{Moved here from another thread, where it was SERIOUSLY off-topic.}

Quote from: steveinthecity on January 16, 2017, 12:53:55 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 04:20:39 AM

Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 09:06:47 PM
hm interesting how going against the norm, being different, and "going your own way" absolves you of all sexuality.

Like in language. We have words. That mean things. You can say you don't fit into any category all day long but in all honesty, you still actually do.

If Jughead had shown interest in girls none of you would be avoiding calling him straight just because weird people don't fit into labels. But whatever.

I think I already covered this in a post above, but he has shown interest in girls. But only in SOME stories. In others he's a "woman-hater", and other characters in the story specifically identify him by that label. I probably can't find a specific example to post here, or even more difficult to pin down, one where he identifies himself as a woman-hater (although it's certainly easy to find stories where he expresses his criticism of the female gender as a whole), but I can remember reading stories like that. The ones where he shows interest in girls are much easier to identify, and some of them are harder to quantify. One subject of debate revolves around Jughead's love relationship with January McAndrews, Marshall of the Time Police and a future descendant of Archie Andrews, which has raised a few eyebrows among people wondering just what exactly is going on there. There are even stories where Jughead dates Big Ethel and winds up having a good time. But it seems that in some stories he most definitely IS straight. Another good example of those would be LIFE WITH ARCHIE magazine (a.k.a. THE MARRIED LIFE in TP), where Jughead is married to Midge Klump.

Your argument doesn't fit or support the agenda.

In hindsight I find it fascinating to look back on the brief period beginning in 1987, when JUGHEAD was relaunched with a new issue #1 (August 1987), until about issue #38 (Oct.1992) - a period of about 5 years (which also included the short run of JUGHEAD'S TIME POLICE). During this short time frame, there was a lot of experimentation with the previous status quo of Jughead. He started dating, and there were a number of different women that were important in this period of his life were (besides January McAndrews over in TIME POLICE). In the very first issue, Jughead reminisces about Marci, who is referred to as "Jughead's very first groupie". In issue #5, things really begin getting stranger when a new Riverdale student, Debbie Dalton, shows up at school and all the boys are smitten by her. Even Jughead, who begins to obsess over her when he sees her talking to Archie and he's afraid that they're dating. However, it turns out that Debbie only has eyes for Jughead, and the feeling seems to be mutual, so they soon begin dating. Even Archie and Reggie begin to become envious of him. If that weren't enough, in that same issue, Juggie receives a letter from his very first friend in kindergarten, Joani Jumpp (who had a crush on him then, and still does), letting him know that she's moving back to Riverdale. When she arrives she immediately becomes jealous of Debbie, and a new "triangle wrangle" is born.



By issue #7 Jughead's image among teenage girls in Riverdale is beginning to change, in a story where the girls are hanging out at the beach, gossiping (mostly unfavorably) about Jughead. To refute their impression that Jughead is cheap and miserly, Betty tells a story about how Juggie spent his last $2 to buy some food for a couple of homeless kids, and to refute their impression that Jughead is the epitome of laziness, Midge tells the girls how Jughead stayed up all night cleaning the school to help an injured Mr. Svenson pass an important inspection. The girls insist that Jughead is the least model student at Riverdale, but when they compare notes they realize that Jughead has given several of them useful ways to ace their math homework. At first they grudgingly give him credit for all these things, but they still insist that he's a slob with no sense of style or fashion -- until fashion designer Coolvin Clean arrives in Riverdale, and spots Jughead and wants to copy his "individualist" look. All of a sudden the girls' impressions of Jughead start changing and they begin to think of him as a real sweetie, and good boyfriend material.



In issue #10 Jughead finds a genie in a bottle who offers to help him get to know girls without having to go on dates with them, so he's definitely spending more time thinking about girls. But when he winds up with two dates at the same time, Juggie decides to get rid of the genie as more trouble than he's worth. In another story in that same issue, Jughead finds a little girl lost in a snowstorm and helps her get home, earning a few kisses from the girl's older sister.



By issue #12, Jughead's former reputation among Riverdale's teenage girls has done an about-face:



Issue #14 contains a story with a rare appearance of January McAndrews outside of TIME POLICE, when she arrives to send Jughead on a mission to the past, and Joani Jumpp is also in the same story. Jan reappears in issue #18 (these appearances occurred in-between the first two Time Police stories in World of Jughead [ARCHIE GIANT SERIES] #590 & 602, and JUGHEAD'S TIME POLICE #1), and by now Jughead's romantic troubles have become even more complicated than Archie's. Things will become a little simpler for Jughead though, because this is Jan's last appearance in JUGHEAD, and Joani Jumpp announces that her family is moving from Riverdale again at the end of the story.



By issue #19, Jughead finally decides "I've Had It With Girls!" (responding, no doubt in this case, to the majority of readers' wishes).


That was only a brief respite though, because Jughead would soon begin seeing a woman psychoanalyst, Dr. Sara Bellum, and then become a skatepunk and get his head shaved in a bizarre pattern. He continued to attract new female interests like Sassy Thrasher and eventually began a new romantic relationship with Anita Chavita, a paraplegic black Latina girl -- which, in what can only be described as a bizarre twist, invoked a new mortal enemy in the form of normally mild-mannered, but now embittered, Dilton Doiley - who harbored a secret crush on Anita, and became obsessed with splitting the couple apart.


When this extended experimental phase finally ended, the title merely shifted (with about a gap of a year in which nothing particularly atypical for Jughead happened) into another change in status quo for Jughead. One that -- finally -- didn't involve any romance. In issue #50 a new female entered Jughead's life in the form of new baby sister Jellybean.


But just in case you thought Jughead's life was FINALLY free of all female entanglements, now that he'd left January, Debbie, Joani, Sassy and Anita behind him...
There was still Ethel. And Trula Twyst. ...and Bella Beazly, Wendy Weatherbee, Sadie Cameron, Sandy Sanchez, Toni Topaz, DiDi Diaz, and Sabrina...

AHA! So Ms. Bellum was in Riverdale before she went to Townsville, and became the Mayor's assistant!    It's so obvious! 

Sara Bellum as a teen = Trula Twyst

Trula Twyst as an adult = Sara Bellum

Sara Bellum came about in about 11/91

Trula Twyst came about in about 02/97

I believe the change in the 1980s came about because there was concern among many people that Jughead was gay, and homosexuality was not widely accepted in the USA at that time. 

Quote from: Upsiditus on February 15, 2017, 08:49:07 PM
I believe the change in the 1980s came about because there was concern among many people that Jughead was gay, and homosexuality was not widely accepted in the USA at that time. 

I think you're absolutely correct on that point.

A VERY fun summation of what was going on at this time! Kudos!

I had a very large fascination for this series when I was younger, as I'd read the "Doug Crane" years of Jughead in one of the Digests (it was cycling through most of them), and was REALLY impressed with both the "Jughhead Moves Away" story (which was genuinely harrowing... until they just handwaved it away in the last page), and the "Jughead Forms a Love Triangle" story.

Unfortunately, the Love Triangle just turned Just into another Archie. Even though the characters commented on that as if it were the joke (now the aloof Juggie was getting into his own Archie-style messes!), it wasn't really the best for the character. It didn't help that the sad, weepy Joani and the brassy, alternative Debbie were both turned into fawning dweebs as soon as they hooked up with our hero- even ARCHIE didn't walk around with BOTH girls hanging off of his arms!


Here's a summation I made from the RPG thread I did of the Archie gang:


Jughead's Love Triangle:
* The early '90s were a VERY weird time for Archie Comics in general, and especially for Jughead. Among the more bizarre things they did was give Jughead a pair of weird sci-fi books (a time-cop adventure with Archie's sexy female descendant, and one where he... manages a diner), and then A PAIR OF GIRLFRIENDS.

* This bizarre story came about from the same Jughead run that featured the "Jug moves away" story mentioned above. Again given drama and actual emotion, Jughead reveals in a diary that "it's not that I hate girls- I just had my heart broken when I was younger!"- it turns out that a childhood crush on Joani Jummp, the girl-next-door, resulted in heartbreak when his family moved away. In the same issue, he meets a sexy rocker-chick who's into the same kind of music he is, and begins feeling those funny tingles for the first time in forever. And just as he's about to unsteadily step into the dating pool... JOANI MOVES TO RIVERDALE. Initially, this is treated as dramatic, incredible stuff, with Jug actually being terrified out of his mind, insanely confused ("oh, JOANI" he cries, after kissing her for the first time, "Now I'm more confused than ever!"), and more.

* This came off as REALLY deep stuff to me when I was a kid, and later re-reading it as a teen. Retrospect says it's way more "Fan-Ficcy" and a bit clumsy at times- the whole "Oh actually, I'm not like X, I'm like Y!" is a classic Retcon that comes off very awkwardly. The fact that JUGHEAD JONES was now dating also shocked fans, who pretty much seemed to hate it. The following issues actually dropped the drama and made it straight-up "Wacky Dating Hijinx", with bizarre situations like Jughead walking into the Chok'lit Shoppe with a girl on each arm, both of them kissing him on the cheek and hanging onto him- something that even ARCHIE never could pull off with Betty & Veronica. Essentially, it was the world's least-dramatic Love Triangle. The best part was seeing the aloof, lecturing JUGHEAD now forced to eat crow, as he ended up doing the same thing he'd always warned Archie about for years.

* Eventually, fan complaints (and Archie's own staff) intervened, and the arc was dropped. Even THAT was handled dramatically, however, with Jughead & Debbie having the mother of all fights when he accidentally stands her up by having dinner at Joani's. Debbie looks ENRAGED in one shot (again- not cartoonish stuff- actual human-looking anger), and Jug says some stupid thing that ends up with him getting dumped ("it depends- what are you having for dinner?"- NICE GOING, JUG. That's your "I'm sorry it happened to you, Courtney- but now you know how I FELT." line right there). Next up, Debbie's suddenly got a line of guys waiting to date her, while she's all going "tee-hee" like a train of dudes following you is totally a normal thing. Jughead prepares to go back to Joani... except it's revealed that she's MOVING TO ALASKA. Her & Jughead end up having a real, tearful goodbye (though at one point, he has a freak-out when she says "the only way I could stay here is if we GOT MARRIED!"), and they cap off the whole Love Triangle Arc like that. Except, because it's Archie, Jughead's Time-Travelling Space Girlfriend January McAndrews shows up halfway through to talk him through his troubles.

* The following issue is also pretty cool, as Jughead suddenly becomes a woman-hating SONGWRITER, singing about how horrible women are and how "they all done me WRONG!" This, naturally, is like CATNIP to the female population of Riverdale, leading to numerous songs that go increasingly-sexist until Betty & Veronica refuse to play them, and they get Big Ethel involved- the goofy Ethel (mostly kept out of the arc because it was too serious, and her own issues become kinda sad if you think about them for too long) ends up having a heart-to-heart with Jug, who basically confesses that he's done with romance, but isn't really willing to hate on all women anymore.

Debbie: Debbie initially came off as a cool rocker-chick with a short haircut & bangs, but shifted into a "Generic Hanger-On Girl". She's basically an entirely different character after her first appearance.

Joani Jummp: Joani is actually REALLY weird- her sole personality trait is a desperate, all-consuming love of JUGHEAD JONES. She hangs off of him, staring into his eyes, passionately going for kisses... it's almost like some weird male fantasy about the Loving Girlfriend or something. Unlike most girls in Riverdale, Joani has super-curly, long hair, making her stand out in group shots. She also has a father and chubby older brother, both of whom disapprove of Jughead and try to break them up (in the break-up story, they're seen high-fiving each other when Jug & Joani realize they won't see each other again). Joani actually appears on a few covers in her time, while Debbie gets far fewer.

Quote(in the break-up story, they're seen high-fiving each other when Jug & Joani realize they won't see each other again).

Stand-ins for the readers.

Quote from: Jabroniville on February 23, 2017, 12:10:12 AM

* This bizarre story came about from the same Jughead run that featured the "Jug moves away" story mentioned above. Again given drama and actual emotion, Jughead reveals in a diary that "it's not that I hate girls- I just had my heart broken when I was younger!"- it turns out that a childhood crush on Joani Jummp, the girl-next-door, resulted in heartbreak when his family moved away. In the same issue, he meets a sexy rocker-chick who's into the same kind of music he is, and begins feeling those funny tingles for the first time in forever. And just as he's about to unsteadily step into the dating pool... JOANI MOVES TO RIVERDALE. Initially, this is treated as dramatic, incredible stuff, with Jug actually being terrified out of his mind, insanely confused ("oh, JOANI" he cries, after kissing her for the first time, "Now I'm more confused than ever!"), and more.

The "it's not that I hate girls- I just had my heart broken when I was younger!" trope was revisited in a kind of role-reversal when Batton Lash wrote "Freshmen Year - The Missing Chapters: Jughead" for ARCHIE & FRIENDS #140. In this version, Jughead's family has moved to Montana at the beginning of Jughead's freshman year, when Jughead's dad accepts a new job offer in Selby, Montana. Jughead is enrolled in Selby High and meets Sadie Cameron, whom he quickly develops a crush on... but the new job isn't working out for Mr. Jones, and Mrs. Jones misses her old friends, so the Jones family moves back to Riverdale, and that's the last Jughead saw of Sadie. The story explains Jughead's ubiquitous S-shirt (S for Selby High, as in Archie's R-sweater for Riverdale High), and the S also reminds Jughead of his lost love, Sadie.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on February 23, 2017, 02:21:52 AM

Quote from: Jabroniville on February 23, 2017, 12:10:12 AM

* This bizarre story came about from the same Jughead run that featured the "Jug moves away" story mentioned above. Again given drama and actual emotion, Jughead reveals in a diary that "it's not that I hate girls- I just had my heart broken when I was younger!"- it turns out that a childhood crush on Joani Jummp, the girl-next-door, resulted in heartbreak when his family moved away. In the same issue, he meets a sexy rocker-chick who's into the same kind of music he is, and begins feeling those funny tingles for the first time in forever. And just as he's about to unsteadily step into the dating pool... JOANI MOVES TO RIVERDALE. Initially, this is treated as dramatic, incredible stuff, with Jug actually being terrified out of his mind, insanely confused ("oh, JOANI" he cries, after kissing her for the first time, "Now I'm more confused than ever!"), and more.

The "it's not that I hate girls- I just had my heart broken when I was younger!" trope was revisited in a kind of role-reversal when Batton Lash wrote "Freshmen Year - The Missing Chapters: Jughead" for ARCHIE & FRIENDS #140. In this version, Jughead's family has moved to Montana at the beginning of Jughead's freshman year, when Jughead's dad accepts a new job offer in Selby, Montana. Jughead is enrolled in Selby High and meets Sadie Cameron, whom he quickly develops a crush on... but the new job isn't working out for Mr. Jones, and Mrs. Jones misses her old friends, so the Jones family moves back to Riverdale, and that's the last Jughead saw of Sadie. The story explains Jughead's ubiquitous S-shirt (S for Selby High, as in Archie's R-sweater for Riverdale High), and the S also reminds Jughead of his lost love, Sadie.

THAT is why Jughead has the S sweater?? I never could have expected that. It was one of those things I hoped would be explained, but also never wanted to find out. I wonder what the original reason is.

I found on Tumblr a listing of all the girls Jughead has been romantically involved with over the past 80 years in the comics. The list was put out by someone who goes by the pseudonym "Dirty River". The list is quite extensive and it's obvious they did their research as the girls are listed in first name alphabetical order with a comic showing each girl with Jughead. The writer also admits to having a Bughead (Betty and Jughead) bias but gives each girl's story a fair shot. It's true that Jughead may have started dating a particular girl because of her connection to food (i.e. her father owns a restaurant) but a few of the stories show him having feelings and even falling in love with the girl! I remember reading one where Jughead meets Melanie Morgan, a girl whose father was an army captain.  Both he and Melanie find out they have so much in common. like anchovy pizzas and being able to eat a lot and not gain weight. But their relationship is short lived. When Jughead decides to tell her he loves her, she is crying because her family is being transferred overseas. She leaves him with a kiss and a pot of her chili and Jughead has a tear running down his face. For a guy who is supposed to be asexual and a woman hater, his history proves otherwise.

Virtually all of the Jughead-in-love stories date from the late 1980s onwards. You might find some before that where he's finagled into going on a date, but really hardly any where he shows real romantic feelings towards a girl. But still, that's 40-odd years' worth of Jughead stories.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on March 01, 2022, 02:09:26 PMVirtually all of the Jughead-in-love stories date from the late 1980s onwards. You might find some before that where he's finagled into going on a date, but really hardly any where he shows real romantic feelings towards a girl. But still, that's 40-odd years' worth of Jughead stories.

When Archie comics were first created, you can have a male character be a "woman hater" and say things like "Dames, who needs them?" Such a character like this was also featured in films (usually comedies) and musicals, and their sexuality was never openly questioned. Now, there's so much pressure for a young person to be dating or identify whether they're straight, gay, etc. I always thought Jughead simply felt he wasn't ready at age 16-17 to date and that was based on him being an immature teenager. He did claim in the future that he "outgrew" his fear of girls and I found that to be believable in his case.

Since this is the "Jughead The Lover" topic, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen more talk about one of the most recent and popular Jughead pairings which was featured on the Riverdale show: BUGHEAD. (Betty and Jughead). I admit that I have never seen the show, but I did read their romance was a big hit with many fans. Supposedly, some fans also expressed they would like to see these two become a couple in the comics also. The reason? Archie takes Betty for granted and that's something Jughead would never do. Betty would finally have a guy who appreciates her. Jughead has even confronted Archie about the shabby way he treats Betty. I did read something where Archie comics have said that a Jughead/Betty pairing could destroy the 80 year old ABV love triangle and that's why they keep these two as close friends even though there is some romantic tension between them.
      My feelings about these two becoming an item? They look great together, but it would end badly. All that has to happen is Archie having a breakup with Veronica and he'll go back to Betty and tell he that he loves her. Betty's heart will melt and she'll end up giving Jughead the "I'm sorry, Juggie, but my heart belongs to Archie." It's never a good idea to date the best friend of someone you love. It never ends well. And Jughead will go back to hating girls again!

I discovered Archie Comics from the 69-70's Filmation Saturday cartoon. Being a musician, I liked how the stories were interspersed with songs from actual "The Archies" albums. I know the music gets dismissed as bubblegum, but I still like it to this day. I'm still waiting to find out whether it was Betty or Veronica supposedly singing Toni Wine's lead in "Jingle Jangle".
Anyway, there was an episode in the series called "Jughead's Girlfriend" where we see both Jug and Hot Dog falling in love with the new girl in town, Paula Pingle and her poodle named Penelope. Both Jug and Hot Dog are oblivious to their surroundings which causes them to nearly get hit by cars, walking into telephone poles, in school mishaps, asking Pop for "Pingle Burgers", etc. But Jughead can't bring himself to meet her.
Over the next couple weeks, Archie and the gang notices that Jughead has lost his appetite and isn't getting much sleep. Reggie has had enough of Jughead's pining over Paula and decides to play matchmaker. (I'm a little surprised Reggie didn't try hitting on Paula himself). Reggie introduces Jughead and Paula but  Paula reveals she and Penelope are already in love with secret admirers. Jughead is crushed.
However, that night, the gang sees Jughead and Hot Dog walking in their sleep to Paula's house. Jughead, in his pajamas, picks up a rock and throws it a her window. She turns on the light and sees Jughead, who she calls Egghead, and says "Oh my love. I thought you would never come". Jughead, in his sleep, starts reciting the most romantic lines and Paula, in her nightgown and hair curlers, is just eating it up. Reggie decides to turn on Paula's spotlight which wakes Jughead and Hot Dog. Betty tells Jughead that he's in Paula's yard. Jughead sees Paula with her curlers and runs away. She yells "Where are you my Prince Charming?" He yells back "Having a nightmare". Betty and Veronica both comment about Jughead's silly reaction to seeing a girl in curlers, but both Archie and Reggie take off running. The story end with Betty, Veronica, Paula and her poodle saying "Men! Hmmmmph!!"
I did like this episode except Paula's voice. Paula was pretty, had short blondish hair, but her voice made her sound much older than she was.