Look, This maybe considered a weird theory but here goes,You know the Archie Reboot that's been ongoing since 2015,I was thinking suppose if the writers run out of ideas for the reboot and that the characters will keep on evolving throughout the years ,I have a feeling in about few years,The Archie reboot will end and will end with the characters graduating and will have an epilogue showing their new lives though It will probably never show who Archie is married to.
Then there will be another reboot to the Archie Comics series probably about going back to the Classic roots or something new with new designs.I mean, I understand there are new writers who are going to take over the title but I still think that those writers will probably run out of Ideas since the characters will evolve through time and then they will end this era while creating a new one.
Am I right ? Will the Archie reboot end in about few years and replace with a new reboot?
What makes you think they're waiting for New Riverdale ARCHIE to end before rebooting again? Half an "UNboot" is still a form of REbooting.
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchiecomics.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FYourPalArch1-666x1024.jpg&hash=2c05bc1bbf8afca67244ac28de42fb20fef8f3a3)
Seems like they're having second thoughts, like "Maybe we went too far...?" and the failures of the New Riverdale Reggie & Me, Josie & the Pussycats, and Jughead are pointing out that they've alienated a big percentage of their traditional fans, so they're pulling back and trying to find some middle ground. Although if the truth be known, the New Riverdale ARCHIE alienates me far more than the new JUGHEAD did (but I realize I'm in the minority on that one).
And then there's Harley & Ivy meet Betty & Veronica, which again, seems like it's aiming somewhere "in the middle" between classic B&V and Adam Hughes' B&V... maybe slightly more to the New Riverdale side of things, while Your Pal Archie is skewing closer to the classic Archie side. Personally, I think they made a big mistake in not letting Dan Parent (or maybe Jeff Schultz or Pat & Tim Kennedy) draw this one...
(https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/himbv_cover.jpg?w=450)
And if either of those aren't big enough sellers to point the way forward to ACP, then they'll probably crank out more miniseries, up and down the tonal scale, with various mixtures of creators and percentages of comedy-to-dramedy...
Quote from: terrence12 on July 06, 2017, 12:32:40 PM
Will the Archie reboot end in about few years and replace with a new reboot?
You mean like DC, Marvel, etc..... ???
I love how Archie looks there. He's adorable 💋 💋 💋. If the art is done in book like that. I will be happy.
Quote from: BettyReggie on July 06, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
I love how Archie looks there. He's adorable 💋 💋 💋. If the art is done in book like that. I will be happy.
That's one of two cover variants for issue #1, this one drawn by Amanda Connor, who won't be drawing the interior artwork for the comic.
The interior artwork will be done by an artist named Laura Braga, whose previous work I'm not familiar with.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 06, 2017, 02:44:47 PM
What makes you think they're waiting for New Riverdale ARCHIE to end before rebooting again? Half an "UNboot" is still a form of REbooting.
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchiecomics.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FYourPalArch1-666x1024.jpg&hash=e8f1aa1e458c06275f4cbf03ad7b33ba)
Yes,But it is just an all ages spinoff as Archie Comics just focus more on the main titles that is the reboot.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 06, 2017, 02:44:47 PM
Seems like they're having second thoughts, like "Maybe we went too far...?" and the failures of the New Riverdale Reggie & Me, Josie & the Pussycats, and Jughead are pointing out that they've alienated a big percentage of their traditional fans, so they're pulling back and trying to find some middle ground. Although if the truth be known, the New Riverdale ARCHIE alienates me far more than the new JUGHEAD did (but I realize I'm in the minority on that one).
Maybe,But I think people and the critics are okay with the reboot Archie.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 06, 2017, 02:44:47 PM
And then there's Harley & Ivy meet Betty & Veronica, which again, seems like it's aiming somewhere "in the middle" between classic B&V and Adam Hughes' B&V... maybe slightly more to the New Riverdale side of things, while Your Pal Archie is skewing closer to the classic Archie side. Personally, I think they made a big mistake in not letting Dan Parent (or maybe Jeff Schultz or Pat & Tim Kennedy) draw this one...
(https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/himbv_cover.jpg?w=450)
And if either of those aren't big enough sellers to point the way forward to ACP, then they'll probably crank out more miniseries, up and down the tonal scale, with various mixtures of creators and percentages of comedy-to-dramedy...
Maybe this non canon crossover might be a mixture of the classic and the reboot,I think .And since the reboot Archie goes to the mature dramatic part after the Over the Edge storyline,I think Your pal Archie might be an all ages spin off,Just to be safe.
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on July 06, 2017, 05:49:18 PMQuote from: terrence12 on July 06, 2017, 12:32:40 PMWill the Archie reboot end in about few years and replace with a new reboot?
You mean like DC, Marvel, etc..... ???
Yes.But will not have a crisis event thing like Marvel and DC
Quote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 02:01:08 AM
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on July 06, 2017, 05:49:18 PMQuote from: terrence12 on July 06, 2017, 12:32:40 PMWill the Archie reboot end in about few years and replace with a new reboot?
You mean like DC, Marvel, etc..... ???
Yes.But will not have a crisis event thing like Marvel and DC
Your Pal Archie seems like it's backing off the more extreme reboot of New Riverdale titles for ACP, just like the 2016
DC Rebirth seems like it's backing off a little (still not far enough for me) from the earlier 2011
DC New 52. Both companies lost a lot of former readers because the earlier reboots were too extreme, and now that some few years passed and the previous reboot lost a lot of its momentum (and sales), they're desperately trying to appeal to the old readers to get them back.
I don't think you'll be seeing any more New Riverdale titles launched, but Your Pal Archie is sort of testing the waters, while not exactly a real return to where they left off with ARCHIE #666. They're trying to find some compromise to appeal to new readers while not losing old ones.
I have a feeling that Reggie & Me will return. In the last issue it said it would. I can't wait for it.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2017, 05:37:06 AMQuote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 02:01:08 AMQuote from: Mr.Lodge on July 06, 2017, 05:49:18 PMQuote from: terrence12 on July 06, 2017, 12:32:40 PMWill the Archie reboot end in about few years and replace with a new reboot?
You mean like DC, Marvel, etc..... ???
Yes.But will not have a crisis event thing like Marvel and DC
Your Pal Archie seems like it's backing off the more extreme reboot of New Riverdale titles for ACP, just like the 2016 DC Rebirth seems like it's backing off a little (still not far enough for me) from the earlier 2011 DC New 52. Both companies lost a lot of former readers because the earlier reboots were too extreme, and now that some few years passed and the previous reboot lost a lot of its momentum (and sales), they're desperately trying to appeal to the old readers to get them back.
I don't think you'll be seeing any more New Riverdale titles launched, but Your Pal Archie is sort of testing the waters, while not exactly a real return to where they left off with ARCHIE #666. They're trying to find some compromise to appeal to new readers while not losing old ones.
Maybe,I guess they are just making this series to gain back the old readers ,However time change and people will probably move on besides the company will still focus more on the reboot since it gain good reception and Your Pal Archie is still a spinoff and is aimed for some retro all age readers.Heck I kinda like Dan parent's new style it kinda suits him just fine.Quote from: BettyReggie on July 07, 2017, 06:41:59 AMI have a feeling that Reggie & Me will return. In the last issue it said it would. I can't wait for it.
yeah,I hope so too.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 09:32:41 AM
QuoteYour Pal Archie is sort of testing the waters, while not exactly a real return to where they left off with ARCHIE #666. They're trying to find some compromise to appeal to new readers while not losing old ones.
Maybe,I guess they are just making this series to gain back the old readers ,However time change and people will probably move on besides the company will still focus more on the reboot since it gain good reception and Your Pal Archie is still a spinoff and is aimed for some retro all age readers. Heck I kinda like Dan parent's new style it kinda suits him just fine.
1. What do you consider Your Pal Archie a "spinoff"
of? (*Any more than say,
Life With Archie, Afterlife With Archie, New Riverdale
Archie, and the radio show, cartoons, and TV series [and the comic book based on the TV series] based on the original 1940s character. Yes, they are all spinoffs in the same sense as Jughead or Betty & Veronica starring in their own comic books...)
2. When you think about it, "retro" and "all ages" is really a contradiction in terms. Not
all ages can appreciate retro, because some will be too young to appreciate that quality about it. They'd be truly better off if they
could figure out what appeals to ALL ages, but of course that's no easy trick. The real question is, can
Your Pal Archie be both kid-friendly
and nostalgia-friendly, while capturing at least some of the important, lucrative 20-40 demographic -- that's where the money is loosest for floppy comic sales -- at the same time? Any one of the three might not be enough, maybe not even two.
3. I don't think ACP is as committed to the "New Riverdale Archie" plan as you seem to think. Oh, I think they
WERE, at one time, but since sales continue to ebb with every passing issue, I think they're open to trying just about anything at this point, and less sure of the idea of putting all their eggs in one basket, by trying to create "a line of titles" or "an imprint". At this point it seems to me they're trying to figure out what amounts of particular ingredients to use in what mixture to create a recipe for something called "Archie Comics" that will appeal to the greatest number of people, because "New Riverdale" does not seem to be that recipe. And it could be there's no answer except continuing to experiment and try something different with each new attempt at an iteration of Archie until they find a few version that will stick around.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2017, 11:53:35 AMQuote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 09:32:41 AMQuoteYour Pal Archie is sort of testing the waters, while not exactly a real return to where they left off with ARCHIE #666. They're trying to find some compromise to appeal to new readers while not losing old ones.
Maybe,I guess they are just making this series to gain back the old readers ,However time change and people will probably move on besides the company will still focus more on the reboot since it gain good reception and Your Pal Archie is still a spinoff and is aimed for some retro all age readers. Heck I kinda like Dan parent's new style it kinda suits him just fine.
1. What do you consider Your Pal Archie a "spinoff" of? (*Any more than say, Life With Archie, Afterlife With Archie, New Riverdale Archie, and the radio show, cartoons, and TV series [and the comic book based on the TV series] based on the original 1940s character. Yes, they are all spinoffs in the same sense as Jughead or Betty & Veronica starring in their own comic books...)
Exactly,It's just a spinoff from the main title but is considered a 'Classic 2.0' Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2017, 11:53:35 AM2. When you think about it, "retro" and "all ages" is really a contradiction in terms. Not all ages can appreciate retro, because some will be too young to appreciate that quality about it. They'd be truly better off if they could figure out what appeals to ALL ages, but of course that's no easy trick. The real question is, can Your Pal Archie be both kid-friendly and nostalgia-friendly, while capturing at least some of the important, lucrative 20-40 demographic -- that's where the money is loosest for floppy comic sales -- at the same time? Any one of the three might not be enough, maybe not even two.
Exactly,The 'Your Pal Archie' series will be considered both 'Retro 2.0' and 'all ages' since the main one is aimed for older audience as it is about to reach a dark tone.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2017, 11:53:35 AM 3. I don't think ACP is as committed to the "New Riverdale Archie" plan as you seem to think. Oh, I think they WERE, at one time, but since sales continue to ebb with every passing issue, I think they're open to trying just about anything at this point, and less sure of the idea of putting all their eggs in one basket, by trying to create "a line of titles" or "an imprint". At this point it seems to me they're trying to figure out what amounts of particular ingredients to use in what mixture to create a recipe for something called "Archie Comics" that will appeal to the greatest number of people, because "New Riverdale" does not seem to be that recipe. And it could be there's no answer except continuing to experiment and try something different with each new attempt at an iteration of Archie until they find a few version that will stick around.
Hmm,Maybe.But since the riverdale series is considered a hit according to critics and people like it especially the reboot series gain positive reception ,I think the company will be fine.However,If what you said about the continuation of sales decline and Archie's attempt to make a experimental products for new readers.It is as if the road to bankruptcy and closure is coming.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 12:17:02 PM
But since the riverdale series is considered a hit according to critics and people like it especially the reboot series gain positive reception ,I think the company will be fine.However,If what you said about the continuation of sales decline and Archie's attempt to make a experimental products for new readers.It is as if the road to bankruptcy and closure is coming.
New Riverdale
Archie IS a spinoff. So was
Life With Archie, and
Afterlife With Archie... and
Riverdale (both the television series and the comic book based on it). They are all, every single one of them, spinoffs of the original ARCHIE series (the one that ran 666 issues), and
Your Pal Archie is also a spinoff of that, in the same way that
Archie's Pal Jughead was a spinoff back in 1950, and those spinoffs continue to 'spin off' even though the original series was discontinued in 2015.
You might say that the TV series Riverdale is a partial spinoff of the early issues of New Riverdale
Archie, or that the comic book
Riverdale is a spinoff of the TV series
Riverdale, BUT
Your Pal Archie is no more derivative of any of those than they are of the comics that came before them (but especially the original Archie comic book series). THERE'S NO MAIN SERIES ANY MORE. New Riverdale
Archie is the longest-running consecutively-numbered spinoff series published by ACP left at this point, but it's still a mere 2-year-old in comic book history.
Critics can't arbitrarily decide what's a "hit". They can give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down, but critics are few in number, and can only try to influence the choices other people make. Hits are decided by consumers who support something by buying products. Hits generate lots of money for the company that produces them. At this point New Riverdale
Archie is still selling better than the original Archie was when it was cancelled with #666, but not so much better that it can be called a "hit". Its sales are marginal in comparison to those of comic book titles from other publishers, and it has lost huge numbers since the earliest issues published. That is not a hit by any definition. Maybe the FIRST issue of the new Archie could be described as a "hit", but not currently-published issues. It is, by default, the best-selling ongoing
FLOPPY COMIC title ACP is still publishing at this point (but look how few ongoing floppy comic series are left at this point). It still sells poorly compared to the digests ACP publishes. ACP still derives the majority of its income from publishing the digest titles, and more people read those new Dan Parent stories than any other new material ACP is generating right now.
And you BEGAN this discussion by proposing that its days are numbered and it is destined to be replaced, so why are you holding it up as ACP's savior for the future now? The people who buy it may LIKE it, but there aren't enough people who DO buy it.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 12:53:17 AMQuote from: terrence12 on July 07, 2017, 12:17:02 PM
But since the riverdale series is considered a hit according to critics and people like it especially the reboot series gain positive reception ,I think the company will be fine.However,If what you said about the continuation of sales decline and Archie's attempt to make a experimental products for new readers.It is as if the road to bankruptcy and closure is coming.
New Riverdale Archie IS a spinoff. So was Life With Archie, and Afterlife With Archie... and Riverdale (both the television series and the comic book based on it). They are all, every single one of them, spinoffs of the original ARCHIE series (the one that ran 666 issues), and Your Pal Archie is also a spinoff of that, in the same way that Archie's Pal Jughead was a spinoff back in 1950, and those spinoffs continue to 'spin off' even though the original series was discontinued in 2015.
You might say that the TV series Riverdale is a partial spinoff of the early issues of New Riverdale Archie, or that the comic book Riverdale is a spinoff of the TV series Riverdale, BUT Your Pal Archie is no more derivative of any of those than they are of the comics that came before them (but especially the original Archie comic book series). THERE'S NO MAIN SERIES ANY MORE. New Riverdale Archie is the longest-running consecutively-numbered spinoff series published by ACP left at this point, but it's still a mere 2-year-old in comic book history.
Yes,from your perspective I still think that the reboot Archie or "New Riverdale Archie" as you called it replaced the original classic Archie after it ended and becoming the main title while 'Your pal Archie' will just be a spinoff for all ages.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 12:53:17 AM
Critics can't arbitrarily decide what's a "hit". They can give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down, but critics are few in number, and can only try to influence the choices other people make. Hits are decided by consumers who support something by buying products. Hits generate lots of money for the company that produces them. At this point New Riverdale Archie is still selling better than the original Archie was when it was cancelled with #666, but not so much better that it can be called a "hit". Its sales are marginal in comparison to those of comic book titles from other publishers, and it has lost huge numbers since the earliest issues published. That is not a hit by any definition. Maybe the FIRST issue of the new Archie could be described as a "hit", but not currently-published issues. It is, by default, the best-selling ongoing FLOPPY COMIC title ACP is still publishing at this point (but look how few ongoing floppy comic series are left at this point). It still sells poorly compared to the digests ACP publishes. ACP still derives the majority of its income from publishing the digest titles, and more people read those new Dan Parent stories than any other new material ACP is generating right now.
Yes,Indeed.I guess this is the reason why Archie comics are launching 'you pal Archie' because old readers want their 'old' archie back and they will soon.Also since the reboot Archie gains profit for the company even though it wasn't gaining huge numbers like what you said.I still think it will be a main series and will be ongoing at least until the next reboot happens in about few years.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 12:53:17 AMAnd you BEGAN this discussion by proposing that its days are numbered and it is destined to be replaced, so why are you holding it up as ACP's savior for the future now? The people who buy it may LIKE it, but there aren't enough people who DO buy it.
Well,I was going to say the company will be okay since it is adjusting to the times and make books which are experimental to both old and new readers like their horror spinoff Afterlife with Archie for example ,The reboot series and the Riverdale tv show which gain positive reception.However when you mention sales are low and stuff,It made me think that the company is about to go bankrupt and close down in about few or many years.
Just so you know. Classic Archie (the character) has not been replaced. He's still around, and appearing in stories every month. Those stories don't happen to appear in a floppy format comic book with the one-word title ARCHIE, though. They only appear in the digests.
If "main title" just means the title you like the best or think is the most important, well I can't argue with that. That's your opinion.
If it actually means anything objective though, the "main title" for a comic book publishing company should probably be the one they publish that sells the most copies (and/or generates the most profit, based on cover price). That would be - probably, since I can't confirm actual numbers - either Archie Comics Double Digest or World of Archie Double Digest. That applies regardless of the fact that the new stories in those titles are only 5 pages long.
Counting the two B&V digests, there are six digest titles, 3 of which are published 10 times a year, and 3 of which are published 6 times a year, and every one of them has a new 5-page story in it "in the traditional Archie style". So 48 new digest stories are published per year (240 pages in total). Archie (the classic version of the character) probably appears (conservatively) in about 2/3rds of those stories, so about 160 of those pages. With the end of Reggie's, Josie's, and Jughead's New Riverdale version floppy comics, I doubt if the remaining New Riverdale ARCHIE title can even claim to publish more than 160 pages of new material per year. Even if it does, it isn't read by as many people (some of whom aren't adults, so do they not count?) as the digests.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
Just so you know. Classic Archie (the character) has not been replaced. He's still around, and appearing in stories every month. Those stories don't happen to appear in a floppy format comic book with the one-word title ARCHIE, though. They only appear in the digests.
Yes,That's true the classic Archie will live on in reprints and digest with few new stories including 'Your pal,Archie' even though the reboot takes over the comic book market.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
If "main title" just means the title you like the best or think is the most important, well I can't argue with that. That's your opinion.
Yes,That's true but since Comic book are the main big ones for the company and the classic has ended while the reboot takes over ,The reboot will always be the main one .Even though the Classics will live on in reprints including 'Your Pal,Archie'.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
If it actually means anything objective though, the "main title" for a comic book publishing company should probably be the one they publish that sells the most copies (and/or generates the most profit, based on cover price). That would be - probably, since I can't confirm actual numbers - either Archie Comics Double Digest or World of Archie Double Digest. That applies regardless of the fact that the new stories in those titles are only 5 pages long.
Counting the two B&V digests, there are six digest titles, 3 of which are published 10 times a year, and 3 of which are published 6 times a year, and every one of them has a new 5-page story in it "in the traditional Archie style". So 48 new digest stories are published per year (240 pages in total). Archie (the classic version of the character) probably appears (conservatively) in about 2/3rds of those stories, so about 160 of those pages. With the end of Reggie's, Josie's, and Jughead's New Riverdale version floppy comics, I doubt if the remaining New Riverdale ARCHIE title can even claim to publish more than 160 pages of new material per year. Even if it does, it isn't read by as many people (some of whom aren't adults, so do they not count?) as the digests.
So,If you what you are saying is true then the other Archie reboot titles will end this year living only the reboot Archie which will probably end in about a year or two.Including Afterlife with Archie which will probably end with the possible final storyarc 'Archie is legend' and will end in about two years.Which lives only the digests to sell since they reprint classic Archie stories with few new ones even though they are considered 'relics of the past' .So I think that the comic books whether they revert back to classic or a new reboots will probably become bimonthly instead.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 01:02:37 AM
So,If you what you are saying is true then the other Archie reboot titles will end this year living only the reboot Archie which will probably end in about a year or two.
I guess you haven't been following too closely.
REGGIE AND ME ended with issue #5 in May 2017.
JUGHEAD ended with issue #16 in June 2017.
JOSIE & THE PUSSYCATS will conclude with issue #9, expected in August 2017.
That leaves ARCHIE as the sole remaining rebooted ACP floppy comic, unless you're counting the Archie Horror titles (which barely manage to ship a new issue every 6 months or so).
Sales figures from comic shops serviced by Diamond Comics (which is all of them) for May 2017:
ARCHIE #20 =
10,755 copies
RIVERDALE #2 =
7,878 copies
THE ARCHIES (one-shot) =
7,741 copies
JUGHEAD #15 =
5,805 copies
JOSIE & THE PUSSYCATS #7 =
5,254 copies
REGGIE AND ME #5 =
3,859 copies
If these titles, collectively, represent what Archie Comics as a publisher is depending on for its profitability and survival, they are indeed in big, big trouble. We already know that the last three listed titles have been cancelled, so we have some idea where the dividing line of unprofitability lies. There would seem to be no reason to follow up that ARCHIES one-shot based on sales, and if sales don't improve on RIVERDALE within a few issues, it seems likely that that one would be headed for cancellation as well, leaving only ARCHIE... but for how much longer?
The digests, on the other hand, are mainly distributed outside of Diamond Comics' direct-to-comics shop sales system, so we really have no reliable figures on their sales. You better HOPE they're selling better than those sales figures above, or it's just about all over for ACP, at least as far as print comics are concerned.
Now, what do those sales numbers mean, in relative terms, compared to the rest of the comic book publishing industry? The number of copies needed to be sold to be a good-selling comic book have changed over time, but in 2016, those numbers averaged out something like this: In 2016, the 50th best-selling comic book title sold a little less than 45,000 copies, the 100th best-selling comic book title sold a little less than 25,000 copies, the 150th best-selling comic book title sold a little less than 15,000 copies, the 200th best-selling comic book title sold a little less than 10,000 copies, and the 300th best-selling comic book title sold a little less than 5,000 copies. Above 50th place the number of copies sold and the actual titles are very volatile from year to year, due to special events and promotions.
Between the 50th and the 200th best-selling comic book gives you the best idea of what a reasonably good-selling (but not a "hit series" selling) comic book might sell -- the mid-range sellers that account for the bulk of all comic book titles that continue to be published. Below 200th place is where a publisher (depending on the publisher's overall rank within the market) would probably be looking to replace that title with another one that would sell better. Titles whose sales drop into the 300th best-selling range are almost certainly destined for cancellation by any but the smallest of comic book publishers.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 09, 2017, 02:35:50 AMQuote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 01:02:37 AM
So,If you what you are saying is true then the other Archie reboot titles will end this year living only the reboot Archie which will probably end in about a year or two.
I guess you haven't been following too closely.
REGGIE AND ME ended with issue #5 in May 2017.
JUGHEAD ended with issue #16 in June 2017.
JOSIE & THE PUSSYCATS will conclude with issue #9, expected in August 2017.
That leaves ARCHIE as the sole remaining rebooted ACP floppy comic, unless you're counting the Archie Horror titles (which barely manage to ship a new issue every 6 months or so).
Sales figures from comic shops serviced by Diamond Comics (which is all of them) for May 2017:
ARCHIE #20 = 10,755 copies
RIVERDALE #2 = 7,878 copies
THE ARCHIES (one-shot) = 7,741 copies
JUGHEAD #15 = 5,805 copies
JOSIE & THE PUSSYCATS #7 = 5,254 copies
REGGIE AND ME #5 = 3,859 copies
If these titles, collectively, represent what Archie Comics as a publisher is depending on for its profitability and survival, they are indeed in big, big trouble. We already know that the last three listed titles have been cancelled, so we have some idea where the dividing line of unprofitability lies. There would seem to be no reason to follow up that ARCHIES one-shot based on sales, and if sales don't improve on RIVERDALE within a few issues, it seems likely that that one would be headed for cancellation as well, leaving only ARCHIE... but for how much longer?
The digests, on the other hand, are mainly distributed outside of Diamond Comics' direct-to-comics shop sales system, so we really have no reliable figures on their sales. You better HOPE they're selling better than those sales figures above, or it's just about all over for ACP, at least as far as print comics are concerned.
Woah,You are not kidding eventhough the reboot Archie is still on top ,The others have low sales though you didn't mention about Betty and Veronica especially the one shots and whether if The Archies becomes a full series including Archie horror's latest series The Hunger.Then this could possibly mean that the Reboot Archie will end in about one or two years after the Over the edge storyline which will cause 'Jump the shark 'to that series because one character is killed off (spoilers betty and hope it's just coma) And if the reboot series ends because of low sales then this will cause bankruptcy and closure to Archie ComicsBut at least Your Pal archie series gain positive reception maybe there could be hope that it will gain profit and bring back the old readers even though this series is using Dan Parent's new style which I admit suits him better.Especially the Digest which contains reprints of old Archie tales even though 'Digest' is just a relic of the past that people will ignore it especially that it wasn't part of the sales chart .Still however if those titles and even digest get low sales especially that Riverdale will probably be cancelled in about few years even though the latter will be considered logn running in the future.Then this will be the end of Archie comics unless there is hope maybe Goldwater would sell the company to IDW known for their best licensed and they will make the Archie series as a comedy Period piece series set in the 40's to 50's since the series is known then or I could be wrong.
Digests don't register in sales for comic book shops, which is why there's no sales data for them, which comes only from Diamond Comics' statistics. The vast majority of those digests are being sold NOT in comic shops, but at various retail outlets, or direct from ACP through subscriptions, and there is no sales data from those methods of distribution that is available to the public. On the other hand, Diamond's sales statistics for floppy comics reliably account for more than 90% of ALL sales of printed copies.
BETTY AND VERONICA #1 sold very well in July 2016. It sold 70,830 copies according to Diamond's sales data. B&V #2 didn't do nearly as well as #1 in November 2016, selling only 19,794 copies. STILL much better than ARCHIE #20, though... But that is a massive drop in sales from one issue to the next. We don't yet have sales data for B&V #3, which arrived in comic shops only last month, but I'll bet I can guess that it sold less than #2. We also need to take into account that B&V was a massively expensive comic book title for ACP to produce... by ACP's standards. There was a HUGE amount of overhead cost in hiring Adam Hughes. There doesn't seem to be much point in speculating about the future of that title, since we already know that issue #3 was the last to be written & drawn by Adam Hughes. No issue #4 has yet been solicited by ACP (and may never be). Certainly the lack of Adam Hughes would affect future sales in a negative direction, so who could predict whether this could still be a viable reboot?
I asked Adam Hughes on Twitter , who is going do Issue #4 of Betty & Veronica? He said Rachel Stott. So he is done with it.
Quote from: BettyReggie on July 09, 2017, 06:59:47 AM
I asked Adam Hughes on Twitter , who is going do Issue #4 of Betty & Veronica? He said Rachel Stott. So he is done with it.
I had never heard of her. I just looked at some of her art. I'm not wild about it. Hopefully she can do something good with B&V.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 09, 2017, 06:02:21 AM
Digests don't register in sales for comic book shops, which is why there's no sales data for them, which comes only from Diamond Comics' statistics. The vast majority of those digests are being sold NOT in comic shops, but at various retail outlets, or direct from ACP through subscriptions, and there is no sales data from those methods of distribution that is available to the public. On the other hand, Diamond's sales statistics for floppy comics reliably account for more than 90% of ALL sales of printed copies.
Maybe I guess the reason Diamond doesn't add Digests into their stats is because they think Digest are just relics of the past for which they are.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 09, 2017, 06:02:21 AMBETTY AND VERONICA #1 sold very well in July 2016. It sold 70,830 copies according to Diamond's sales data. B&V #2 didn't do nearly as well as #1 in November 2016, selling only 19,794 copies. STILL much better than ARCHIE #20, though... But that is a massive drop in sales from one issue to the next. We don't yet have sales data for B&V #3, which arrived in comic shops only last month, but I'll bet I can guess that it sold less than #2. We also need to take into account that B&V was a massively expensive comic book title for ACP to produce... by ACP's standards. There was a HUGE amount of overhead cost in hiring Adam Hughes. There doesn't seem to be much point in speculating about the future of that title, since we already know that issue #3 was the last to be written & drawn by Adam Hughes. No issue #4 has yet been solicited by ACP (and may never be). Certainly the lack of Adam Hughes would affect future sales in a negative direction, so who could predict whether this could still be a viable reboot?
Woah,Good point I guess the series remain in hiatus because Adam is done with the series.At least
Rachael Stott is in charge of the series even though we don't see the sneak preview of her version of Betty and Veronica
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Maybe I guess the reason Diamond doesn't add Digests into their stats is because they think Digest are just relics of the past for which they are.
It has nothing to do with any prejudicial attitude towards the digest format on the part of Diamond Comics. They distribute hundreds of products every single week, but they don't produce a monthly sales report detailing the sales on every single item they distribute.
It's much simpler than that. They only list sales for the top 300+ or so publications (and there is a separate list for trade collections) that they distributed every month, so things that sold fewer copies fall off the bottom of the list, because that data becomes irrelevant when the numbers get too small. Archie's digests aren't on Diamond's sales reports lists because they sell very poorly --
in comic book shops -- compared to other comics they carry. So yes, the digests sell even worse than those floppy comic titles ACP is cancelling in comic book stores. The purpose of Diamond reporting their sales list is so that comic shop retailers can know which comics are selling well (or not so well) in stores other than their own, which would help them make decisions about which comics they should preorder (or RE-order) from Diamond, and in what quantities. If Diamond were to report sales on every single product they distribute, the list would be thousands of items long, with some products selling less than 1000 units.
But Archie's digests (
unlike their floppy-format comic books) aren't
dependent on Diamond Comic Distributors for the majority of their sales, because Diamond sells its products mainly to independent comic shops -- and there are only about 2000 or so of those stores in North America. Archie digests are mainly sold in other diverse retail chain stores, where they sell much better than they do in comic book stores.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 05:07:52 AM
Then this will be the end of Archie comics unless there is hope maybe Goldwater would sell the company to IDW known for their best licensed and they will make the Archie series as a comedy Period piece series set in the 40's to 50's since the series is known then or I could be wrong.
No, I said "
IF these titles, collectively, represent what Archie Comics as a publisher is depending on for its profitability and survival, they are indeed in big, big trouble."
Are ACP's floppy comics titles its primary source of revenue as a company? No, I don't believe that's true. Floppy comic sales are the
only sales we know with any degree of certainty, because of Diamond Comics' sales lists, and because Diamond distributes nearly all the floppy comic books sold to retailers. They're reporting those because that is the format of comics that is most important to COMIC BOOK STORES. Trade paperbacks and hardcover sales are also important to comic book stores (and Diamond also reports those), but still not as much as floppy comics sales. The relative importance of those formats is different, depending on whether you're a comic shop
retailer or a comic book
publisher. Trade and hardcover collections are sold in many more places than just comic book stores. Archie digests are sold in many more locations than just comic book stores. Then there are digital comic sales, which are also important to a publisher, but only to a retailer as far as it eats into his print comic sales. Publishers also derive income from the licensing and merchandising of their company-owned intellectual properties.
Unboot the reboot while giving everything else deboot. :idiot2:
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 09, 2017, 10:54:08 AM
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 07:21:01 AM
Maybe I guess the reason Diamond doesn't add Digests into their stats is because they think Digest are just relics of the past for which they are.
It has nothing to do with any prejudicial attitude towards the digest format on the part of Diamond Comics. They distribute hundreds of products every single week, but they don't produce a monthly sales report detailing the sales on every single item they distribute.
It's much simpler than that. They only list sales for the top 300+ or so publications (and there is a separate list for trade collections) that they distributed every month, so things that sold fewer copies fall off the bottom of the list, because that data becomes irrelevant when the numbers get too small. Archie's digests aren't on Diamond's sales reports lists because they sell very poorly -- in comic book shops -- compared to other comics they carry. So yes, the digests sell even worse than those floppy comic titles ACP is cancelling in comic book stores. The purpose of Diamond reporting their sales list is so that comic shop retailers can know which comics are selling well (or not so well) in stores other than their own, which would help them make decisions about which comics they should preorder (or RE-order) from Diamond, and in what quantities. If Diamond were to report sales on every single product they distribute, the list would be thousands of items long, with some products selling less than 1000 units.
But Archie's digests (unlike their floppy-format comic books) aren't dependent on Diamond Comic Distributors for the majority of their sales, because Diamond sells its products mainly to independent comic shops -- and there are only about 2000 or so of those stores in North America. Archie digests are mainly sold in other diverse retail chain stores, where they sell much better than they do in comic book stores.
That's true though people will probably ignore the digest and just look online at previous issues instead,Since Digest are probably outdated.Still if Archie comics is closed down because of low sales in the near future maybe the only hope is to have it sold to IDW so that the company will revive the series as a humour period piece taking place in the 40's and 50's since this is the era where Archie gain popularity.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
That's true though people will probably ignore the digest and just look online at previous issues instead,Since Digest are probably outdated.
When you say "people", you assume they all think like you do, and love comics in the "floppy comic format" only. Comics readers outside of comic book store consumers have no special attachment to that format. "Outdated" is just an opinion. It means nothing. What's important is that these "outdated" digests are selling to, and being read by, far
more people than the current "modern" ARCHIE floppy comic book. Because they're being sold in stores where people are going to buy things anyway, not to collectors making lists of what comics they want and making special trips to a special store to purchase that one type of product. Those "outdated" readers (many of whom are kids, or the parents of kids) probably
won't be reading their comics online. If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's a habit that gets passed down from a parent to a child, and/or a purchase that gets made for a child by a parent in a lot of cases. For many of those, these would be the only comics they see outside of a newspaper comic section.
Otherwise why waste the company's money on the 48 printers' bills they have to pay every year to put them out? Couldn't they spend the same money on bills for printing floppy comics instead? But of course that would cost even more, because then they have to fill another 15 pages of comics with new material that needs to be paid for -- for an audience in comic book stores, that doesn't really care about Archie anyway, new or old.
It's funny how those digests keep getting recycled into variant formats like
Archie Giant Comics or
Archie 1000-Page Comics digests, and this is a recent phenomenon that's only happened in the last 3-4 years. I would guess that's because bookstore and chain store customers wanted more and bigger Archie digests, and digests that would have a shelf-life beyond the next issue. Judging by the number of them released so far, you can't argue that that's probably THE company's biggest success of recent years, in terms of pure profit.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 09, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
That's true though people will probably ignore the digest and just look online at previous issues instead,Since Digest are probably outdated.
When you say "people", you assume they all think like you do, and love comics in the "floppy comic format" only. Comics readers outside of comic book store consumers have no special attachment to that format. "Outdated" is just an opinion. It means nothing. What's important is that these "outdated" digests are selling to, and being read by, far more people than the current "modern" ARCHIE floppy comic book. Because they're being sold in stores where people are going to buy things anyway, not to collectors making lists of what comics they want and making special trips to a special store to purchase that one type of product. Those "outdated" readers (many of whom are kids, or the parents of kids) probably won't be reading their comics online. If I had to take a guess, I'd say it's a habit that gets passed down from a parent to a child, and/or a purchase that gets made for a child by a parent in a lot of cases. For many of those, these would be the only comics they see outside of a newspaper comic section.
Otherwise why waste the company's money on the 48 printers' bills they have to pay every year to put them out? Couldn't they spend the same money on bills for printing floppy comics instead? But of course that would cost even more, because then they have to fill another 15 pages of comics with new material that needs to be paid for -- for an audience in comic book stores, that doesn't really care about Archie anyway, new or old.
It's funny how those digests keep getting recycled into variant formats like Archie Giant Comics or Archie 1000-Page Comics digests, and this is a recent phenomenon that's only happened in the last 3-4 years. I would guess that's because bookstore and chain store customers wanted more and bigger Archie digests, and digests that would have a shelf-life beyond the next issue. Judging by the number of them released so far, you can't argue that that's probably THE company's biggest success of recent years, in terms of pure profit.
You might have a good point there.Though I still think that in about few years,Digests will no longer be in newsstand as the company will focus more on their comics and graphic novels in both bookstores and comic book stores instead.
But still, What do you think if Archie Comics is being sold by IDW in case the former was about to go bankrupt due to low sales and low ratings on the TV show ,Think about it IDW will make a new comedy period piece on Archie where it will take place in the 40's and 50's since those eras were considered Archie's popular period.
Quote from: terrence12 on July 09, 2017, 11:29:17 PM
But still, What do you think if Archie Comics is being sold by IDW in case the former was about to go bankrupt due to low sales and low ratings on the TV show ,Think about it IDW will make a new comedy period piece on Archie where it will take place in the 40's and 50's since those eras were considered Archie's popular period.
IDW is one of the existing companies that would be the best custodians of the Archie Comics legacy (the other candidates would be Dark Horse or Fantagraphics). Aside from appealing to collectors and those who are appreciative of comic books of the past, I can't see any sort of new floppy comic format series set in the 1940s or 1950s working, though. Its appeal is far too limited.
Anything set in the past is a very tough sell in the current comic marketplace. A modified version of that approach, something like what was done with
Batman the Animated Series, which is to create a sort of 'timeless' world where artifacts and fashions of the past coexist, blended with some more modern things (like computers and phones), might be more acceptable to the current comics market.
Still, the recent discontinuation of IDW's floppy comic versions of
Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, and
Walt Disney's Comics & Stories might be an omen -- IDW is replacing those floppy comic titles with more modern, less traditional, spins on the classic Disney characters, and converting WDC&S to a $7.95 prestige/bookshelf-format (squarebound, 68 page, slick cardstock-covered) comic, and combining
Mickey & Donald into one comic in the same format, re-testing their acceptance in the marketplace on a quarterly schedule. There are definitely some parallels to be drawn between the classic Disney comics and classic Archie comics.
If anything though, I'm more and more convinced that what works for the comic shop/comic book collector audience does
not work for the expansion of comics into the general marketplace. The idea of getting a 20-page continuity (that isn't usually even a complete story in itself) for $4 is just not conducive to reaching out to the many
potential comics readers out in the real world. NO retailers want to carry that product
except for comic shop retailers (because they are pre-motivated sellers), and it's necessary for genres other than action/adventure type comic books to find those readers
outside of the insular culture of comic book fandom. Casual comics readership needs to become a real possibility, with easy accessibility to the product, complete done-in-one stories, and a product with more pages that looks and feels like a substantial entertainment experience (that is more likely to be perceived by the average person as good value for money) for the comics reading experience to be considered viable by the average reader who hasn't been immersed in decades of comic book culture.
Since comic book collectors have come to accept the floppy comic format, and indeed
prefer it, as the format of choice, they are completely blind to the many detractions it holds for the average person. The idea of needing to get the next issue, and the next, and the next... before you have a complete story. The very fact that no retailers outside of comic book store owners want to carry that format ought to have been telling the comic book industry that, 30 or more years ago, but it was easier for publishers to persist in producing the same-old, same-old, as long there remained a rabid cult audience which demanded that very format for comics, because decades of programming made them comfortable with the thing they were most familiar with. The floppy comic was a good and economically-viable model for casual readers for a few decades, but has grown increasingly less so since at least the 1970s, and the industry just doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that the price-point/page-count/accessibility of purchase (non-direct distribution) issue is the one biggest thing that CAN be changed to get comics back out of the comic shop and into the real world of average readers.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 10, 2017, 05:32:31 AM
IDW is one of the existing companies that would be the best custodians of the Archie Comics legacy (the other candidates would be Dark Horse or Fantagraphics). Aside from appealing to collectors and those who are appreciative of comic books of the past, I can't see any sort of new floppy comic format series set in the 1940s or 1950s working, though. Its appeal is far too limited. Anything set in the past is a very tough sell in the current comic marketplace. A modified version of that approach, something like what was done with Batman the Animated Series, which is to create a sort of 'timeless' world where artifacts and fashions of the past coexist, blended with some more modern things (like computers and phones), might be more acceptable to the current comics market.
Well,It does work for Don Rosa when he made the stories and sequels based on Carl Barks's Duck stories as it takes in the exact era the Carl Barks comics were published as in the 50's but I think what you said about 'A modified version of that approach, something like what was done with Batman the Animated Series, which is to create a sort of 'timeless' world where artifacts and fashions of the past coexist' would work since it will take place in a mixture of the modern and 50's era ,When IDW owns the rights of Archie Comic incase the company goes bankrupt. I mean they did fine with Popeye but your are right it is difficult to choose who will own the rights of Archie comics,Dark Horse or IDW not Fantagraphics since the company just only publish Graphic novels.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 10, 2017, 05:32:31 AM
Still, the recent discontinuation of IDW's floppy comic versions of Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, and Walt Disney's Comics & Stories might be an omen -- IDW is replacing those floppy comic titles with more modern, less traditional, spins on the classic Disney characters, and converting WDC&S to a $7.95 prestige/bookshelf-format (squarebound, 68 page, slick cardstock-covered) comic, and combining Mickey & Donald into one comic in the same format, re-testing their acceptance in the marketplace on a quarterly schedule. There are definitely some parallels to be drawn between the classic Disney comics and classic Archie comics.
Woah,No kidding.Maybe the reason IDW comic book versions of Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, and Walt Disney's Comics & Stories is because no one is interested in those stories or maybe it's because there is not single american version of the disney comics like in the 50's to early 90's .As most of the stories come from Belgium and Italy and are translated into english.Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 10, 2017, 05:32:31 AM
If anything though, I'm more and more convinced that what works for the comic shop/comic book collector audience does not work for the expansion of comics into the general marketplace. The idea of getting a 20-page continuity (that isn't usually even a complete story in itself) for $4 is just not conducive to reaching out to the many potential comics readers out in the real world. NO retailers want to carry that product except for comic shop retailers (because they are pre-motivated sellers), and it's necessary for genres other than action/adventure type comic books to find those readers outside of the insular culture of comic book fandom. Casual comics readership needs to become a real possibility, with easy accessibility to the product, complete done-in-one stories, and a product with more pages that looks and feels like a substantial entertainment experience (that is more likely to be perceived by the average person as good value for money) for the comics reading experience to be considered viable by the average reader who hasn't been immersed in decades of comic book culture.
Since comic book collectors have come to accept the floppy comic format, and indeed prefer it, as the format of choice, they are completely blind to the many detractions it holds for the average person. The idea of needing to get the next issue, and the next, and the next... before you have a complete story. The very fact that no retailers outside of comic book store owners want to carry that format ought to have been telling the comic book industry that, 30 or more years ago, but it was easier for publishers to persist in producing the same-old, same-old, as long there remained a rabid cult audience which demanded that very format for comics, because decades of programming made them comfortable with the thing they were most familiar with. The floppy comic was a good and economically-viable model for casual readers for a few decades, but has grown increasingly less so since at least the 1970s, and the industry just doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that the price-point/page-count/accessibility of purchase (non-direct distribution) issue is the one biggest thing that CAN be changed to get comics back out of the comic shop and into the real world of average readers.
Good point