 Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 02:02:47 am by DeCarlo Rules
Quote from: Chic Cooper on May 23, 2016, 01:05:28 am
Thanks DeCarlo Rules (he does) for the tips. On with the show.

Crazy Betty/Villainous Veronica, I love you so.
"If I wasn't so infatuated with him, I'd KILL HIM!" To which I reply: what's taking you so long? :buck2:







Not on your mink lined bath tub? Who says this? Besides our Betty, that is. :idiot2:


I think you missed Page 5 in there somewhere? Before Betty spazzes out on Ronnie at the beginning of the last page, isn't there a page where she asks (or strongly implies) that she'd like Betty to do something for her?

Chic Cooper

Fixed, thanks DR.

Very politely asks, yes. With the usual results.

daren

I see a lot of panels from that story floating around.

daren


DeCarlo Rules

May 28, 2016, 07:09:33 am #73 Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:33:19 am by DeCarlo Rules



60sBettyandReggie

 
I don't know, this screams crazy to me  ;D


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