Quote from: Thrillho on July 01, 2016, 02:41:53 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
I wonder what would have happened if Jughead had used his Time Police Beanie to go back to that moment in the park where Betty and Veronica were talking, and used a camcorder to record Veronica's comment about "I'll stick to goldfish! They're less work!" and showed it to Mrs. Jones? I'm pretty sure Mrs. Jones would have gone ballistic on Veronica if she could have seen THAT.

OH MY GOD. THAT B**CH!!

I doubt Mrs. Jones would have batted an eye at that. Veronica acknowledging at 16-18 she's not ready to be a mother and better suited to caring for goldfish is actually reasonable and I find it strange you thought that statement was alarming.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
What was the proper ethical course of action for Jughead to take when he learned of the situation?

Uh, let Veronica bring Jellybean home like she and Mrs. Jones agreed upon? Furthermore, Betty just assumes that Veronica has male company and she and Jughead set her up with no proof. How can he go to Mrs. Jones before the fact when there is no evidence she's keeping company with someone else?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AMThe REAL crime here is that Veronica has deceived Mrs. Jones into believing that she's leaving her daughter with a responsible and loving caregiver.

She did, it just wasn't her.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
How would YOU feel if it were your child?

Don't have any. Don't want any. I'll stick to goldfish myself. If you're a parent, can you weigh in?

No, what you said is pretty self-explanatory. No need to belabor the point any further.

Quote from: Thrillho on June 30, 2016, 10:05:39 PM
I'll concede Betty probably didn't come up with the kidnapping angle but once she found out Veronica was pulling the same scheme she wanted to, she conspired with Jughead to make Veronica look bad and get the nanny for herself. Why else would she be hanging around the Lodge mansion and thanking Jughead, saying she owes him? This story was also featured in a Betty vs. Veronica digital collection signifying that this is a Betty/Veronica conflict, not Jughead/Veronica.

Jughead's already chomping at the bit to "do it again". Can't say I have much sympathy for Veronica here, either. Veronica is expected to be imperfect, so the severity of any ethical violations she commits is reduced, while Betty, on the other hand IS expected to be perfect, so the severity of any ethical violations SHE commits are treated that much more harshly. On the other hand, no credit is given to the fact that Betty cares about and loves Jellybean. Veronica couldn't care less about her in this story, only about herself and what she can gain from Jellybean. Why do you think Jughead LIKES Betty, but DISlikes Veronica? The REAL crime here is that Veronica has deceived Mrs. Jones into believing that she's leaving her daughter with a responsible and loving caregiver. Betty, on the other hand, isn't expected to behave like a normal teenager at all -- she's expected to be inhumanly perfect, and immune to her natural attraction to Brad. Since that's pretty much typical behavior for Veronica, she gets excused.

What was the proper ethical course of action for Jughead to take when he learned of the situation?
1. Do nothing. What's done is done. Take it under advisement, and don't allow Veronica to sit with Jellybean in the future.
2. Alert Mrs. Jones to what's going on, and let her deal with the situation. (THAT actually might have been interesting. Certainly more dramatic, but not as funny.)
3. Go and collect Jellybean on some pretext, but don't embarrass Veronica.

You COULD argue that by not telling his mother, and instead merely embarrassing Veronica in front of Brad, Jughead has actually let Veronica off lightly. I wonder what would have happened if Jughead had used his Time Police Beanie to go back to that moment in the park where Betty and Veronica were talking, and used a camcorder to record Veronica's comment about "I'll stick to goldfish! They're less work!" and showed it to Mrs. Jones? I'm pretty sure Mrs. Jones would have gone ballistic on Veronica if she could have seen THAT. Even just telling her what happened, of course Mrs. Jones is going to take Jughead and Betty's version of the story over Veronica's version. Consider Mrs. Jones' phone conversation with Veronica... "But you just SAW her this afternoon!" -- Mrs. J. seems to dimly sense that something is not quite kosher here, but doesn't listen to her motherly instinct -- "Well, OKAY! For a little while!". NOW how do you think she's going to react when she learns WHY Veronica wanted to take Jellybean?

On the other hand, how would Mrs. Jones react if Betty admitted that the reason she called and asked to take Jellybean that evening was that she wanted to have an excuse to spend some time with Brad? Mrs. Jones was a teenager once too, and knowing as she does that Betty really DOES care about Jellybean, helps ameliorate the ethical crime here. How would YOU feel if it were your child?

Quote from: invisifan on June 30, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
I can't say that any really stuck out from the pack as it were, but that said they pack as a whole was way above average for that sort of cartoon/and era ...

For 1999?  Compared to say, Batman Beyond, or Powerpuff Girls, or Spongebob Squarepants, or Family Guy, or Futurama, or Mickey MouseWorks, or what then?

Well, it was certainly better than Sabrina the Animated Series, I guess...

Quote from: Thrillho on June 30, 2016, 12:35:29 PM
I do wonder what happens when Nanny Boy finds out the truth, that Betty set up Veronica to look like a kidnapper to get a date with him.

I don't know about that. Looks to me, if I read it right, that's all on Jughead. A bit over the top on the overacting there. Did something happen in between that panel where Betty says "We should get Jellybean back. It's late" and when Veronica phoned Mrs. Jones to "borrow" Jellybean? How did Betty set her up to do that? Were mirrors involved? Why would Betty call Mrs. Jones and ask to take Jellybean if she knew Veronica had her? Other than that, it seems like Betty didn't actually DO anything. The fact that she benefits from Jughead's "rescue" of the "kidnapped" Jellybean is immaterial. She doesn't have some kind of mind-control powers to make people do what she wants them to. Nope, it's all Jughead from what I see there. Betty may have alerted him to the fact that Veronica had Jellybean, but then again it might have been Mrs. Jones who told him (he does live there) -- hard to say, the story doesn't tell us that. Appears to me that the real winner here is Jughead. I do kind of wonder how he explained to his mother why he was bringing Jellybean home instead of Veronica. It's a mystery, I guess.

Quote from: The Downloader on June 30, 2016, 11:27:08 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 30, 2016, 02:40:35 AM

Quote from: irishmoxie on April 29, 2016, 04:15:34 PM
There seems to be 2 types of posters on this forum. Those obsessed with classic Archie and that's the only comic they read and those that read lots of comics and Archie just happens to be one of them. I actually quite enjoy the "What comics are you reading thread?". I get a lot of recommendations from there.

2 other types:
Those who read ONLY Archie Comics (but not JUST classic Archie) = spazaru

Those who read LOTS of comics, but for comics featuring the Archie characters, only really like the classic ones (= me). Not my fault they cancelled NEW CRUSADERS, THE FOX, and MEGA MAN - I enjoyed those, but not Dark Circle titles, Sonic titles, or New Riverdale titles. If Archie Horror goes on long enough, I'm sure I'll probably tire of those (just hanging in there hoping for some kind of resolution to the storylines).

The active threads here generally break down into six main interests:

1 - New Riverdale titles
2 - Archie digest/classic
3 - Archie Horror
4 - Riverdale TV
5 - ACP company/publishing/editorial (including solicitations)
6 - non-comics discussion

The reason there isn't more "other comics" discussion is pretty simple, when you think about it.

1 - At any given time, there are something like 1000 comic book titles being published.
2 - Of those, even the most voracious of comic readers can read only a tiny percentage.
3 - Of the active posters here, there are only a bare handful reading a significant number of titles other than ACP (or at least, a bare handful who have anything to say about them).
4 - Given the small number of other titles (apart from ACP) being read by active posters in relation to the potential number of titles out there, the overlap between any two active posters' reading lists is marginal.
5 - The same titles that any two active posters may be reading may fall on an entirely different range of the spectrum for each reader. In that slim margin of overlap, the comic that most excites you and about which you have a lot to say, may be a title about which I have little or nothing to say.
6 - All of the above being the case, "other comics" discussion tends to peak in "Archie-related" comics discussion (Pixie Trix, SitComics, AstroComix).

Id like to add one to the bottom list:  7 - Not everyone has A Thousand Dollars to spend on Comics Per Week (between ACP and every other CPC.

OK, let's just call that 2a instead. Related to. Even if you had TIME to read 1000 comic books, you can't afford them, just a tiny percentage. Some tinier percentages than others, depending on your income and expenses.

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:29:39 AM
I hope my comment about plants didn't sound wrong, I meant that ACP might have hired a plant to come on the board, not that Oldiesmann did. 

Maybe not plants. Lurkers, however...

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 30, 2016, 10:39:02 AM
I was underwhelmed by the conclusion of Plutona. It made me want to be reading Paper Girls instead.

Yeah, that one was a loaner. It seemed sort of promising at the beginning, but all it really amounted to was a heapin' helpin' of teen angst.

I was almost tempted to read Paper Girls. I love Cliff Chiang's artwork. I just don't understand Brian K. Vaughn's writing though. It's impenetrable to me.

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 30, 2016, 10:13:51 AM
As Gisele said, I guess it was a conscious aesthetic choice by Dan Parent to only do 3 colors and it happens to look "indie." Methinks he was just busy during convention season and thought this was easier to do for the same money. Compare how much work goes into the coloring of Life with Kevin versus Jem and the Holograms. But the reason a lot of indie comics look like that and have less color is because they have less funds to pump into a colorist. I guess you could say they want to be minimalist because that is the indie artistic look but I think it's due to cost. Why do they re-release colored versions of the same comics i.e. Scott Pilgrim, Chynna Clugston's Blue Monday, Sophie Campbell's Wet Moon years later once the artist has "made it"? Is that imploring the same consumers to buy it again or to reach new fans who might not have otherwise read it in the black and white version?

My own theory is, something must be done to send the message "LOOK AT ME! I'm NOT YOUR FATHER'S ARCHIE COMICS!" and that something in this case (since J Bone's inking alone is not distinguishing the artwork to the casual reader) is the coloring.

Why do they release color versions of those comics? The same reason they released a print version (of what was originally a webcomic) in the first place. Expand the audience. Some will not read it as a webcomic, but will read it as a print comic. And some will not read it as a BLACK AND WHITE print comic, but only as a color comic, so... further expansion of the existing audience. Once they've made enough money to underwrite the costs. Independent, creator-owned, webcomics. NOTHING LIKE ARCHIE COMICS PUBLICATIONS INC. I expect that from Pixie Trix and AstroComix. Darin of SitComics, bless his soul, is draining his own bank account to do a color print comic. And I love him for it. Those are just names. Really, Pixie Trix, AstroComix, and SitComics aren't "companies". They are one or two people doing it all by themselves. When they hire people to work for them, they pay them out of their own pocket. Creator and publisher are the same thing. I don't mean that pejoratively, as in "they're not a REAL company", I mean it in the best sense of "subtract the creator, and there IS no company".

As for how much ACP is making for profit on it, it is what it is. They've been in business for 75 years, they are not a lone person starting from scratch. They better not be asking for my charity, because I can tell you for a fact, regardless of whatever money problems they have or had, they're still richer than me. And I don't have venture capitalists financing me either. Dan & Fernando can do a print comic, Gisele can do a print comic, and Darin can do a print comic. Lone creative individuals, but ArchieCo, in business for 75(+) years, needs MY help to cross that huge chasm from digital to print??

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:13:51 AM





I don't think b-ko is going to be happy when he finds out Roberto's tweeting his or her edits.

They won't be happy until the whole world is /slash/.

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:21:02 AM
Hi richard, you have to complain directly to Archie Comics for that (and you should--that sucks): www.archiecomics.com. This is an independent forum.

That reminds me. I've been reading some of the older digests and keep coming across either letter pages, fan art pages, or "Find Your Name In Print" pages. There were editorial pages, and sometimes a whole page devoted to "Send us your emails @".

I see NOTHING like that in today's digests. It's like...

"WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION. EITHER BUY IT OR DON'T, BUT LEAVE US ALONE. WE'VE GOT ENOUGH TO DO WITHOUT LISTENING TO YOUR PROBLEMS, WHINES AND RANTS"

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 05:03:25 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

Come on De, if they don't sell enough of the digital version there might not be a print edition, I'll buy you a copy.

Come on, ACP has got megabuck investors now. That's why I'm scratching my head when @irishmoxie says they're pinching the pennies on this one. And (I hope this isn't the case in actuality) somehow it seems like I'm getting the impression that KEVIN is being looked at by people as something that is "fringe market" that we have to underwrite as a charity, because it's the right thing to do.

EDIT:  I actually took some time to have a good hard think about this. Here's what I came up with...

Comics are available in a lot of different formats today. Digital, floppy singles, and TPBs. Sometimes HCs, as well. And I had to mull over your theory that if they don't sell enough digital copies, there won't be a print copy. It seems to me the problem is exactly the opposite. Too many people are going to be satisfied to buy the digital copy, and there it ends for them. Why should they be required to buy it twice? They're not made of money, right? And this is coming from a guy who double-dips FAR more than is rational for a sensible person. I can't begin to even think about all the money I've spent on TPBs and HCs containing stories I'd already purchased as floppies. Digital... eh, not so much. It's not my preferred format. Nor is it reasonable for a comic book publisher to expect consumers to purchase the same story twice -- but ACP consumers somehow can't even avoid that. How many times have I read the SAME story over again in another digest or TPB? Again, FAR more than is the case for any other comic book publisher that I can think of.

But to get to the point here... It's PRINT that needs your charity as a comic book fan, not digital. Digital has practically zero overhead for the publisher other than the payments to the creators. PRINT has LOTS more overhead, with printers and distributors that have to be paid. If the creators have already been paid, the only question is whether the printers and distributors can be paid. They certainly won't be getting that money from the people who bought digital, were happy with that, and moved on to newer digital comics. And again -- they shouldn't be depending on people to buy it twice. That's an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation. Some people have already given up on print, and moved on. I'm not one of them. So I guess that's where my true loyalties lie. IF it turns out that the TPB is solicited, and then cancelled, THEN I'll consider buying digital -- if print isn't an option, but it's not my preference, and I have to make that known somehow.

Quote from: Thrillho on June 29, 2016, 07:13:50 PM
Veronica's lie about the Jones' was terrible but I don't really see how she is any worse than Betty who would have done the same.

Thanks for posting that. Again, it's one I know I have in a collection somewhere... but ??

I guess the only mitigating factor/ethical difference for Betty is that she and Jellybean have a relationship already, and they genuinely like one another. Betty might be using her a little bit here, but she loves spending time with Jellybean anyway, so really she's not trying to trick this guy into thinking she's compassionate and caring when she isn't (unlike Veronica, who doesn't even really like Jellybean in this story).

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:23:02 AM
Yeah exactly, the classic Archie talents could take it in a whole new direction. I like your idea of a group title too.


Possible stories: Betty's title could be in the tone of Betty's Diary with Betty journaling and planning to be a writer. She could have Sayid as a boyfriend, at least at first, Sayid has a lot of younger brothers and sisters and Betty likes kids, somehow I'd like to see Sayid as a cat person too so that would give them another link. Then there could be some drama dealing with Islamophobia the way they dealt with homophobia a few years ago with Betty and Sayid just wanting to be a quiet couple but some people won't let them, then maybe Betty's brother Chic visits Riverdale as part of his CIA job because of some alleged anti government activity by someone close to Sayid, and Chic has to balance his commitment to national security with civil liberties (and not hurting his sister), but it turns out to be a false alarm. Kevin could spend some time with them too, usually I like him better with Veronica but for this story I think he would be good. Cheryl might be there too since she gets along better with Betty than anyone and Betty has some of the same chemistry with her that she has with Veronica, and then Jason could show up and be a rival with Sayid for Betty.

These are some good ideas. I'd like to see some others in the mix as well. Possibly toss in Adam as well, as the ex-boyfriend who still has feelings for "just friends" Betty. You already mentioned Chic, but Polly should be in there as well. Betty's the only character with older siblings, and I'd like to see her relationship with them explored some more, plus both characters are good potential generators of plots and subplots. A little more expansion on Betty's relationship with her parents, as well, both as individuals and as a family unit. Toss a few more gal pals in as well, like Tomoko, Midge and Nancy, and maybe explore a little rivalry between Betty and new kid Chloe Mancuso. Both of them are achievers and involved in a lot of school activities.

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:23:02 AM
I'd like to see Jughead spend more time with Hot Dog and his Uncle Herman (his REAL Uncle Herman, the one who hasn't been around since the '50s) and maybe Souphead, Uncle Herman would get them into all kinds of trouble. I also like the whole detective Jughead idea from the digests (the one the tv show is going with) so he could do some of that with mysteries involving food. Ethel and Trula could show up and be rivals for Jughead with neither of them getting anywhere till in one story he's driven to fake his own death. They could also show a little more of the Jones family history and relatives, they seem like the most interesting Riverdale family besides the Lodges.

Oh, without a doubt, Trula has GOT to be in there. I like bringing back Uncle Herman (the original) and Souphead as well, and exploring his wacky and eccentric relatives, both historic and present day (along with Uncle Herman). Then there's the OTHER side of Jughead's family, the side with the other Uncle Herman (last name never revealed) and cousin Bingo Wilkin -- if only we can establish what Gladys and Wilma's maiden name and Herman's last name is. They should occasionally visit, or Jughead visit them. I definitely want Toni Topaz in there too. I can see some potential for interesting stories involving her, Jughead, Trula and/or Ethel (which might be the world's only four-way love quadrangle involving a possible asexual). The detective thing can be a reoccuring plotline to break up Jughead's more "normal" (for whatever that's worth in reference to Jughead) routine. Maybe add a couple of new characters to the supporting cast, as well.

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:23:02 AM
For Reggie I'd like him to spend a LOT more time with both his parents, also to see Reggie spend more time at his father's newspaper doing a lot of jobs that end up causing trouble but we also see that he's smarter than he's sometimes given credit for. I've always wanted to see Reggie be friends with Chuck too, just because neither of them have a close friend (not that there's anything wrong with that but we need some drama) and they're both into sports. Except Chuck is more of a henpecked cartoonist now, so Reggie starts trying to get Chuck to spend more time doing sports and maybe cruising around with him picking up girls, which causes stress between them, between Chuck and Nancy and between Nancy and Reggie. Coach Clayton would be a big part too, and Moose and Midge just because their triangle is funny sometimes.

But... WHAT ABOUT MIDGE ?? Only half-kidding. It may be played-out or too impolitic for the Moose/Midge\Reggie triangle in the 21st century -- unless there's a new wrinkle to dig up. It's already old hat unless there's something NEW to be added. Dirty tricks and pranks - a thing of the past? Somehow I feel there should be a Reggie the schemer/dreamer/manipulator angle in here somewhere. It just seems a little too bland if you make him TOO nice. WHAT ABOUT HARPER ??

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:23:02 AM
Veronica would be the one main character I would want to see without ANY supporting characters except her relatives and the Lodge staff, I'd like to see if it could be pulled off. Or maybe there would be a few appearances by Kevin just showing him talking to her on the phone, but that's all. Her title would be all about her having to learn about her dad's business trying to come to grips with what's expected of her someday as his heir, finding her place in the sprawling Lodge family tree which we would learn more about as we see her meeting her relatives (both the ones we know like Leroy, Marcy and Harper and new ones) and learning about all the family drama which would have partly included her father as we see flashbacks to his younger years and such, and flashbacks to Veronica's younger years and she has self-realizations and identity crises, the Lodges are so full of potential I can't really decide on one approach.

The "learning about the family business" angle is a good one. Don't forget that Veronica loves to play as well, so she needs to jet off to Milan or Paris or Hong Kong every so often and "live la dolce vita". A lot of these stories can be about Veronica learning some kind of life lesson (without getting too preachy about it -- this would be mostly character-building scenarios). Otherwise I'm liking the general premise. What about BOYS?

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:23:02 AM
Archie's both the hardest and easiest one, the easiest because he would have the easiest time by far of selling his own title and the hardest because I can't think of anything I REALLY want to see him do because he does so much already. Probably something to do with a lot of physical danger and risks, he's good at that and would make a lot of exciting stories, with a lot of girls thrown in. Maybe Dilton could have some kind of partnership with him where Archie's his ongoing test subject.

Archie's desperate enough for money to volunteer himself as a human guinea pig. That seems both plausible for his character, as well as something that could generate a lot of funny situations, plus I really like Dilton, and would like to see him appearing somewhere on a regular basis. I like the part where you added "lots of girls".  Maybe some of those plots could be Archie trying to help Dilton out in the relationship department, with decidedly mixed results.

I had a few additional thoughts about this issue. While Derek Charm's artwork (which I'd been looking forward to seeing) made it the most artistically pleasing issue so far, I was left with a feeling of being underwhelmed, because of all the individual issues, it felt the least satisfactory to me as far as the writing was concerned.

One of the things I'd liked about the previous issues (but the artwork was turning me off to the series otherwise) was that it was kind of written like a modern update of JUGHEAD'S FANTASY, incorporating the bits with Jughead's video game episodes, Jughead's Time Police, the Man From R.I.V.E.R.D.A.L.E., and Captain Hero and the superteens into that framework. That fantasy/weird angle helped make up for what I felt was lacking in comedy, largely due to the decompressed storytelling.

What I DIDN'T like about #7 was that it was sort of ho-hum as far as the plot was concerned. Although there was a BIT of weirdness with the Mantle family of clones, mostly this issue's story struck me as though it was a standard 5-pager that had been expanded to fit an entire issue. The plot was pretty bare and uninteresting, and not much happened. Squished down into a 5-page story, it might have worked, but the expansion to fill an entire issue just resulted in padding the plot with teen angst, and destroyed whatever comedic timing it would have had as a compressed 5-pager.

I'm guessing that the people that liked it most, liked it because of the co-starring appearance of Archie, and the fact that this was probably the single issue that most felt like it fit into the universe of New Riverdale -- in other words, the people that liked it most were those people who are already extremely happy with the way the new Archie title is going.

I'm hoping the fantasy/weirdness returns along with Sabrina in issue #8.

ARCHIE DOUBLE DIGEST #270