Quote from: irishmoxie on July 02, 2016, 01:37:50 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 02, 2016, 03:24:55 AM

Quote from: Gisele on July 02, 2016, 02:40:14 AM
Maybe they never felt they found the right team for it? Comics that feature music are not an easy sell in the States as they are in Europe and Japan, where they are liked and popular there. As a musician myself, my favorite comics that feature music are Beck (Mongolian Chop Squad) and Nana. Both are Japanese properties. Harold Sakuishi, who did Beck, REALLY did his research. I believe he was in bands too. The instruments look great, the stories are believable, AND it's FUNNY. Let's hope we get that with Josie.

Maybe it's because in a comic book, you can't hear the music. That's an inherently limiting factor of the medium, unless digital comics start including soundtracks (too expensive, I know). I've SEEN Jem and the Holograms in a comic book, but I haven't the foggiest idea what the band sounds like. Never saw the animated cartoon.

They already do this with apps such as Webtoon. Siren's Lament has its own piano score which is actually quite good. Cassette tapes were included with some of the Jem and the Holograms dolls.

QuoteThinking about it the other day, I wondered why ACP never published a comic book series about The Archies. Maybe that's why, although it doesn't explain why they didn't do it during the time period when the albums were being released. Maybe because they were already on television.

They did do this. Everything's Archie is pretty much The Archies comic book series. Also they appeared in Life With Archie a lot.

I know that The Archies started OUT in Life With Archie, but that was actually the pre-television version of The Archies. I don't know that they were in many issues after the TV series was airing, so we're talking maybe a dozen or so at most?

Everything's Archie, the entire series? Like every single issue? That was a long-running series (160 issues), and they appear on very few of the covers (looking at GCD), which seems kind of odd.

Unless somebody put it on YouTube or converted it to MP3s, old cassettes from the late 80s aren't exactly an accessible source for getting an idea of what the Holograms sound like. Did the original cartoons have whole songs, or just snippets?

I thought the JEM comic was sort of reboot of the original animated cartoon. But they did some kind of flash-animated versions of the comic stories, is that what you're saying? With a music soundtrack by the band, but it's piano music? I'm not quite understanding.

TALES FROM RIVERDALE DIGEST #19, 20, 21, & 22 - I've been reading through a big run of these, and really enjoying them. There's a heck of a lot of variety in this digest, and it's a good kind of variety. Some of the reprints that show up on a continuing basis in this title are: Sabrina the Animated Series (let's get that out of the way first, as I consider it pretty much the ONLY drawback detracting from this digest title -- it's in every single issue, and I skip it every single time -- it looks to me like the digest reprinted the entire run of that series); Cheryl Blossom (most issues); Josie & the Pussycats (some older stories, but mostly Stan G shorts from the 90s); That Wilkin Boy (not too often, as that was a regular feature in every issue of JUGHEAD & FRIENDS DIGEST); Madhouse (a whole bunch of these have Madhouse sections, which is awesome); Archie's Weird Mysteries (only a few of those); plus the usual mix of Betty, Veronica, Betty & Veronica, Archie, and Jughead stories. A few Reggie stories as well. Three of the Veronica stories in these digests featured Veronica as Powerteen, and they made kind of a big deal about it (Powerteen gets her own splash page introducing the section). Even though I'd read 2 of them before, it was good to read those again.

For new stories, there's also an excellent variety of shorts: I've seen Ginger Lopez, Nancy, Chuck, Chuck & Nancy, Dilton, and even an Archie & Frankie (Valdez) story, all of which were new. I think I saw at least one Mr. Weatherbee story and at least one Reggie story, too. A lot of Archie/Archie & the Gang/Jughead stories as well, of course. I'd say about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of these are by Fernando Ruiz (mostly written by him, too) and the rest mostly by Dan Parent, although there are a few by the Kennedy brothers in there as well. New characters were introduced in some (like Wendy Weatherbee in #10, and Raj Patel and his family in #21). Really, there's some great stuff in this digest that I don't see a lot in other digest titles. Generally there seem to be about 2 or 3 new shorts (10 to 12 pagers for the lead story, then one or two 5 or 6 pagers in the back) in every issue.

Quote from: spazaru on July 02, 2016, 11:55:15 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 02, 2016, 11:36:10 AM

Quote from: spazaru on July 02, 2016, 09:28:58 AM

Quote from: BettyReggie on July 02, 2016, 09:04:32 AM
I read Jughead #6-Volume #1 & #149 & #199 & #200 & #201

Jughead 200 is one of my favorite Archie issues ever

That was the Sabrina story right, where another witch tricks Jughead into selling her his metabolism, essentially? Dan Parent has a print he sells of that cover (I think his was the alternate one).

Yes that's the one!  So maybe adding Sabrina to the new Jughead comic isn't as weird as it seems.

Speaking of "weird", I remember thinking when I read that, that having Sabrina guest-star in a Jughead story was sort of a weird way (and it is kind of a weird Jughead story, and for him, that's saying something) to celebrate a 200th issue. It's a great story however, just not the sort of one I'd expect for a 200th issue. Generally with Archie comics that would mean something like the number 200 would be central to the plot of the story (as the number 666 was for the final issue of ARCHIE, and they used it in ARCHIE #400 too, IIRC) or it would be more of a retrospective type story, with a lot of old characters that hadn't been seen in while all showing up in the story, or something along those lines. The Sabrina thing almost seemed a little random, like when they wrote the story, they weren't even thinking about "which" issue it would come out in. Of course I was glad to see her in that story, and nothing like that had ever been done in an issue of JUGHEAD before.

Quote from: spazaru on July 02, 2016, 09:28:58 AM

Quote from: BettyReggie on July 02, 2016, 09:04:32 AM
I read Jughead #6-Volume #1 & #149 & #199 & #200 & #201

Jughead 200 is one of my favorite Archie issues ever

That was the Sabrina story right, where another witch tricks Jughead into selling her his metabolism, essentially? Dan Parent has a print he sells of that cover (I think his was the alternate one).

Quote from: SAGG on July 02, 2016, 10:50:05 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 02, 2016, 02:15:09 AM

Quote from: SAGG on July 01, 2016, 06:32:31 AM
The more I look at that last panel, the more it looks like the back of a dolphin. It's possible Mr. Lodge wanted to scare the bejeebers out of Jughead by having Jughead THINK it was a shark so Jug would get it through his head NOT to EVER try and pull that stunt off on him of all people...

No, I think the intention was that it's a shark. It's made ambiguous in the picture not intentionally, but accidentally. Because the animal is below the water level, you can't tell whether its tail fins are in aligned in the vertical plane (as a shark's would be) or the horizontal plane (as a dolphin's would be), and the the angle at which the bottom panel line cuts across the animal's body doesn't show the animal's snout, which should be the dead giveaway. That same bottom panel line is bisecting the animal in such a way that what would be the eye of a shark could easily be interpreted as the blowhole of a dolphin. The obfuscation doesn't seem deliberate, though.

Man, I'm telling you, I should be called The Peacemaker on these boards! I'm making DR and daren the best of board-posting buddies! What else can I get them to agree on?

I guess the picture is open to the interpretation of the viewer (not intentionally so, as I said), but the logic of the context of the story is that the funny gag ending would dictate that it's a shark. If we were trying to consider the characters as real people, that would essentially make Mr. Lodge a deliberate murderer, setting up Jughead to be eaten by a shark, but being logical and realistic isn't as important to an Archie story as being funny. Trying to combine the two ideas as you suggest seems to make it too complicated of a gag for anyone to get, even though it's allowing in a sense for both the original gag idea and a more realistic approach to the characters. That, and the fact that Jughead doesn't even react to the idea that "It's a shark!" in the final panel punchline, argues against it.

Just purchased a complete set (120) of Skybox Archie Comic Trading Cards (1992) off ebay.

Quote from: Gisele on July 02, 2016, 04:00:49 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 02, 2016, 03:24:55 AM

Quote from: Gisele on July 02, 2016, 02:40:14 AM
Maybe they never felt they found the right team for it? Comics that feature music are not an easy sell in the States as they are in Europe and Japan, where they are liked and popular there. As a musician myself, my favorite comics that feature music are Beck (Mongolian Chop Squad) and Nana. Both are Japanese properties. Harold Sakuishi, who did Beck, REALLY did his research. I believe he was in bands too. The instruments look great, the stories are believable, AND it's FUNNY. Let's hope we get that with Josie.

Maybe it's because in a comic book, you can't hear the music. That's an inherently limiting factor of the medium, unless digital comics start including soundtracks (too expensive, I know). I've SEEN Jem and the Holograms in a comic book, but I haven't the foggiest idea what the band sounds like. Never saw the animated cartoon. With stuff like KISS, The Archies, and Josie and the Pussycats, I know what they sound like because I've heard the music, but just trying to imagine music that you've never heard before doesn't work. Thinking about it the other day, I wondered why ACP never published a comic book series about The Archies. Maybe that's why, although it doesn't explain why they didn't do it during the time period when the albums were being released. Maybe because they were already on television. The Josie animated cartoon didn't rely on music as much as adventures, and the original comic book tended to concentrate less on their life as a band than on just their day-to-day situations.

In regards to Nana and Beck, they eventually did an animation and a soundtrack for both (highly recommended.) Also, for Beck, they'd include music CDs with certain volumes. These would feature various indie bands in Japan. And it was appropriate since Beck was all about the struggles of making a band, keeping it together, and trying to make a living of it. Making a successful band is quite an accomplishment. In general, not everyone likes each other, but if there's a common goal, and everyone agrees to tolerate each other, they can make it work. And it's not always the best musicians that succeed. It's basically the ones that find the formula that works, and by that I mean, good music, but also people that can work together as a team even if they don't really like each other. It's a business after all at the end of the day. Just finding members is hard (harder if you want to do an all girl band.) It's easy to think "oh, you're a drummer and we need a drummer, let's be in the same band" but that's not how it works. Everyone has their own vision of what band they want to make. So everyone is clashing and have to make compromises for a band to succeed. If they can touch on this with Josie, it COULD be interesting even if you don't head music. We'll see!

Well, if they wanted to get a little crazy with their venture capital funding, ACP could try to start something that might eventually grow into a media phenomenon. Do what the Hanna-Barbera studio originally did, and create a band by hiring talented unknowns to play the roles of Josie, Melody, and Valerie, and hire proven songwriters to write the music. Make some music videos and put them up on YouTube and anywhere else willing to host them. Have the band appear at SDCC and other major comic cons. Offer a downloadable MP3 album to tie into the existing comic book, really try to get some attention and publicity, and maybe they could get some interest going in either a new animated show or a live action one. Maybe include a CD (or just some redemption code) with a trade paperback collection of J&TP.

I see what you're saying about the band experience and putting those kind of details in gives it verisimilitude and makes the characters seem more real to people. At the same time, it can't be about *just* the band experience, because then it seems like you're catering the comic specifically to the audience that can relate because they ARE in a band, have BEEN in a band, or would LIKE to be in a band. That kind of reader probably has her own musical soundtrack in her head as far as what kind of band they are, and what kind of music they're playing. It's a lot harder for the average, non-musician to supply that background soundtrack in her or his head, so it's not connecting as much with those readers. Fans of bands like KISS or The Ramones are going to buy a comic (assuming they read comics) with them in it, and fans of classic Archie will buy it because of that. But unless you're a BIG Archie fan, if you DON'T like the music of KISS or The Ramones, you'd be kind of resistant to buying it. For the people who aren't familiar with the band experience, they need some other stuff in there, probably some unrealistic comedy or fantasy or adventure elements. But it really helps if there's SOME kind of actual music that people can mentally connect to the comic book.

I never really heard of Beck* or Nana (well, not the Japanese manga ones, anyway), but I have the soundtrack (4 CDs) to the Cowboy Bebop anime by The Seatbelts. It's awesome.


* = '90s alternative artist known for "I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me"

Quote from: Gisele on July 02, 2016, 02:40:14 AM
Maybe they never felt they found the right team for it? Comics that feature music are not an easy sell in the States as they are in Europe and Japan, where they are liked and popular there. As a musician myself, my favorite comics that feature music are Beck (Mongolian Chop Squad) and Nana. Both are Japanese properties. Harold Sakuishi, who did Beck, REALLY did his research. I believe he was in bands too. The instruments look great, the stories are believable, AND it's FUNNY. Let's hope we get that with Josie.

Maybe it's because in a comic book, you can't hear the music. That's an inherently limiting factor of the medium, unless digital comics start including soundtracks (too expensive, I know). I've SEEN Jem and the Holograms in a comic book, but I haven't the foggiest idea what the band sounds like. Never saw the animated cartoon. With stuff like KISS, The Archies, and Josie and the Pussycats, I know what they sound like because I've heard the music, but just trying to imagine music that you've never heard before doesn't work. Thinking about it the other day, I wondered why ACP never published a comic book series about The Archies. Maybe that's why, although it doesn't explain why they didn't do it during the time period when the albums were being released. Maybe because they were already on television. The Josie animated cartoon didn't rely on music as much as adventures, and the original comic book tended to concentrate less on their life as a band than on just their day-to-day situations.

Quote from: SAGG on July 01, 2016, 06:32:31 AM
The more I look at that last panel, the more it looks like the back of a dolphin. It's possible Mr. Lodge wanted to scare the bejeebers out of Jughead by having Jughead THINK it was a shark so Jug would get it through his head NOT to EVER try and pull that stunt off on him of all people...

No, I think the intention was that it's a shark. It's made ambiguous in the picture not intentionally, but accidentally. Because the animal is below the water level, you can't tell whether its tail fins are in aligned in the vertical plane (as a shark's would be) or the horizontal plane (as a dolphin's would be), and the the angle at which the bottom panel line cuts across the animal's body doesn't show the animal's snout, which should be the dead giveaway. That same bottom panel line is bisecting the animal in such a way that what would be the eye of a shark could easily be interpreted as the blowhole of a dolphin. The obfuscation doesn't seem deliberate, though.

BEAUTIFUL STORIES FOR UGLY CHILDREN Volume 9: "By the Light of the Screaming Moon" (Piranha Press/DC, April 1990) - Sounds like a graphic novel, but it's actually in the floppy comic format, a short story told in blocks of text with accompanying illustrations on every page, or across a two-page spread, in black and white. This issue tells the story of two sibling teenagers about to attend their junior prom. They're actually lemmings, though, and the realities of their existence come crashing in on them when their parents reveal to them on prom night that the lemming community has reached a peak population period, and that lemming instinct dictates that come tomorrow, the entire population of the town will leap to their deaths from the cliffs overlooking the ocean.

Extremely experimental for the time (and even now), this series ran for 30 issues (each of which featured a standalone story), written by Dave Louapre and illustrated by Dan Sweetman. You can get an idea of the tone of the series simply by looking at the titles of the stories:

A Cotton Candy Autopsy
The Deadjohnson's Big Incredible Day
Diary of a Depressed Tap Dancer
The Black Balloon (A Happy Story)
The Crypt of the Magi
Happy Birthday to Hell
Ricky the Doughnut Boy
Die Rainbow Die: A Story of Hope
By the Light of the Screaming Moon
Where the Tarantulas Play
The Daffodils of Plague Town
Beneath the Useless Universe
A Cotton Candy Autopsy II: Bingo and Addy's Big Escape
Dangerous Prayers
The Pagan Tourist
The Santas of Demolition Street
A Conspiracy of Sweaters
The Neutered Beast
Nice Girls Don't Massacre Ants
Arnold: Confessions of a Blood Junkie
Dances With Cows
Psychotronic Virgin
Tiny, Slimy, Writhing Thing
I Am Paul's Dog
Legion of Ogs
Dead Like Me
The No-Wax Killing Floor
The Guilty Orphan
Gravity Sucks
The Dream Is Dead - Gone, Shot Off, All Squashed Flat

I pick these up whenever I find them in the 50c or $1 boxes.

Quote from: spazaru on July 01, 2016, 07:30:33 PM

Quote from: danparent on July 01, 2016, 07:22:20 PM
Hi guys ,it's been a long time since I've been on here! Thanks to those of you supporting the new Kevin series .  I'm really happy with it ,and it gets even better. As far as the color choices , that was totally my idea. It's not a cost cutting move, since I'm paid the same ! This was originally meant as a trade in my eyes, and I was inspired by the one tone coloring of certain graphic novels .  And the powers that be at Archie def plan to put this in a trade , as we discuss ed this just last week. But I get the coloring isn't for everyone, but it sets a tone that feels right to me .  The main thing is that  there's a lot more Kevin story t o tell. Hope you all enjoy the series , and all comments are welcome !

I loved the first issue Dan!  I'm not crazy about the colors, to be honest, but the story is fun and that's what really matters.  And you're the writer so if you feel ike it feels right to you, then I'm sure we can get used to it and I'm really glad a trade is coming as well.

I agree. I think the monotone coloring is something that I think works beautifully in (as Gisele mentioned) Darwyn Cooke's PARKER graphic novels, a hard-boiled crime/noir series set in the early 1960s. It's just not something that I think works as well for ARCHIE Comics. Plus it sort of disconnects it for me from the original KEVIN KELLER series, and I have this strong desire to believe that there's continuity there between the original series and LIFE WITH KEVIN, that it's not some "possible alternate future" like the parallel worlds of LIFE WITH ARCHIE, but that it really IS Kevin's real future, a few years later after high school -- and that in that sense, classic Archie lives on.

One final thought on digital vs. print comics:
I strongly support the idea of independent comic book retailers, and without print sales, those comic book shops will cease to exist except as "comic-related merchandise boutiques" (t-shirts, posters, action figures, coffee mugs...). Even though I strongly prefer the trade paperback/hardcover or graphic novel over floppy comics, I recognize that comic shop owners need those floppy sales to continue in the business of selling print comics. Although I accept that the death of floppy comics is inevitable and that they'll give way to digital singles, followed by collected print editions, sometime in the near future, I don't want it to happen in MY lifetime that the only floppy comics sold in comic book shops are back issues and variant covers of new comics. I will do everything I can to stave off that future for as long as I can. I can't do anything to influence anyone else to think that way, and maybe they don't even live close enough to a comic book shop, or the hassle involved in driving there isn't worthwhile for them because comic book shops don't carry anywhere near enough of the type of comics that they like, or they just prefer digital because they don't need to be stored and take up space in their house. Digital comics don't need my help. They're pretty much available to anyone, anywhere, that has a device to view them on (which describes most people), so they sell themselves to anyone who has the desire to read them.

I don't think I've ever seen quite that level of reality in an Archie story, Mark. Probably because most of a teenager's day is actually quite boring, at least to read about.

Quote from: Thrillho on July 01, 2016, 12:55:47 PM
Her goldfish remark was in response to Betty, "I can't wait to be a mother one day!" She can wait on being a mother, that's all that statement meant. Not wanting children at 16-18 is not a character flaw.

Even Jellybean understood exactly what Veronica meant. Note that out of the entire story, these are the only three panels where we can see her face where Jellybean appears unhappy or anxious. In the rest of the panels where we can see her face she's smiling, but in all those other panels, there's someone else around to protect her from Veronica. And there's no doubt exactly what Jellybean thinks of her. She clings to her mother as if to plead, "Please don't leave me alone with her!" Some children may be naturally shy or apprehensive that way, but clearly Jellybean isn't one of them. She recognizes Betty, Jughead, and even BRAD as people she can trust to care about her, but not Veronica.

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 06:48:02 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 06:34:03 AM

I think Mrs. Jones would agree that Veronica is better suited to taking care of a goldfish than she is to taking care of Jellybean. I don't think Mrs. Jones has any particular proprietary feelings about the goldfish, though.

Mrs. Jones let Veronica take care of Jellybean here and in other stories and Veronica never shows that trust to be misplaced, if Jellybean's mother doesn't know then who does, besides like I said it's just what Jughead (and most teenagers) would probably say, but just because you think you don't want kids of your own doesn't mean you can't take good care of someone else's for a few hours. (I see you edited your response so I'm editing mine; no I don't think Mrs. Jones would get upset that Veronica used Jellybean to meet a hot guy because Ronnie never mistreated Jellybean apart from making her take part in this silly ploy, but that's no different from things Jughead has done with his sister. And may I remind you again, Mrs. Jones probably has some idea of how tolerant the Lodges are of her son so she'd have some patience if only for that.

Quote
If Veronica fails to take care of her goldfish, well then, she just flushes it down the toilet and buys a new one, the same way she does with most things she tires of.

Well if failing to take care of pets disqualifies you as a baby sitter I guess Jughead shouldn't take care of Jellybean either, did you ever see the story where he ate the pet caged bird Archie gave him? I can't think of a story where Veronica killed a pet but if that goldfish is the only thing to eat when Jughead gets hungry it's swum its last lap. 

But you can't take into account other stories that came AFTER this story, whether you consider there's any continuity there or not. Either you treat the story as standalone, or as having taken place before the others, where she becomes friends with Jellybean. Veronica really doesn't show any concern for Jellybean in THIS story. She doesn't mistreat her, but at the same time, how do we even know she's paying attention to her? Jellybean is just a prop here, so Veronica can meet the male nanny. The effect of her goldfish remark is to indicate she couldn't be bothered to attend to the more complicated needs of a tiny human. I don't think she would have made it in front of Mrs. Jones, at least not after she'd gotten the idea to use Jellybean to spend time with Brad. Nor do I think if she'd said that prior to asking to take Jellybean, that Mrs. Jones would have let her. In Veronica's phone call to Mrs. Jones, Mrs. Jones already seems hesitant, as if she senses something's not quite right. If she'd heard that remark of Veronica's, I think her reply would have been more along the lines of "Well, you're certainly welcome to drop by and visit Jellybean whenever you'd like. Just let me know."

The real irony is that all of this skulking around and being less than forthcoming with Mrs. Jones was completely unnecessary. How about "Hi, Mrs. Jones, this is Betty. Yesterday when I took Jellybean down to Pickens Park, we met a nice boy named Brad. He's studying to be a pediatrician, but in the meantime he's earning money by hiring himself out as a male nanny. He gave me his business card. I wonder if I could invite him over to meet you, and he could spend a little time with Jellybean and me. I'm sure he could teach me a lot about pediatric emergencies, and he'd make an excellent substitute babysitter in case you ever needed one and I wasn't available, if you approve of him." How could she say no to that? Of course, if Veronica made the same call, it might seem like she was trying to cut Betty out of a job. It does make for a dull B&V story, though.

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 05:41:53 AM
I don't know what happened to the comments I posted on this thread yesterday, I should have checked it afterward I guess, but anyway. The ending doesn't bother me because Veronica did make the mean crack about the Joneses so it wasn't TOO much worse for Jughead to lie about her, and in this story Betty does seem close to Jellybean more than Veronica (and Veronica uses Jellybean even though she should be able to see Jellybean doesn't like her) so even though she's just as underhanded as Veronica here it's okay with me that she comes out ahead.

But I don't agree that Betty's ethical violations are usually treated more harshly than Veronica's, if anything it's the other way around especially in Dan Parent's stories, maybe because he likes Veronica more he holds her to a higher standard or something, I also don't see anything wrong with Veronica's goldfish remark and it's the EXACT kind of thing Jughead would say so I think Mrs. Jones would just laugh if she heard it. Besides Jughead's pulled so many uncalled for stunts on Veronica that Veronica has obviously never told her own parents about, I think he must appreciate that in a reciprocal way.

If she were made aware of everything that happened in this story, I think Mrs. Jones would agree that Veronica is better suited to taking care of a goldfish than she is to taking care of Jellybean. I don't think Mrs. Jones has any particular proprietary feelings about the goldfish, though. If Veronica fails to take care of her goldfish, well then, she just flushes it down the toilet and buys a new one, the same way she does with most things she tires of. You may say that's a ridiculous analogy, but let's bear in mind who it was that made the analogy in the first place.