Archie Comics Fan Forum

Archie Imprints => Archie Horror => Topic started by: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM

Title: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM
The long awaited return of Afterlife With Archie is finally here!

Those of you who have read it, what did you think?

This is issue was a big game changer, and also quite sad. I guess we now know what Betty R.I.P. means, but will Reggie succeed?

I'm actually quite surprised by the way Reggie is portrayed in these comics, he's straight up awful but I did feel bad the way no one wanted to go after him, showing that Archie is the only decent one in this series. I don't think it's fair that Reggie should be blamed for the zombie apocalypse, it was huge a-hole move to deliberately hit Hot Dog but he could not have foreseen what it would lead to. Yeah, it was a horrible and inexcusable but he was not a threat to anyone, and didn't do anything after the group of survivors formed, well, that is, until now.



Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: BettyReggie on May 25, 2016, 08:57:45 PM
I pre-order mine from tfaw. It didn't come yet.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on May 26, 2016, 03:36:01 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM

This is issue was a big game changer, and also quite sad. I guess we now know what Betty R.I.P. means, but will Reggie succeed?



I doubt it, if he killed her he'd be another guy driven to evil out of desire for a girl and we just went there with Jason.

I'm going to have to reflect on the rest till I can be less negative, Reggie is the character I identify with most and the way ACP and the fans seesaw between saying he's scum and throwing him a pity party (not here, other sites) bothers me more than it should...and this book does that too and not very well in my opinion since it's written with all the subtlety of a gong. At least it FEELS that way to me right now, like I said I'm biased.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on May 26, 2016, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: daren on May 26, 2016, 03:36:01 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM

This is issue was a big game changer, and also quite sad. I guess we now know what Betty R.I.P. means, but will Reggie succeed?



I doubt it, if he killed her he'd be another guy driven to evil out of desire for a girl and we just went there with Jason.

But why kill Betty though? How will her death help the evil zombie horde? I think her death might be likely, as apparently she and Archie are going through with their wedding, I don't think Roberto Aguirre Sacasa will let them get too happy.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 05:30:21 AM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM
I guess we now know what Betty R.I.P. means

Haven't read it yet. Not a spoiler AFAIC, though... there was never a doubt in my mind that R.I.P. means DEAD IS DEAD.

RA-S seems to take quite a bit of "Glee" ::) in putting these beloved characters through the wringer, and before it's all over the living will envy the dead. You might even say he's taking pity on Betty in allowing her a mercy exit, sparing her from (as they used to say on BATMAN '66) ..."The WORST is Yet To Come!" Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if by the time it's all over, Archie is the last man standing.

Quote"Cannibals? Who is not a cannibal? I tell you it will be more tolerable for the Fejee that salted down a lean missionary in his cellar against a coming famine; it will be more tolerable for that provident Fejee, I say, in the day of judgement, than for thee, civilized and enlightened gourmand, who nailest geese to the ground and feastest on their bloated livers in thy pate de fois gras."
  ― Herman Melville (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1624.Herman_Melville),  Moby Dick (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/2409320)
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
I just read it this morning.  I think it's brilliant.  I'm not a horror fan at all except for Afterlife With Archie and Sabrina. 


This book just has it all: laughs, tears, emotional pain, you name it.  It's a shame Archie Comics can't get it out regularly and now with the TV show, I'm not hopeful since Roberto writes both.  Oh well. 


Still, just a great comic.  Every issue is amazing.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on May 27, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
It's a shame Archie Comics can't get it out regularly and now with the TV show, I'm not hopeful since Roberto writes both.  Oh well.

I wonder about that too. Would you prefer it come out regularly with another writer or have RAS see it through until the end?
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 03:33:03 PM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 27, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
It's a shame Archie Comics can't get it out regularly and now with the TV show, I'm not hopeful since Roberto writes both.  Oh well.

I wonder about that too. Would you prefer it come out regularly with another writer or have RAS see it through until the end?


The only reason I'm still reading it is under the assumption that RA-S has an ending planned (and within a reasonable number of issues). If ACP thinks they're going to put another writer on it and try to play it out (monthly) for as long as people are willing to pony up $4 an issue, I am O-U-T.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 27, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Quote from: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 09:26:59 AM
It's a shame Archie Comics can't get it out regularly and now with the TV show, I'm not hopeful since Roberto writes both.  Oh well.

I wonder about that too. Would you prefer it come out regularly with another writer or have RAS see it through until the end?

I'm not sure anyone else could write like this.  If so, I'd prefer another writer and it come out regularly.  It's the best thing Archie Comics is doing right now, IMO, and since I only read Archie Comics titles, it's my favorite comic. 
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: invisifan on May 27, 2016, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 03:33:03 PM
The only reason I'm still reading it is under the assumption that RA-S has an ending planned (and within a reasonable number of issues). If ACP thinks they're going to put another writer on it and try to play it out (monthly) for as long as people are willing to pony up $4 an issue, I am O-U-T.
This issue actually looks hopeful for their world in a way — the flesheaters are centrally controlled, the central control believes that the humans have a "hope" and at least claim that they could be restored to normal (though I wouldn't trust that part) and there's also the question of how corrupted Sabrina is now ... knowing that I could see a plan to break that link and end things in the course of a limited series of as short as 15 issues (based on 5-issue arcs). I would bet on Sabrina's collusion, though not necessarily survival (not sure if she'd want to), and like vs. Predator I don't know how many others could be expected to survive.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 04:40:15 PM
Quote from: invisifan on May 27, 2016, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 03:33:03 PM
The only reason I'm still reading it is under the assumption that RA-S has an ending planned (and within a reasonable number of issues). If ACP thinks they're going to put another writer on it and try to play it out (monthly) for as long as people are willing to pony up $4 an issue, I am O-U-T.
This issue actually looks hopeful for their world in a way — the flesheaters are centrally controlled, the central control believes that the humans have a "hope" and at least claim that they could be restored to normal (though I wouldn't trust that part) and there's also the question of how corrupted Sabrina is now ... knowing that I could see a plan to break that link and end things in the course of a limited series of as short as 15 issues (based on 5-issue arcs). I would bet on Sabrina's collusion, though not necessarily survival (not sure if she'd want to), and like vs. Predator I don't know how many others could be expected to survive.


Oh, I'm not expecting Archie & friends to win. The die has already been cast, as it were. I just don't want to see the thing drag on and on, giving some faint hope of winning every so often so that they can draw it out for another arc after another arc. I'm all for stepping up the body count so we can move this thing along to its ultimate conclusion.


There are no happy endings to zombie stories, unless it involves Dan Parent drawing the final page.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: spazaru on May 27, 2016, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 04:40:15 PM
Quote from: invisifan on May 27, 2016, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 27, 2016, 03:33:03 PM
The only reason I'm still reading it is under the assumption that RA-S has an ending planned (and within a reasonable number of issues). If ACP thinks they're going to put another writer on it and try to play it out (monthly) for as long as people are willing to pony up $4 an issue, I am O-U-T.
This issue actually looks hopeful for their world in a way — the flesheaters are centrally controlled, the central control believes that the humans have a "hope" and at least claim that they could be restored to normal (though I wouldn't trust that part) and there's also the question of how corrupted Sabrina is now ... knowing that I could see a plan to break that link and end things in the course of a limited series of as short as 15 issues (based on 5-issue arcs). I would bet on Sabrina's collusion, though not necessarily survival (not sure if she'd want to), and like vs. Predator I don't know how many others could be expected to survive.


Oh, I'm not expecting Archie & friends to win. The die has already been cast, as it were. I just don't want to see the thing drag on and on, giving some faint hope of winning every so often so that they can draw it out for another arc after another arc. I'm all for stepping up the body count so we can move this thing along to its ultimate conclusion.


There are no happy endings to zombie stories, unless it involves Dan Parent drawing the final page.

Actually, I am expecting Archie and friends to win.  Counting on it in fact!
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on May 28, 2016, 04:08:22 AM

I read it again and I'm more objective now but sorry, I don't have the high opinion of this issue, or at this point the whole series, that some other people here do, and I don't want to be a downer so I'll just say this:

Switching writers at this point would be a good idea. Roberto's going to be too busy with the tv series and many writers could do this story, including many of the regular writers who used to or still do work for Archie. All Roberto has to do is give some general directions and they're set.

Quote from: Thrillho on May 26, 2016, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: daren on May 26, 2016, 03:36:01 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on May 25, 2016, 12:03:36 PM

This is issue was a big game changer, and also quite sad. I guess we now know what Betty R.I.P. means, but will Reggie succeed?



I doubt it, if he killed her he'd be another guy driven to evil out of desire for a girl and we just went there with Jason.

But why kill Betty though? How will her death help the evil zombie horde?

I'm not sure. I agree that Betty might die some other way though, I agree about the others being wrong to turn their backs on Reggie too.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: BettyReggie on May 28, 2016, 11:54:42 AM
I'm guessing mine will come today. But I did listen to Riverdale Podcast, so I know what happens. I'm just wondering what's going when the book ends. Will Riverdale go back to normal. Was it all dream? 
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Meldarwin on May 28, 2016, 07:31:38 PM
I am hoping it ends mixed, a glimmer of hope but not happy ever after.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 29, 2016, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: BettyReggie on May 28, 2016, 11:54:42 AM
I'm guessing mine will come today. But I did listen to Riverdale Podcast, so I know what happens. I'm just wondering what's going when the book ends. Will Riverdale go back to normal. Was it all dream? 

Yes, that would be the happy ending to a zombie story that involves Dan Parent drawing the final page, which I referred to in an earlier post. To me that would be the ideal ending, but I'm sure it would just tick some other readers off, particularly (but by no means exclusively) the non-classic Archie readers.

The more conventionally expected ending would be "You die, he dies, she dies, everybody dies." (More likely though, everybody BUT Archie.)
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on May 29, 2016, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 29, 2016, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: BettyReggie on May 28, 2016, 11:54:42 AM
I'm guessing mine will come today. But I did listen to Riverdale Podcast, so I know what happens. I'm just wondering what's going when the book ends. Will Riverdale go back to normal. Was it all dream? 

Yes, that would be the happy ending to a zombie story that involves Dan Parent drawing the final page, which I referred to in an earlier post. To me that would be the ideal ending, but I'm sure it would just tick some other readers off, particularly (but by no means exclusively) the non-classic Archie readers.

The more conventionally expected ending would be "You die, he dies, she dies, everybody dies." (More likely though, everybody BUT Archie.)

I wouldn't really go for that. The whole point of AWA is that it's supposed to be an alternate universe so I expect/want something that deviates from classic Archie. I think a truly happy ending is out of the realm of possibility as they've already lost too many family members and friends, and I think a time spell or something like that would be a cop out. I can see a bittersweet ending where the survivors come to terms with their losses, get to burying their loved ones, and being hopeful about the future. I also don't see everyone dying as this book takes itself more seriously than Archie vs. Predator did.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 30, 2016, 10:14:45 AM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 29, 2016, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 29, 2016, 12:16:02 AM
Quote from: BettyReggie on May 28, 2016, 11:54:42 AM
I'm guessing mine will come today. But I did listen to Riverdale Podcast, so I know what happens. I'm just wondering what's going when the book ends. Will Riverdale go back to normal. Was it all dream? 

Yes, that would be the happy ending to a zombie story that involves Dan Parent drawing the final page, which I referred to in an earlier post. To me that would be the ideal ending, but I'm sure it would just tick some other readers off, particularly (but by no means exclusively) the non-classic Archie readers.

The more conventionally expected ending would be "You die, he dies, she dies, everybody dies." (More likely though, everybody BUT Archie.)

I wouldn't really go for that. The whole point of AWA is that it's supposed to be an alternate universe so I expect/want something that deviates from classic Archie. I think a truly happy ending is out of the realm of possibility as they've already lost too many family members and friends, and I think a time spell or something like that would be a cop out. I can see a bittersweet ending where the survivors come to terms with their losses, get to burying their loved ones, and being hopeful about the future. I also don't see everyone dying as this book takes itself more seriously than Archie vs. Predator did.


I didn't mean to imply that I thought that there's any serious chance of what I'm calling "the Dan Parent ending" happening. The reason I see it as "ideal" is that it seems like it has such a fractional chance in hell of actually happening, that to really DO it would surprise and delight me.


On the other hand, I'm surprised at how many people seem to be heavily counting on the "hopeful ending". As you point out, the book takes itself seriously (as a horror comic book ...) To me that is a pretty strong argument AGAINST the "hopeful" ending, or should I say more accurately, the "hoped FOR" ending. Because so many people seem to want and expect and hope for that ending, is exactly the reason I DON'T think it will actually happen. In the final analysis, it lessens the overall horror of the story if (even after suffering great losses) "the good guys finally won". In other words, I don't see this as being a story about heroes and villains, with "good" ultimately triumphing over "evil". The main point of horror, it seems to me, is to make you feel uncomfortable, and providing the expected "the good guys won" ending seems to play too much to the readers' expectations that it will all somehow work out in the end.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
Just got to read AWA #9 today. I'd say it's the best-written issue so far. It also gives you more insight into both Midge's and Reggie's characters than has been the case in 75 years of classic Archie stories, so it's kind of a shame that none of that realy applies to the classic versions of the characters.

It seemed a little odd that Reggie chose to reveal his darkest secrets to Kevin, of all people - given that in an earlier issue it was strongly implied that Reggie is a homophobe - but I guess considering the circumstances, his choices of messengers was pretty limited.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: BettyReggie on May 31, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
I just finished reading too.It was great. Reggie is the definitely the star of this issue. It seemed Midge only ran to Reggie when she wanted his help because Moose is so abusive. The scene in the restaurant, tell me if I'm wrong was Midge asking Reggie for money so she can get abortion? That's what I thought. One part of story was really X rated, when Reggie was in bed . And he called out Midge , it looked like dirty. And Kevin looked great . He told the gang what Reggie admitted about killing Hot Dog.
At end I can't believe Sabrina told Reggie if you kill Betty then Midge will come back to life. And he said he will Betty, Poor Archie, they supposed to get married. But Veronica will be thrilled I think to have Betty out of picture.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: BettyReggie on May 31, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
I just finished reading too.It was great. Reggie is the definitely the star of this issue. It seemed Midge only ran to Reggie when she wanted his help because Moose is so abusive. The scene in the restaurant, tell me if I'm wrong was Midge asking Reggie for money so she can get abortion? That's what I thought. One part of story was really X rated, when Reggie was in bed . And he called out Midge , it looked like dirty. And Kevin looked great . He told the gang what Reggie admitted about killing Hot Dog.
At end I can't believe Sabrina told Reggie if you kill Betty then Midge will come back to life. And he said he will Betty, Poor Archie, they supposed to get married. But Veronica will be thrilled I think to have Betty out of picture.

That seemed to be what was being implied in the restaurant scene -- and furthermore, it was implied that the baby wasn't Moose's, either! (... and from Reggie's story, we can surmise it isn't his either.) But we'll probably not get any further enlightenment on that particular point.

Now here's something else to think about -- After getting beaten up by Moose, Reggie drives off in anger, and deliberately swerves his car to hit Hot Dog. Then of course the next time we see him is at the Halloween party, so it's unclear whether he ever did wind up giving that $500 to Midge... and if he didn't, and she gets brought back to life, it may be she's just as pregnant as she was before getting infected and turned into a zombie.

Somehow, though... I don't think Reggie is going to wind up being responsible for Betty's death. Not to say that I don't think she'll wind up dying, I just don't think Reggie will ultimately go through with his bargain. In fact, it's easy for me to imagine something like the following happening...

After Reggie comes back to the group, feigning remorse and contriteness in order to effect his plan of killing Betty, he's shunned by everyone except Archie, Betty and Kevin (and possibly, even Archie won't be willing to forgive him). Who is the most likely to reach out to him with forgiveness, sympathy and understanding? Betty Cooper, that's who. When Reggie realizes she's the only one who isn't judging him for his sins, he begins to realize just what a good person she is, and reflecting on his times with Midge, that she only ever really used him for her own purposes. He was planning to go through with his bargain and kill Betty, but now he finds himself falling in love with her...
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on May 31, 2016, 07:14:15 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 06:26:02 PM

That seemed to be what was being implied in the restaurant scene -- and furthermore, it was implied that the baby wasn't Moose's, either! (... and from Reggie's story, we can surmise it isn't his either.) But we'll probably not get any further enlightenment on that particular point.


I didn't even think of that when I read that scene.  :o I thought she was talking about an abortion for sure but I thought Midge's "none of his business" "nothing to do with him" bit was more of a "my body, my choice" thing. I never considered there might be a third guy in that mess.

(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi393.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp13%2Fnewest_gloss%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202016-05-31%2520at%25204.02.00%2520PM.png&hash=079b7996314ebca89e2f08b37fab031ed611867c)

There's also the possibility she isn't pregnant but it was just a scare instead.

Quote from: BettyReggie on May 31, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
Poor Archie, they supposed to get married. But Veronica will be thrilled I think to have Betty out of picture.

Do you this Veronica is that awful? Before I was interested in seeing what would happen if Betty died, but not if that means Midge will come back in any form. Yes, I am a hater.

(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi393.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp13%2Fnewest_gloss%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=9b7034e50e1bac355ccb59108caaa0ccc6f63b73)
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 07:31:18 PM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 31, 2016, 07:14:15 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 06:26:02 PM

That seemed to be what was being implied in the restaurant scene -- and furthermore, it was implied that the baby wasn't Moose's, either! (... and from Reggie's story, we can surmise it isn't his either.) But we'll probably not get any further enlightenment on that particular point.


I didn't even think of that when I read that scene.  :o I thought she was talking about an abortion for sure but I thought Midge's "none of his business" "nothing to do with him" bit was more of a "my body, my choice" thing. I never considered there might be a third guy in that mess.

(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi393.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp13%2Fnewest_gloss%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202016-05-31%2520at%25204.02.00%2520PM.png&hash=079b7996314ebca89e2f08b37fab031ed611867c)

"What do you THINK, GENIUS? ...actually, it's probably not what you're thinking..."

And what would Midge think Reggie would be thinking, hmm...? That she was pregnant with Moose's child?
But then she realizes it's NOT what he'd be thinking, after all...

Maybe she's not pregnant, but she just isn't completely sure yet. But if she IS, she doesn't want Moose knowing about it...!
Because he has, or HAD, nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
It also gives you more insight into both Midge's and Reggie's characters than has been the case in 75 years of classic Archie stories,


How?



Quoteso it's kind of a shame that none of that realy applies to the classic versions of the characters.


Everything important we learn about their characters in this issue (Midge using Reggie when she gets frustrated with Moose, Reggie thinking he might be psychopathic and being in love with Midge) already applies to their characters, it's just that the classic Archie writers always showed it to us instead of telling us. The story where Midge says her parents are divorcing or even the story we talked about earlier where Reggie's mother fawned over his narcissism, I would call those insightful because they gave us new possible reasons for why Midge and Reggie act as they do but theyre reasons most people probably never thought of before, unlike the Afterlife backstory.


Quote[size=0px]After Reggie comes back to the group, feigning remorse and contriteness in order to effect his plan of killing Betty, he's shunned by everyone except Archie, Betty and Kevin (and possibly, even Archie won't be willing to forgive him). Who is the most likely to reach out to him with forgiveness, sympathy and understanding? Betty Cooper, that's who. When Reggie realizes she's the only one who isn't judging him for his sins, he begins to realize just what a good person she is, and reflecting on his times with Midge, that she only ever really used him for her own purposes. He[/size][size=0px] was[/size][size=0px] planning to go through with his bargain and[/size][size=0px] kill[/size][size=0px] Betty, but[/size][size=0px] now[/size][size=0px] he finds himself falling in love with her...[/size]

Yeah Reggie won't be able to make himself kill Betty because she's the hope or holy one, I would say that if Reggie's going to fall in love with someone it'll probably be either Betty or, what do you think--Kevin? See this artist Gabbie Gross, the one who did BettyReggie's avatar and sig, has this whole blog arguing that Reggie in Afterlife is gay or bi and in love with Kevin: http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with (http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with) and she did lots of gay fan arts of the two as a couple including a whole fan comic, you can see them all here: http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/ (http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/) This surprised me because she says Betty/Reggie is her favorite Archie couple but Reggie is her favorite Archie character, I guess she likes to ship him with everybody (and girls love slash), she does make a fair argument that Reggie/Kevin might happen in Afterlife if they're looking for new boundaries to cross.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 31, 2016, 07:14:15 PM

Do you this Veronica is that awful? Before I was interested in seeing what would happen if Betty died, but not if that means Midge will come back in any form. Yes, I am a hater.

(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi393.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp13%2Fnewest_gloss%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=9b7034e50e1bac355ccb59108caaa0ccc6f63b73)



Where did you get this from, I need this
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: BettyReggie on May 31, 2016, 10:00:45 PM
I think it would be good if they made Veronica happy that Betty was out of the picture. Because Betty & Veronica's relationship is that really just frenimes. Veroncia Gets what she wants no matter what. It's her way or the High way.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: Thrillho on June 01, 2016, 12:38:00 AM
Quote from: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: Thrillho on May 31, 2016, 07:14:15 PM

Do you this Veronica is that awful? Before I was interested in seeing what would happen if Betty died, but not if that means Midge will come back in any form. Yes, I am a hater.

(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi393.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp13%2Fnewest_gloss%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=9b7034e50e1bac355ccb59108caaa0ccc6f63b73)



Where did you get this from, I need this

It's made its way around the interwebz for years, so I just googled "haters gonna hate gif" and it pops right up.

Quote from: BettyReggie on May 31, 2016, 10:00:45 PM
I think it would be good if they made Veronica happy that Betty was out of the picture. Because Betty & Veronica's relationship is that really just frenimes. Veroncia Gets what she wants no matter what. It's her way or the High way.

I guess since it's AU, it's possible but I get the feeling that even in this universe, Veronica enjoys the competition. I've read the scripts and RAS says as much in his notes. Maybe Veronica would have the fleeting satisfaction that comes from "winning" but I think she'd be crushed by the loss of her best friend.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 01, 2016, 12:46:36 AM
Quote from: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
It also gives you more insight into both Midge's and Reggie's characters than has been the case in 75 years of classic Archie stories,


How?

???

... I don't know, maybe it's because in classic Archie stories, we don't get a single clue as to what's going on in Midge's (especially Midge... who, in classic Archie stories is far more of a prop than an actual character) and Reggie's heads. Well, 99% of the time, anyway. I think the story with Harper was probably more characterization (apart from the usual "egotistical/dirty trickster" attributes) than Reggie usually gets about 99% of the time. But the story here pretty much spells it out for you... "Nobody thinks of themselves as a villain." Only in classic Archie stories, we really don't get to see much about how Reggie really sees himself and how he he justifies his behavior in his own mind. On the other hand, I'm sure if I wanted to go back to 1960s stories where Reggie had thought balloons that said things like "EVIL", or "BLACKNESS RISING in my heart", I could probably build a case that (for a period of time, anyway) he DID think of himself as the villain.


Quote from: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
Quoteso it's kind of a shame that none of that realy applies to the classic versions of the characters.

Everything important we learn about their characters in this issue
(Midge using Reggie when she gets frustrated with Moose, Reggie thinking he might be psychopathic and being in love with Midge) already applies to their characters, it's just that the classic Archie writers always showed it to us instead of telling us. The story where Midge says her parents are divorcing or even the story we talked about earlier where Reggie's mother fawned over his narcissism, I would call those insightful because they gave us new possible reasons for why Midge and Reggie act as they do but theyre reasons most people probably never thought of before, unlike the Afterlife backstory.

QuoteAfter Reggie comes back to the group, feigning remorse and contriteness in order to effect his plan of killing Betty, he's shunned by everyone except Archie, Betty and Kevin (and possibly, even Archie won't be willing to forgive him). Who is the most likely to reach out to him with forgiveness, sympathy and understanding? Betty Cooper, that's who. When Reggie realizes she's the only one who isn't judging him for his sins, he begins to realize just what a good person she is, and reflecting on his times with Midge, that she only ever really used him for her own purposes. He was planning to go through with his bargain and kill Betty, but now he finds himself falling in love with her...

Yeah Reggie won't be able to make himself kill Betty because she's the hope or holy one, I would say that if Reggie's going to fall in love with someone it'll probably be either Betty or, what do you think--Kevin? See this artist Gabbie Gross, the one who did BettyReggie's avatar and sig, has this whole blog arguing that Reggie in Afterlife is gay or bi and in love with Kevin: http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with (http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with) and she did lots of gay fan arts of the two as a couple including a whole fan comic, you can see them all here: http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/ (http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/) This surprised me because she says Betty/Reggie is her favorite Archie couple but Reggie is her favorite Archie character, I guess she likes to ship him with everybody (and girls love slash), she does make a fair argument that Reggie/Kevin might happen in Afterlife if they're looking for new boundaries to cross.


You're confusing me, Daren. At first you seem to be arguing that these characters (apart from the more serious tone of AWA) are pretty much the exact same characters as they are in classic Archie stories. Then you start talking about Reggie killing Betty or falling in love with her, or maybe even turning out to be gay... so clearly they're NOT the same characters, because none of those things are "in character" for 'classic Reggie'.

So NO, they are NOT the same characters, although you could say that they're "loosely based" (emphasis on the "loosely") on the classic Archie characters. Therefore the character motivations of the AWA characters do not apply to the classic versions. It might be more accurate to say that they are RA-S's "re-interpretations" of the classic Archie characters. I particular disagree with his take on Veronica, whose behavior in AWA seems way off the beam to me. Not to mention Mr. Lodge, Ginger and Nancy, etc. Some other characters are a little closer. Midge is largely a blank slate anyway, so any writer would be free to fill in the blanks however he so chose, within the very loose framework of the Moose/Midge/Reggie triangle. That said, even in the classic Archie stories there's not a single hint that Midge is just using Reggie like she is in AWA.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 01, 2016, 12:46:36 AM
Quote from: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
It also gives you more insight into both Midge's and Reggie's characters than has been the case in 75 years of classic Archie stories,


How?

???

... I don't know, maybe it's because in classic Archie stories, we don't get a single clue as to what's going on in Midge's (especially Midge... who, in classic Archie stories is far more of a prop than an actual character) and Reggie's heads.
QuoteMidge is largely a blank slate anyway, so any writer would be free to fill in the blanks however he so chose, within the very loose framework of the Moose/Midge/Reggie triangle. That said, even in the classic Archie stories there's not a single hint that Midge is just using Reggie like she is in AWA.

There's clues upon clues to their motivations. For instance Reggie stares in the mirror and brags constantly=he's narcissistic. He does mean things=he's sadistic. Add those things together=psychopathic behavior. He chases Midge all the time even though it's dangerous=he loves or at least wants her. Midge is with Moose all the time even though he's stupid and violent=she loves him or at least needs him. She's disgusted with Reggie half the time but open to his advances the other half=she doesn't respect Reggie but needs a break from Moose's stupidity and violence so uses Reggie. There's other possible reasons for their behavior but these are the most obvious, I know I've seen Reggie called psychopathic sometimes and other people on the old board posted about Midge using Reggie to take a break from Midge. It's blatant.




QuoteWell, 99% of the time, anyway. I think the story with Harper was probably more characterization (apart from the usual "egotistical/dirty trickster" attributes) than Reggie usually gets about 99% of the time. But the story here pretty much spells it out for you...
Yeah you can say that again. :P
Quote"Nobody thinks of themselves as a villain." Only in classic Archie stories, we really don't get to see much about how Reggie really sees himself and how he he justifies his behavior in his own mind. On the other hand, I'm sure if I wanted to go back to 1960s stories where Reggie had thought balloons that said things like "EVIL", or "BLACKNESS RISING in my heart", I could probably build a case that (for a period of time, anyway) he DID think of himself as the villain.


There's a lot of stories where Reggie brags about how bad he is. One Christmas story for instance that does the same kind of thing this arc is obviously heading for, sets Reggie up as an a-hole who thinks of himself as just that and tells his friends what a douche he is, then sees a crying little kid and helps him out. The main difference is that Frank Doyle (yeah him again) doesn't tell us this directly in voiceover or present it as an earthshaking revelation, he knows we can figure it out ourselves and that it's sweet but corny (just like Afterlife) so he tells it in six pages and moves on.


In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.
Quote from: daren on May 31, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 31, 2016, 05:41:28 PM
Quoteso it's kind of a shame that none of that realy applies to the classic versions of the characters.

Everything important we learn about their characters in this issue
(Midge using Reggie when she gets frustrated with Moose, Reggie thinking he might be psychopathic and being in love with Midge) already applies to their characters, it's just that the classic Archie writers always showed it to us instead of telling us. The story where Midge says her parents are divorcing or even the story we talked about earlier where Reggie's mother fawned over his narcissism, I would call those insightful because they gave us new possible reasons for why Midge and Reggie act as they do but theyre reasons most people probably never thought of before, unlike the Afterlife backstory.

QuoteAfter Reggie comes back to the group, feigning remorse and contriteness in order to effect his plan of killing Betty, he's shunned by everyone except Archie, Betty and Kevin (and possibly, even Archie won't be willing to forgive him). Who is the most likely to reach out to him with forgiveness, sympathy and understanding? Betty Cooper, that's who. When Reggie realizes she's the only one who isn't judging him for his sins, he begins to realize just what a good person she is, and reflecting on his times with Midge, that she only ever really used him for her own purposes. He was planning to go through with his bargain and kill Betty, but now he finds himself falling in love with her...

Yeah Reggie won't be able to make himself kill Betty because she's the hope or holy one, I would say that if Reggie's going to fall in love with someone it'll probably be either Betty or, what do you think--Kevin? See this artist Gabbie Gross, the one who did BettyReggie's avatar and sig, has this whole blog arguing that Reggie in Afterlife is gay or bi and in love with Kevin: http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with (http://hireggiebireggie.tumblr.com/post/144892443723/the-case-for-a-bisexual-reggie-in-afterlife-with) and she did lots of gay fan arts of the two as a couple including a whole fan comic, you can see them all here: http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/ (http://gabbiegross.tumblr.com/) This surprised me because she says Betty/Reggie is her favorite Archie couple but Reggie is her favorite Archie character, I guess she likes to ship him with everybody (and girls love slash), she does make a fair argument that Reggie/Kevin might happen in Afterlife if they're looking for new boundaries to cross.
You're confusing me, Daren. At first you seem to be arguing that these characters (apart from the more serious tone of AWA) are pretty much the exact same characters as they are in classic Archie stories. Then you start talking about Reggie killing Betty or falling in love with her, or maybe even turning out to be gay... so clearly they're NOT the same characters, because none of those things are "in character" for 'classic Reggie'.
I said in this issue not in the whole series. Of course Roberto went strange places with the characters earlier and might do it again by making Reggie gay, I don't care if he does or not and I don't see him as gay in canon but this is AU so maybe theyll surprise us.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge). Apart from being somewhat inconsistent in and of themselves, depending on which stories about Reggie from which time periods you pick and choose from, you can build a picture of a couple of different Reggies, by grouping certain classic Archie stories together to build your case. In one version, for example, a bunch of different stories reinforce the idea that the egotism and rotteness is a sham (Christmas stories where Reggie doesn't want the gang to discover he's really doing good deeds in secret, because it will ruin his reputation as king of the a-holes). In other stories the rottenness is deep-down and genuine.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:30:02 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge).


Well you said in a way it's a shame Roberto's take couldn't apply to the classic characters so I assumed.


Quote
Apart from being somewhat inconsistent in and of themselves, depending on which stories about Reggie from which time periods you pick and choose from, you can build a picture of a couple of different Reggies, by grouping certain classic Archie stories together to build your case. In one version, for example, a bunch of different stories reinforce the idea that the egotism and rotteness is a sham (Christmas stories where Reggie doesn't want the gang to discover he's really doing good deeds in secret, because it will ruin his reputation as king of the a-holes).


Yeah they do that with Veronica sometimes too. I don't think I like that, the idea that Reggie and Ronnie's characters are a facade because what have they got then?


Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:40:41 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:30:02 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge).


Well you said in a way it's a shame Roberto's take couldn't apply to the classic characters so I assumed.

I meant it's a shame we don't get that kind of insight into their interior mindset, not that particular one that RA-S (Al Ghul  ;) ) has assigned to his version of Reggie in AWA.


Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:47:36 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:40:41 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:30:02 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge).


Well you said in a way it's a shame Roberto's take couldn't apply to the classic characters so I assumed.

I meant it's a shame we don't get that kind of insight into their interior mindset, not that particular one that RA-S (Al Ghul  ;) ) has assigned to his version of Reggie in AWA.


Oh I know you meant that, Im just not for exposition of their interior mindset no matter what it is, unless it's a joke.


RA-S al Ghul, I might use that from now on. :)
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 04:00:52 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:47:36 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:40:41 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:30:02 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge).


Well you said in a way it's a shame Roberto's take couldn't apply to the classic characters so I assumed.

I meant it's a shame we don't get that kind of insight into their interior mindset, not that particular one that RA-S (Al Ghul  ;) ) has assigned to his version of Reggie in AWA.


Oh I know you meant that, Im just not for exposition of their interior mindset no matter what it is, unless it's a joke.


RA-S al Ghul, I might use that from now on. :)

That said, not all of anyone's (real person or fictional character) behavior is rationalized/articulated in some interior monologue or even conscious. There are layers.

Personally, I miss the "thought balloon", which has fallen out of favor in recent times in comic books. Just because some writers have used them badly doesn't mean they don't serve a good purpose when used creatively. I also miss the covers with word balloons.
Title: Re: Afterlife With Archie [spoilers]
Post by: daren on June 09, 2016, 05:41:42 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 04:00:52 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:47:36 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:40:41 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:30:02 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 06, 2016, 02:19:02 AM
Quote from: daren on June 06, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
In classic Archie we don't get it spelled out for us, we get clues and put it together. That's a good thing. I don't know why you'd want Roberto's exposition in this issue to become part of the classic canon, not only is it not as good as letting us make deductions for ourselves but it would limit Reggie's character.

I don't. It's HIS version of Reggie. I'm merely pointing out that that in classic Archie you don't get a view of the interior POV of how Reggie sees himself (and FAR fewer clues to go on, as applied to Midge).


Well you said in a way it's a shame Roberto's take couldn't apply to the classic characters so I assumed.

I meant it's a shame we don't get that kind of insight into their interior mindset, not that particular one that RA-S (Al Ghul  ;) ) has assigned to his version of Reggie in AWA.


Oh I know you meant that, Im just not for exposition of their interior mindset no matter what it is, unless it's a joke.


RA-S al Ghul, I might use that from now on. :)

That said, not all of anyone's (real person or fictional character) behavior is rationalized/articulated in some interior monologue or even conscious. There are layers.

Personally, I miss the "thought balloon", which has fallen out of favor in recent times in comic books. Just because some writers have used them badly doesn't mean they don't serve a good purpose when used creatively. I also miss the covers with word balloons.


Yeah I miss those covers too. Thought balloons don't look as serious as captions so I guess for a story like this they're forbidden. I shouldn't have said I'm against ANY serious Archie exposition of interior mindset, it could work but with this story I was underwhelmed.