I would like to see Trula Twyst on Riverdale.

I hate Trula Twyst. Keep her locked up in Rex Lindsey backstories where she belongs.

Why? Because she's the only person capable of getting the best of Jughead? 

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on November 07, 2017, 12:12:57 PM
Why? Because she's the only person capable of getting the best of Jughead? 

I think she gets too much the best of Jughead. Trula seems to do no wrong with him, completely crippling Jughead, seemingly almost all the time. Then again, Jughead allows himself to let her really get in his head, and he gets riled up, which makes it worse...

Quote from: SAGG on November 07, 2017, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on November 07, 2017, 12:12:57 PM
Why? Because she's the only person capable of getting the best of Jughead? 

I think she gets too much the best of Jughead. Trula seems to do no wrong with him, completely crippling Jughead, seemingly almost all the time. Then again, Jughead allows himself to let her really get in his head, and he gets riled up, which makes it worse...

She outwits him. She seems to be the only one who can. When she's not, then it's business as usual. Which means Jughead Jones outwitting everyone else. Seems only fair. It prevents Jughead from getting too complacent and smug in his own superiority. A little humility is good for the soul.

And if you read the stories closely, she really isn't the Machiavellian she-demon Jughead imagines her to be. He obviously fascinates her because he's different, but at the same time he's so sure of himself, that no one can make him change or do anything he doesn't want to. He just seems to invite toppling from his position as the king of the hill. Sometimes it almost seems like in a weird way, she's doing it for his own good.

And other times, she does... nothing at all. She doesn't have to, because he's so obsessed by his perception of her.

There's no doubt about her motives, actually. She admits in one of her earliest appearances that she's "just wild about him". She's not going to do the "chasing" thing or try to work her "feminine wiles" on him, because she quickly realizes his Achilles' Heel is his attitude towards women in general. I might as well just come right out and say it. Jughead is sexist. He's never met a woman he considers his equal. Oh, he may LIKE Betty, but he doesn't consider her his equal. Veronica's buttons are just too easily labeled for him to resist pushing. Ethel's only challenge to him is her persistence and physical stamina. Beyond that, Jughead considers himself above anyone who displays any emotional weakness for the opposite sex (men OR women) and considers himself invulnerable. Trula wins because she eschews any challenge that meets his expectations. She won't try anything "feminine" that he's expecting. She'll only duel him in the one area which he considers an exclusively masculine domain -- pure intelligence. The ability to "size up your opponent", analyze their weaknesses, and predict their reactions. Jughead's been doing it to Reggie and Veronica for years, which is why nothing galls him more than to be on the receiving end. And while he may swear up and down that she's evil personified, he actually respects her on some unconscious level that he refuses to recognize.

I think a lot of his attitude towards women comes from seeing how Veronica (and others like Cheryl) treats Archie like crap even though he is too much of a lapdog for her (her fickleness doesn't help either).

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on November 08, 2017, 11:46:54 AM
I think a lot of his attitude towards women comes from seeing how Veronica (and others like Cheryl) treats Archie like crap even though he is too much of a lapdog for her (her fickleness doesn't help either).

Excellent point. Jughead sees his buddy as very pliable to girl's "wiles" (also one his strengths with them-he doesn't want to hurt any, though he does it when he sees other girls behind their backs), and he doesn't want to be treated like that. My deal with Trula is that she doesn't seem to have any flaws, which is of course not true. I seem to recall the story where Juhead stayed at her home when he was trying to prove a point to his parents about staying under their roof. We found out a little about Trula, where her parents were divorced. I think DR pointed out when she couldn't control them not staying together as a child, and she's been trying to make up for it ever since through her psychology.


I like a story where Trula gets hers, such as the one where she spreads rumors about Betty and Ronica, reversing what most people usually thought of the girls, saying Betty isn't as nice as she seems, while Ronica is much nicer than she appears, all to aid her study about people's reactions. Jughead got wind of it, and in the end, he poured some food on her in the cafeteria, and left her, all while doing it in a "gentle" manner.


I think that Jughead's friendship with Betty is the most genuine outside of Archie. Recall at the end of the classic Archie story "Decisions" (in my second album, near the front). He told Betty if he kissed any girl, it would be Betty. He also said if Archie has to like a girl, he'd prefer Betty for him, and Jughead would approve. Throughout the years, Jughead has virtually almost always helped Betty over Ronica in Betty's battles for Archie's attentions. In the most recent new Archie book, Jughead recalled a memory when they were all children, concerning Betty: Hot Dog being hit by a car, and was struggling to survive while they were all at the veterinarian's office. Archie, not understanding (though he tries), said the worse thing possible while comforting Jughead: "I know how you feel". Jughead dismissed Archie and Betty in a huff. Betty came back later and sat with Jughead while he worried about Hot Dog. He knows Betty's a good person, throughout both the classic and the new versions. That hasn't changed....

I love Trula stories. Jughead scores so many wins that it's delightful that somebody can outwit him. The fact that there's this question as to whether or not she likes him makes it even more interesting.

Quote from: SAGG on November 10, 2017, 07:51:36 AM

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on November 08, 2017, 11:46:54 AM
I think a lot of his attitude towards women comes from seeing how Veronica (and others like Cheryl) treats Archie like crap even though he is too much of a lapdog for her (her fickleness doesn't help either).

Excellent point. Jughead sees his buddy as very pliable to girl's "wiles" (also one his strengths with them-he doesn't want to hurt any, though he does it when he sees other girls behind their backs), and he doesn't want to be treated like that. My deal with Trula is that she doesn't seem to have any flaws, which is of course not true. I seem to recall the story where Juhead stayed at her home when he was trying to prove a point to his parents about staying under their roof. We found out a little about Trula, where her parents were divorced. I think DR pointed out when she couldn't control them not staying together as a child, and she's been trying to make up for it ever since through her psychology.

I like a story where Trula gets hers, such as the one where she spreads rumors about Betty and Ronica, reversing what most people usually thought of the girls, saying Betty isn't as nice as she seems, while Ronica is much nicer than she appears, all to aid her study about people's reactions. Jughead got wind of it, and in the end, he poured some food on her in the cafeteria, and left her, all while doing it in a "gentle" manner.

I think that Jughead's friendship with Betty is the most genuine outside of Archie. Recall at the end of the classic Archie story "Decisions" (in my second album, near the front). He told Betty if he kissed any girl, it would be Betty. He also said if Archie has to like a girl, he'd prefer Betty for him, and Jughead would approve. Throughout the years, Jughead has virtually almost always helped Betty over Ronica in Betty's battles for Archie's attentions. In the most recent new Archie book, Jughead recalled a memory when they were all children, concerning Betty: Hot Dog being hit by a car, and was struggling to survive while they were all at the veterinarian's office. Archie, not understanding (though he tries), said the worse thing possible while comforting Jughead: "I know how you feel". Jughead dismissed Archie and Betty in a huff. Betty came back later and sat with Jughead while he worried about Hot Dog. He knows Betty's a good person, throughout both the classic and the new versions. That hasn't changed....

Actually, in the story you're referring to ("Psyche Out!", JUGHEAD #210) where Jughead moves in with Trula and her mother (author of pop-psych bestsellers) after he has a big fight with his dad, he cracks under the stress of a week's time waiting in anticipation for Trula to begin picking his brain. In reality though, Trula has gone out of her way to be a gracious and sympathetic host, avoiding asking Jughead any personal questions about his problems at home, but Jughead can't take the stress of not knowing what's going on in Trula's mind, and decides to move out. Before he does, he asks her directly why she didn't attempt to fish around in his psyche to find out what's been bugging him lately -- he's been expecting it for days on end. But instead Trula calmly explains that it would be rude of her as a host to get nosey and pry into his personal business -- if he'd wanted her help, all he'd have needed to do was ask her.  Despite her outwardly calm and unperturbed demeanor, Trula hasn't been totally unaffected by Jughead's stay at her house though -- when she spies THIS:

-- She ultimately loses it and blows her top (it's little quirks like that of Jughead's that drive her up the wall). After Jughead has left, Trula is still curious about one thing, so she asks her mother why she so readily agreed to let Jughead stay with them. Her mother tells her that she wanted to observe Trula's own reactions to living in close quarters with Jughead for a prolonged time, as research material for a new book she's writing. What Trula has done to Jughead in the past, Trula's mom does to her (and we might infer from that, that this is just business as usual for Mrs. Twyst), which might explain something about Trula.

You're right about Betty, though. Jughead would like nothing better than to see his best pal give up this crazy idea of chasing Veronica Lodge, and settle down with a sweet, sensible, steady girlfriend who truly appreciates him, like Betty. It would be better for Archie, and it would de-complicate Jughead's life as well, but I also think he'd just like to see Betty be happy.

Not really related to Trula, but I came across this interesting short e-book (free to read) entitled ANALYZING JUGHEAD by Monique Jones. It doesn't really talk about Trula, nor is it the kind of psychoanalysis that Trula usually practices, but it's worth a look for free. I don't agree with half of what the author has to say (for some reason that escapes me, she spends 2 pages of her 25 page book talking about Jughead's suspenders and treating them in terms as if they were as iconic as his beanie or his S-shirt), but I just think it's kind of interesting that anything like this exists at all.

https://issuu.com/moniquej/docs/analyzingjugheadebook

Trula Twyst as Jughead sees her: "trouble squared, cubed, and double-polygoned".

QuoteNOTES FROM PSYCHOANALYSIS OF SUBJECT "J" (by T. Twyst):

Subject displays an active imagination, and a strong desire to cast himself in a favorable image to himself and others. Subject believes that he is being passively observed, and that his actions require justification in the form of a narrative commentary, acted out for the benefit of those observers, on events of his life.

Subject displays an involuntary strong emotional disturbance in reaction to the thought of "Trula Twyst", which causes him to break his self-defined character as an ersatz "Professor" (offering an explanation as calmly logical methodology) and disrupts his mental powers of concentration, as denoted by the logical progression of mathematical powers of ten (squared to cubed), to a non-sequitur association with nonsense-geometry ("double-polygoned"), as he symbolically casts aside his robes of professorial learning. Subject would like to believe he is a paragon of intelligence and knowledge, but when this self-delusion is shattered, he casts it aside along with his faith in his own rational ability, letting himself be guided by pure emotion.

All reactions of Subject J continue to progress according to behavioral predictions.

He makes her sound like a mutation of a "normal" girl.

Psychoanalysis of the people you know is probably not considered "normal" for any teenager, but that's Trula's thing. If any more proof were needed, for no particular reason on her part (it's not because she decided she didn't like them, or wanted revenge against them or anything) in "The Opinion Maker" (JUGHEAD #176), Trula decides to try an experiment in social modification to change what other people think about Betty and Veronica. Her interest is purely scientific, just to see if she can do it. I leave it to anyone to decide if that's "normal" or not. Yet in her own strange way, Trula's really a nice girl. When she offers Jughead a place to stay temporarily at her house, she doesn't do it (as Jughead is expecting) hoping to get anything out of it, it's done because she's sympathetic to his problems with his own family.

Trula's not like the other teenagers we know in Riverdale in that she's from a single-parent home. Her mother is an independent career woman, a successful psychologist and author, and Trula's the only character who has shown a strong desire to follow in a similar career path to her parent. Trula probably has a need to prove that her self-image isn't dependent on a relationship, like her mother, regardless of her interest in Jughead. She doesn't let her emotions rule her thoughts. Trula probably thinks the only thing necessary to get along in life is to understand how other people think and why they behave the way they do.

The thing about the Trula-Jughead relationship that's most fascinating is that it's more complex than that between any other two characters in Riverdale. Jughead considers her his archenemy, but Trula doesn't feel the same way about him. She LIKES him, as a girl. When Jughead describes her as "trouble", that's REALLY what he's talking about. For the most part, Jughead doesn't avoid girls because he's scared of them. TRULA actually does scare him, so by demonizing her he's putting up a front. But even though Jughead considers her his archenemy, he never once considers NOT buying her a Christmas present, something that boggles Archie's mind.

As a psychology student though, Jughead's unique mindset fascinates Trula endlessly. NOBODY else can figure Jughead out. Oh, they may THINK they can. Certainly every single person he knows is aware of his weakness for food, which is so much of an autonomic knee-jerk response that it comes up constantly in stories. But everything else about the way he thinks... no. Not even Archie, really, and he's his best friend. They can recognize a few general behavior patterns they've seen over and over again when it comes to Juggie, but they don't really understand the WHY of his behavior, like why Jughead would expend 5 times as much energy avoiding work as he would if he just gave into the situation and agreed to do the work. It's not the energy it takes to do the work. If you can talk him into something, he'll do it, or at least try to do it, as he agreed. But once he's decided he's NOT gonna do something, no one and nothing will change his mind, and that becomes a matter of principle for him.

When it comes to girls, there have been some that have pursued Jughead, but with Ethel, he merely has to avoid her, outrun her, or trick her in some way. If Juggie looks panicked sometimes when she's chasing him, it's merely the adrenaline of the immediate pursuit. Sometimes he relents and feels sympathy for her, when he sees how hard she tries, and decides to give her a break. What Trula manages to do that no other girl ever has is make Jughead expend a goodly portion of his thoughts thinking about HER, worrying about her, wondering what she's going to do next, and figuring out how he can resist falling prey to her traps. The one thing he CAN'T afford to do is avoid thinking about her. So to him, she's his "archenemy". After the original "Target: Jughead" story, Trula is never quite as aggressive in targeting Jughead, and maybe it's because she just feels like she's got too big of an advantage over him.

On one level, Trula is to Jughead as Jughead is to Reggie. Jughead can ALWAYS whoop Reggie's mental butt in a battle of wits, because he's figured out exactly what makes Reggie tick... how he thinks. And Trula can do the same to Jughead, which is what scares him. For every time Jughead swears up and down that Trula will never make him do this or that, he winds up doing it anyway. This is why Trula is the only girl who scares him, and what makes her his "archenemy" -- that she somehow understands Jughead's psychology better than he understands himself, and can get him to do things that he's consciously promised himself he won't do, so it feels like he's betrayed his own principles and acted in direct opposition to his conscious choices, or at least something he recognizes that he's against doing in principle.

At some point in the series of Trula stories, Jughead's paranoia over her becomes a bigger instigator for stories than anything Trula sets out to do. Jughead can figure out how Reggie thinks, because Reggie's a guy. Jughead has some idea of his own that he thinks he knows how girls think (most of which is just the negative stuff he hates about Veronica), but he actually has no clue how they really think, because he's not even interested in knowing -- girls are too alien to him, and he's never really bothered. What's the point? He's never considered he'd have any use for that information, so he's never even tried. And that's his great weakness when he comes up against Trula. He'll try to predict what she'll do, but he'll never ever actually attempt to understand her -- because he can't put himself in her place. It's simpler for him to believe there's no reason other than that she's just trying to torture him. Whether his brief time as her houseguest resulted in any change in his way of thinking is anyone's guess, since that's (almost) the last we've seen of her, but he should at least be grateful for her help.

All of the above, of course, refers specifically just to the "Craig Boldman Jughead" and how he behaves in those stories. It's just not possible to incorporate all that other stuff from the early '90s (to say nothing of the earlier stuff from the 1950s and 1960s) into a consistent character.

I'm happy to see Trula making a comeback with some new stories, including one where she is playing drums! I don't know why the character was shelved for so long. I prefer Trula over Ethel as a potential love interest for Jughead. She is more fun and, let's face it, better looking than Ethel. And despite all her "trickery", if a guy (Jughead) was to fall in love with her, she wants it to be "the old fashioned way" as she has mentioned. I read an earlier post from DeCarlo Rules stating "If Jughead was to ever get married, it would be to Trula". It would have been interesting to see these two interact as adults in "The Married Life". And I think their pairing would have worked on the Veronica side, provided Jughead went into a different profession than owning the Chock'lit Shop. I think Jughead has some power over Trula if he really wanted to use it. That is, simply by ignoring her. Maybe Archie Comics could do a story on that and how Trula's reaction would be.

Yeah, I gotta go Trula over Ethel too. Just more options for fun stories.

And the three stories I've read, two out of three were really good.