Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:57:11 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 10:54:15 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
What "best" is left to bring out in Betty?

Her self-respect. Spunkiness. Being a fun person whose every decision does not revolve around getting Archie's attention.

Isn't that what I said? The only thing that that's wrong about her is her obsession with Archie. Without that, she's got no problems.
Why would she get out of one black hole of a relationship just to head into another one even deeper?

Oh, i don't mean that Betty needs Reggie, she could get anyone she wanted, or be happy in her singlehood. But it's so much more fun to ship her with someone interesting like Reggie. We don't want her with some boring guy like Adam.

Betty should just drop Archie. ALL of her problems stem from her single-minded obsession with Archie. Heck, she could even date him casually once in while, as long as she felt like it. Or anyone else she felt like dating... Adam, Trev, or Sayid.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:57:11 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 10:54:15 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
What "best" is left to bring out in Betty?

Her self-respect. Spunkiness. Being a fun person whose every decision does not revolve around getting Archie's attention.

Isn't that what I said? The only thing that that's wrong about her is her obsession with Archie. Without that, she's got no problems.
Why would she get out of one black hole of a relationship just to head into another one even deeper?

Oh, i don't mean that Betty needs Reggie, she could get anyone she wanted, or be happy in her singlehood. But it's so much more fun to ship her with someone interesting like Reggie. We don't want her with some boring guy like Adam.

Betty should just drop Archie. ALL of her problems stem from her single-minded obsession with Archie. Heck, she could even date him casually once in while, as long as she felt like it. Or anyone else she felt like dating... Adam, Trev, or Sayid.

Don't forget Jason. Apparently he had a crush on Betty in some stories from the Cheryl title.

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:57:11 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 10:54:15 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
What "best" is left to bring out in Betty?

Her self-respect. Spunkiness. Being a fun person whose every decision does not revolve around getting Archie's attention.

Isn't that what I said? The only thing that that's wrong about her is her obsession with Archie. Without that, she's got no problems.
Why would she get out of one black hole of a relationship just to head into another one even deeper?

Oh, i don't mean that Betty needs Reggie, she could get anyone she wanted, or be happy in her singlehood. But it's so much more fun to ship her with someone interesting like Reggie. We don't want her with some boring guy like Adam.

Betty should just drop Archie. ALL of her problems stem from her single-minded obsession with Archie. Heck, she could even date him casually once in while, as long as she felt like it. Or anyone else she felt like dating... Adam, Trev, or Sayid.

Don't forget Jason. Apparently he had a crush on Betty in some stories from the Cheryl title.

Or she could date Alexander Cabot III or Reggie. There must be a ton of decent guys lined up to date Betty, so she could afford to be picky, and not need to date the jerky ones. Wasn't that the whole point of dumping Archie in the first place?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 11:11:33 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:01:17 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:57:11 AM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 10:54:15 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 10:45:52 AM
What "best" is left to bring out in Betty?

Her self-respect. Spunkiness. Being a fun person whose every decision does not revolve around getting Archie's attention.

Isn't that what I said? The only thing that that's wrong about her is her obsession with Archie. Without that, she's got no problems.
Why would she get out of one black hole of a relationship just to head into another one even deeper?

Oh, i don't mean that Betty needs Reggie, she could get anyone she wanted, or be happy in her singlehood. But it's so much more fun to ship her with someone interesting like Reggie. We don't want her with some boring guy like Adam.

Betty should just drop Archie. ALL of her problems stem from her single-minded obsession with Archie. Heck, she could even date him casually once in while, as long as she felt like it. Or anyone else she felt like dating... Adam, Trev, or Sayid.

Don't forget Jason. Apparently he had a crush on Betty in some stories from the Cheryl title.

Or she could date Alexander Cabot III or Reggie. There must be a ton of decent guys lined up to date Betty, so she could afford to be picky, and not need to date the jerky ones. Wasn't that the whole point of dumping Archie in the first place?

Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

Quote from: kassandralove on April 28, 2016, 05:54:01 AM
A tumblr about them

http://mantleandcooper.tumblr.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've seen that one before. That's were GingerGal got the header pic from. Too bad that blog hasn't been updated in a year :/

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out the best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out her best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Imbibing Betty with every virtue and talent under the sun is not a good thing. She would be much more interesting if she was not so perfect.

An entertaining comic character does not necessarily have to be crazy about Archie.

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:34:14 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out her best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Imbibing Betty with every virtue and talent under the sun is not a good thing. She would be much more interesting if she was not so perfect.

An entertaining comic character does not necessarily have to be crazy about Archie.

And being crazy about Archie is exactly what makes her not perfect. That's the very imperfection about her that makes her fans crazy, because she'd have to be crazy to put up with him.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:44:39 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:34:14 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out her best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Imbibing Betty with every virtue and talent under the sun is not a good thing. She would be much more interesting if she was not so perfect.

An entertaining comic character does not necessarily have to be crazy about Archie.

And being crazy about Archie is exactly what makes her not perfect. That's the very imperfection about her that makes her fans crazy, because she'd have to be crazy to put up with him.

Yes, I agree, that's what made her entertaining back in the day, and was fodder for so many great stories. However, the love triangle has already given us everything it could have. Every possible idea that can come from it has been hashed, rehashed, reused, recycled. It ceased to be funny a long time ago.

Also, the classic crazy Betty was funny. Later day doormat Betty was NOT.

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:48:59 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:44:39 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:34:14 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out her best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Imbibing Betty with every virtue and talent under the sun is not a good thing. She would be much more interesting if she was not so perfect.

An entertaining comic character does not necessarily have to be crazy about Archie.

And being crazy about Archie is exactly what makes her not perfect. That's the very imperfection about her that makes her fans crazy, because she'd have to be crazy to put up with him.

Yes, I agree, that's what made her entertaining back in the day, and was fodder for so many great stories. However, the love triangle has already given us everything it could have. Every possible idea that can come from it has been hashed, rehashed, reused, recycled. It ceased to be funny a long time ago.

Archie is Betty's kryptonite. Without it, she, like Superman, would be perfect. However, you don't see Superman go looking for kryptonite to weaken him. If he did, you'd have to think that there was something seriously wrong with Superman.


But here's the thing you have to realize. The entire 75-year history of Archie Comics hinges on this one, impossible, monstrously irrational premise. Without Betty's obsession for Archie, she's perfect, finds a great guy who appreciates her, lives happily (and boringly, to the readers) ever after. Veronica, without Betty to compete with over Archie, loses all interest in him. What is there about Archie to possibly interest Veronica? NOTHING. She's not interested in him, she's interested in beating Betty, because Betty's the best, and obviously the only worthy challenger to Veronica. So without that triangle, no Archie Comics.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 02:13:09 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:48:59 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:44:39 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 01:34:14 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 01:13:22 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 11:28:44 AM
Pairing someone like Betty with someone like Adam maybe nice in real life, but it's not very entertaining in a comic book setting.

And that's why she'll forever be obsessed with a guy like Archie, who isn't worth her time in real life. My point here is that Betty doesn't need anyone to "bring out her best in her". She already IS the best. She can cook, she can sew, she can fix a car. She can race cars. She can ski, surf, play baseball or basketball as well or better than any teenager. She's an A student. She can write. She reads a lot and is smart and well informed. She good at gardening, crafts, or just about any activity she tries her hand at or sets her mind to. She's pretty, in great shape, and looks good in anything she wears. She's got more talent in her little finger than Veronica has in her whole body. She's funny and fun to be with, and cares about animals and people, and about the things in life that really matter, not just the superficial stuff. Veronica has looks and money, and that's all she really needs. She's not dumb, but it wouldn't really matter if she was. She's got all she needs to get by in life. Betty wasn't born with money, but she's a real do-it-yourselfer who can make the best of any situation. She can do just about anything - except win the love of an idiot who's too dumb to appreciate her. All Betty really needs to do is realize there there are some things in life that aren't worth doing, like chasing Archie. She's just got to stop wasting her time with jerks who don't appreciate how exceptional she really is, and start dating guys who treat her how she deserves to be treated. But I guess that wouldn't be entertaining, so she dates Archie instead.

Imbibing Betty with every virtue and talent under the sun is not a good thing. She would be much more interesting if she was not so perfect.

An entertaining comic character does not necessarily have to be crazy about Archie.

And being crazy about Archie is exactly what makes her not perfect. That's the very imperfection about her that makes her fans crazy, because she'd have to be crazy to put up with him.

Yes, I agree, that's what made her entertaining back in the day, and was fodder for so many great stories. However, the love triangle has already given us everything it could have. Every possible idea that can come from it has been hashed, rehashed, reused, recycled. It ceased to be funny a long time ago.

Archie is Betty's kryptonite. Without it, she, like Superman, would be perfect. However, you don't see Superman go looking for kryptonite to weaken him. If he did, you'd have to think that there was something seriously wrong with Superman.

But here's the thing you have to realize. The entire 75-year history of Archie Comics hinges on this one, impossible, monstrously irrational premise. Without Betty's obsession for Archie, she's perfect, finds a great guy who appreciates her, lives happily (and boringly, to the readers) ever after. Veronica, without Betty to compete with over Archie, loses all interest in him. What is there about Archie to possibly interest Veronica? NOTHING. She's not interested in him, she's interested in beating Betty, because Betty's the best, and obviously the only worthy challenger to Veronica. So without that triangle, no Archie Comics.

I appreciate all that, and loved the 50s-60s love triangle stories. But that stuff has not been funny for a long time.


I don't think Betty needs to be perfect. Back in the day, she was not this multi-talented, super-virtuous, loved-by-everybody sweet little girl. Back then she was awesome.
I am not saying I want her to become full-on crazy again, because crazy Betty was entertaining but not exactly relatable. Which is why I believe they tried to make her into a girl-next-door, and ended up creating this perfect being. That's not very relatable either.


Veronica and Betty's rivalry does not have to end. They don't just fight over Archie. They have fought each other for other boys, popularity, modelling gigs, and so many other things. Way I see it, Betty and Veronica are two women fighting for the alpha female position of their little tribe. Archie does not have to be the main reason for everything. In fact, I don't even want Betty to lose ALL interest in Archie. She can still try to steal Archie once in a while to beat her rival Veronica. Or Archie maybe one of the guys in her life.

I want Betty to become her own person, an entertaining and relatable character, whose existence does not revolve around getting Archie's approval.

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 02:39:24 PM
I appreciate all that, and loved the 50s-60s love triangle stories. But that stuff has not been funny for a long time.

I don't think Betty needs to be perfect. Back in the day, she was not this multi-talented, super-virtuous, loved-by-everybody sweet little girl. Back then she was awesome.
I am not saying I want her to become full-on crazy again, because crazy Betty was entertaining but not exactly relatable. Which is why I believe they tried to make her into a girl-next-door, and ended up creating this perfect being. That's not very relatable either.

Veronica and Betty's rivalry does not have to end. They don't just fight over Archie. They have fought each other for other boys, popularity, modelling gigs, and so many other things. Way I see it, Betty and Veronica are two women fighting for the alpha female position of their little tribe. Archie does not have to be the main reason for everything. In fact, I don't even want Betty to lose ALL interest in Archie. She can still try to steal Archie once in a while to beat her rival Veronica. Or Archie maybe one of the guys in her life.

I want Betty to become her own person, an entertaining and relatable character, whose existence does not revolve around getting Archie's approval.

Hey, you don't have to sell ME on the idea. I'm totally down with it. It pretty much gives Archie nothing left to do, but I'm okay with that. I'd be fine with the company changing its name to B&V Comics. Jughead could continue on virtually unaffected by the whole change in status quo (and maybe that's the only function left for Archie, to become Jughead's clumsy and trouble-prone sidekick and sounding board).

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 02:39:24 PM
I appreciate all that, and loved the 50s-60s love triangle stories. But that stuff has not been funny for a long time.

I don't think Betty needs to be perfect. Back in the day, she was not this multi-talented, super-virtuous, loved-by-everybody sweet little girl. Back then she was awesome.
I am not saying I want her to become full-on crazy again, because crazy Betty was entertaining but not exactly relatable. Which is why I believe they tried to make her into a girl-next-door, and ended up creating this perfect being. That's not very relatable either.

Veronica and Betty's rivalry does not have to end. They don't just fight over Archie. They have fought each other for other boys, popularity, modelling gigs, and so many other things. Way I see it, Betty and Veronica are two women fighting for the alpha female position of their little tribe. Archie does not have to be the main reason for everything. In fact, I don't even want Betty to lose ALL interest in Archie. She can still try to steal Archie once in a while to beat her rival Veronica. Or Archie maybe one of the guys in her life.

I want Betty to become her own person, an entertaining and relatable character, whose existence does not revolve around getting Archie's approval.

Hey, you don't have to sell ME on the idea. I'm totally down with it. It pretty much gives Archie nothing left to do, but I'm okay with that. I'd be fine with the company changing its name to B&V Comics. Jughead could continue on virtually unaffected by the whole change in status quo (and maybe that's the only function left for Archie, to become Jughead's clumsy and trouble-prone sidekick and sounding board).

Oh, I know. But since you said you don't understand the ship I thought I would familiarize you with the concept. More importantly, I like to talk about it. 

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 02:49:13 PM

Quote from: Original Sin on April 28, 2016, 02:39:24 PM
I appreciate all that, and loved the 50s-60s love triangle stories. But that stuff has not been funny for a long time.

I don't think Betty needs to be perfect. Back in the day, she was not this multi-talented, super-virtuous, loved-by-everybody sweet little girl. Back then she was awesome.
I am not saying I want her to become full-on crazy again, because crazy Betty was entertaining but not exactly relatable. Which is why I believe they tried to make her into a girl-next-door, and ended up creating this perfect being. That's not very relatable either.

Veronica and Betty's rivalry does not have to end. They don't just fight over Archie. They have fought each other for other boys, popularity, modelling gigs, and so many other things. Way I see it, Betty and Veronica are two women fighting for the alpha female position of their little tribe. Archie does not have to be the main reason for everything. In fact, I don't even want Betty to lose ALL interest in Archie. She can still try to steal Archie once in a while to beat her rival Veronica. Or Archie maybe one of the guys in her life.

I want Betty to become her own person, an entertaining and relatable character, whose existence does not revolve around getting Archie's approval.

Hey, you don't have to sell ME on the idea. I'm totally down with it. It pretty much gives Archie nothing left to do, but I'm okay with that. I'd be fine with the company changing its name to B&V Comics. Jughead could continue on virtually unaffected by the whole change in status quo (and maybe that's the only function left for Archie, to become Jughead's clumsy and trouble-prone sidekick and sounding board).

Oh, I know. But since you said you don't understand the ship I thought I would familiarize you with the concept. More importantly, I like to talk about it. 

Well, it wouldn't bother me if what you described actually happened, but that's not the same as saying I think there's any actual chance of it happening, either. I think any of those scenarios are pretty much going to stay confined to fanfics. Maybe if we all live long enough, the characters will all be in public domain and anyone can do anything they want with them.