Quote from: Thrillho on June 27, 2016, 05:35:21 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 25, 2016, 01:28:09 PM

I'm sure I have "Beach Blanket Babysitters" in a collection somewhere, but I can't remember where now. And since you didn't post the entire story, I can't remember exactly how it started now or what it was that changed Jellybean's mind about Veronica and made her decide that she was her friend after all. Let's remember here that Jellybean is just a child too, who's just having some innocent fun, and perhaps being a little mischievous as well. Let's not forget the point of the story, which is that Jellybean is capable of making her own choices, and isn't just some kind of puppet for Jughead to use to carry out his will.

As far as continuity is concerned, you're mistaken about there not being ANY between stories in Archie Comics. Sometimes there is, and sometimes there isn't. In most cases where there is, a footnote will alert the reader to the prior story, but just because there isn't a footnote, I don't assume no continuity unless there's a direct contradiction that seems to say otherwise. I'm thinking specifically about a couple of B&V Christmas stories ("Jingles All the Way" and "Holiday Watch") featuring both Jingles (and his human guise of Jimmy) and Sugar Plum (and her human guise as Summer), which appeared almost a year apart and ARE connected (and a footnote tells you so). In the next story in which the two characters appear together, there's no continuity with the prior two stories -- and all of them are by Dan Parent.

I assumed in "Beach Blanket Babysitters" that it was referencing the first story where Veronica basically uses Jellybean for selfish reasons to cast herself in a favorable light as a caring person who loves children (when the opposite is the true case, in reality, in that first story), and that Jellybean was somehow remembering that. I didn't read "Hey Sister" in the order it came out, I read it as a reprint, so I wasn't really sure where it fit vis-a-vis the other two Jellybean/Veronica stories. There's yet another Veronica/Jellybean story involving Mr. Lodge (who turns out to be a collector of valuable old PEZ dispensers, one of which Jellybean takes a fancy to) as well, and I think that's the one I was thinking of as the second story.

To reiterate:

Quote from: Thrillho on June 25, 2016, 12:04:21 PM
All we know in "Beach Blanket Babysitters" is that Jughead influenced Jellybean to be anti-Veronica for no apparent reason other than he wants to mess with her.

There is no editors note, no call-backs (except Jug and Ron's tension) and I'm not going to do any mental gymnastics to try to justify that Veronica did something to warrant Jughead and Jellybean's pranks and I highly doubt Archie Comics or Dan Parent expects us to remember every story and connect them all together without an editor's note. All daren and I noticed was that Jughead tends to mess with Veronica without provocation more likely than she is, though the vast majority of Jughead vs Veronica stories tend to have them go at it in a response to something.

Well, whatever works for you guys. When I'm reading these stories, I'm not necessarily analyzing when and where they may have been published. I don't read an Archie digest, finish the story, and then go look it up on the GCDb to try to place it in context of the company's publishing history. Sometimes I'll do that later for select character appearances, but indexing is spotty. Ironically, the day I read your reply was the same day that B&V FRIENDS COMICS ANNUAL #249 had come in the mail, so I got to read "Beach Blanket Babysitters" again -- they reprinted the story again in that issue. Weird synchronicity, huh?

The other thing is that when I read all three of the stories, there just seemed to be a logical continuity there between the first one (blanking on the title here) where Veronica used Jellybean as an unwitting accomplice, in trying to make a good impression on the hunky male nanny she met in the park, and it ticked Jughead off when he discovered it. Then I happened to read "Beach Blanket Babysitters" not too long afterwards, and it just seemed like a logical progression from the first story. The "mental gymnastics" involved amounted to me thinking "Oh yeah, there was that story where Veronica babysat Jellybean... THAT didn't end too well for her", instead of reading her say "Her brother has poisoned her mind against me" and me thinking "Uh... well THAT sounds just a little cray-cray..."  (because I'm not as nice as Betty, who just says "That's just silly.") ... Yeah, and slightly insane, too, considering that she says this before anything has even happened in THIS story.

So in order for me to believe that Veronica is more or less interacting with Jellybean for the first time here, I need to believe not only that she's totally paranoid when it comes to Jughead, but that Jughead carefully instructed a toddler to put sand in Veronica's sandwich, throw cold sand on her, bury her up to her neck in sand, and then put a plastic spider in the middle of her forehead. And HOW exactly does Jughead know that Veronica's going to be going to the beach with Betty the day that Betty was scheduled to babysit Jellybean? I sort of have to wonder how Jughead is so omniscient that he knows that Veronica is going to decide to take a nap on the beach, giving his remotely controlled puppet a chance to do his dirty work by burying her, too. The only thing we know for a fact here is that Jughead gave Jellybean a plastic spider. Jellybean could have told him what she did with it afterwards. I guess he could have suggested that she use it to play a trick on Veronica (assuming Betty had informed him well in advance that she planned to take Jellybean to the beach that day, and was taking Veronica along, too) "in response to something". Frankly, it's a lot easier to believe that the prior story happened, and Jellybean didn't like Veronica because of that.

Then there's the other one where Veronica's genuinely interested in Jellybean for herself, and just because she's cute -- she wishes she had a little sister like her, and gets obsessed and is spending too much time at the Jones' house, which naturally seems to take place after "Beach Blanket Babysitters", where Ronnie and Jellybean become friends, and Veronica followed Betty's suggestion to "introduce her (Jellybean) to your world". Something she's continuing to do in the story where she's spending so much time at the Jones house. So it's a little like connect-the-dots when you're just reading whole bunches of these stories trying to catch up with years worth of the company's publishing efforts. "Oh yeah, it seems like this one came before that one, and the other one seems like it came after." Sure, if you read them exactly the way they came out, it's going to seem a lot different, with sometimes huge gaps of time between stories.

Quote from: Gisele on June 28, 2016, 10:54:51 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
No, this was a conscious aesthetic choice.

Yup! Dan inspired himself from the Parker books by Darwyn Cooke. I like the results myself.

The PARKER books are absolutely brilliant. That was a great choice on Darwyn's part (he will be missed).

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 09:05:11 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 06:35:14 PM

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

You're missing out. Like Daren said it fills that void that classic Archie left. I didn't like the color scheme at first but I got used to it as I read on.

Given that it's a miniseries, it shouldn't be that long of a wait. I REALLY would like to see it in full color, but if that doesn't happen for print, I'll still buy it anyway. It's not even the lack of color per se in a comic book that bothers me. If this were an independent series with all new characters by Dan and J Bone, I'd be fine with it. It just sort of bugs me that they're trying to disassociate the series from classic Archie by using the coloring palette as a lever.

I think they went with the minimal color because it's cheaper and they were in a rush to get it out not because they were trying to be "indie."

That can't be right. It's DIGITAL. There's no INK to pay for, so it's not as if ONE color only costs 25% of what FOUR colors would cost. They still have to pay a colorist to color it whether that colorist is only using a single color, or multiple colors. What, you think somehow the colorist is going to accept only 1/4 of his normal pay rate per page? People who work in the comics industry are paid by the page, not by the hour. If I was a colorist and someone told me that they wanted the book done in one color, would I be willing to do it for 1/4 the page rate I normally get? -- I'd say "PASS". What did they save, a few extra mouse clicks for the colorist in switching back and forth between different colors? No, this was a conscious aesthetic choice. You might argue that the decision was an artistic one rather than an attempt to "disassociate from classic Archie", but either way it couldn't be proven. I have my suspicions, though.

Quote from: Gisele on June 28, 2016, 08:59:43 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:34:03 PM
Of COURSE Amazon isn't doing this out of altruism. They have to make a profit. But the publisher's overhead is low compared to having to contract with a printer for a print run, which would be the case going through direct distribution with Diamond Comics. And of course, you have options as a seller. You can sell digital only, digital + POD (printed and shipped by Amazon), or digital plus print sales (Z-shops) from your existing print stock (shipped by the publisher, not Amazon).

There's no cost to put books on Amazon. You just lose roughly 70% of the sale! Use a publisher, and you're left with 10% of the sale!

That's pretty much what I said, isn't it? Amazon makes its profit off every sale, but 30% of the sale price is better than the 10% you'd get from Diamond (and you have to cover your own printing costs).

The math doesn't lie. 30% of nothing is still nothing, and is the same amount as 10% of nothing. So if you don't sell a copy on Amazon, that's what you're getting, nothing. It's not an either/or situation, it's profit in addition to the profit you're already making! MOST of those potential Amazon customers have never even heard of Gumroad, so you're really not competing with yourself. So what if you make more profit off a print copy you sold on Gumroad or a digital one that you sold on ComiXology? Money is money. What's your out-of-pocket expense for putting the digital copy on Amazon? It's a numbers racket, and it all comes down to selling more copies.

What you do is you put it up on Amazon, and YOUR existing readers SELL the book for you to people who have never even heard of your comics. That's why there are all those links in there to other products that the same customers bought. So if someone bought RANMA 1/2, and they also bought EERIE CUTIES, then your product appears on the page for people who are looking for RANMA 1/2. Then if they click on it, and read positive reviews for EERIE CUTIES that (for example) compare it favorably to RANMA 1/2, people are likely to order products that other people that like the same things as them (like RANMA 1/2 for example) liked. I can't even begin to tell you all the money I've spent on products from Amazon that I would never have known existed if they hadn't been linked to other products that I happened to be actually looking for.

Another point to add is that people buy a lot of stuff from Amazon because it's the big-box warehouse superstore of the internet. Just like someone goes to Walmart or Target if they can find 10 different things they're looking for, instead of say, going to the mall and walking around to 4 or 5 different stores. One-stop shopping. Funny thing about that though -- if I only went to Target looking for 10 different things, somehow, I wind up walking out with 6 or 8 extra things I didn't plan on buying in the first place.

If I like comics from Marvel, IDW, and Archie, and Pixie Trix, then the same thinking applies. I don't want to go to a store for each individual product I'm looking to buy if I can get it all in one place (and many people get the Amazon Prime account, because that is their #1 MAIN store to shop at, but otherwise if you spend $40 you can get free shipping). But the same applies whether we're talking about free shipping or just the convenience of not hopping back and forth between a number of different online stores where you have to create a new account, etc. No lie -- I live in a condo building with an outside mailbox, and I look out the window to check to see if the mail's been delivered by looking at my neighbor across the parking lot's front doorstep -- this family has 2 to 4 packages from Amazon delivered almost every single day.

Well, now I have to be brutally honest and admit my own experience. I once went to Gumroad and filled up a shopping cart with $150 dollars worth of your print editions. When I saw the shipping charges, I hesitated. Then I divided the total cost with shipping by the number of books I was ordering, to see what each individual book was actually costing me. Long story short -- I didn't complete the order. Now, I would love to find those same books at my local comic store or a convention, and would happily pay what I consider to be an extremely reasonable cover price for them. If the print versions were available to order on Amazon, I would have ordered them long ago. In the 20 years I've been shopping on Amazon, I've NEVER paid a shipping charge, except if it was a z-shops seller shipping an out-of-print book that I just HAD to have. All of the products that I've ordered over the years (and it's probably better that I DON'T know how much I've spent there over the years) have been shipped to me from Amazon for free, because I NEVER have a problem finding $40 (used to be $25, years ago) worth of products that I need there.

You just have to look at the glass half-full perspective, not the other way around.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on June 28, 2016, 08:23:37 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 27, 2016, 02:37:10 PM

Quote from: Archiecomicxfan215 on June 27, 2016, 02:13:25 PM
okay, what happened here?

Some kind of kinky fantasy dream sequence of Archie's?? 

At first glace I thought it was Lucey's work, then it looked like Decarlo, but it is actually Bob White 

Or as I like to call him, the severely underrated Bob White. He only worked for ACP for a comparatively brief span (a little less than a decade), but his is some fine artwork. LIFE WITH ARCHIE was his baby during that time, but he also contributed to numerous other titles, with quite a few covers during that time (as well as doing everything on COSMO THE MERRY MARTIAN, his own creation).

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 28, 2016, 03:26:54 PM
So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

You're missing out. Like Daren said it fills that void that classic Archie left. I didn't like the color scheme at first but I got used to it as I read on.

Given that it's a miniseries, it shouldn't be that long of a wait. I REALLY would like to see it in full color, but if that doesn't happen for print, I'll still buy it anyway. It's not even the lack of color per se in a comic book that bothers me. If this were an independent series with all new characters by Dan and J Bone, I'd be fine with it. It just sort of bugs me that they're trying to disassociate the series from classic Archie by using the coloring palette as a lever.

Quote from: SAGG on June 28, 2016, 01:13:33 PM

Quote from: daren on June 28, 2016, 02:13:58 AM
This is a good question, I need to sit on it. I can't write that well and I wouldn't want to do any creative work for Archie anyway but if I was a billionaire who bought the company one thing I would try as an experiment would be rehiring the classic Archie artists to write and draw titles for each of the main five with the rule that none of them could appear in each other's books. Even though they work best as a unit I'd want to see how they each stand up on their own. But I have to think about what they'd each do.

I agree of the part where you make the billionaire point and rehiring the Classic Archie artists and such, but the other Archie characters couldn't appear in each other's books? that would seem to me to be pretty difficult to pull off. For example, how could Jughead not be in Archie's book for a panel or two, at least, the same for Betty and Ronica? I mean, even Daredevil has appeared in a Spider-Man book or spin off, and vice versa...

No, I think I can see what Daren's saying (and I agree, if I'm reading it right). In order for each character to be the STAR of his own title, it would work better if none of the other "star" characters were part of the regular ongoing supporting cast. That gives you a chance to break the existing mold, and not rely on repetition of the same previously-existing character relationships over and over.

Not to say that Archie or Jughead could NEVER ever appear in an issue of Reggie's comic, but that that would amount to a "guest appearance" in the same way Spider-Man appearing in DAREDEVIL would. Spider-Man's relationship to Daredevil isn't something that the book relies on as its main source of character interaction. So Archie, Betty, Veronica, Jughead and Reggie are all more or less forced to develop their OWN ongoing supporting casts (which, of course, can be drawn from the existing pool of secondary characters). Is that about right, Daren?

Given that scenario, there should probably also be a sixth title, what amounts to a "team" title, like a new version of ARCHIE'S PALS 'N' GALS or ARCHIE & FRIENDS, just to satisfy that craving for seeing the Gang of Five interacting, traditional-style. In that title, no one is the main star of the story -- it's an ensemble story, with an equal focus on all of them (plus Moose & Midge, Chuck & Nancy, Cheryl, Dilton, and Ethel).

Actually, the more I think on this notion, the more it seems like not only a good idea, but a GREAT idea. It would really generate some fresh situations, and allow each book to focus on ONE star (except for the 'team' book), in effect becoming more unique and distinct, less like an "Archie spinoff" than an individual title, like JOSIE or SABRINA. There's fresh territory there for exploring these characters outside of their relationships with the other main four. The right, and smart, way to do this in order to make these books the basis of an "Archieverse" is not to ignore the other characters entirely, as if they didn't exist -- you throw in small references and asides in the dialogue (maybe a line of dialogue referencing something that happened/is happening in one of the other titles) or small cameo appearances, like Archie talking to Veronica or Jughead on the phone (or texting them) for a panel or three. You do it in a subtle way so that those appearances don't amount to them being an actual character in the story, just a bit of "universe" subtext.

And if successful, you could go on to add a second tier of titles that does just the opposite, say ARCHIE & REGGIE, JUGHEAD & ARCHIE, BETTY & VERONICA, ARCHIE & BETTY, and ARCHIE & VERONICA. Those books could focus on just the relationship between the two co-stars, leaving out the other three characters again. You could again add another one (maybe TALES FROM RIVERDALE?) that would be like a random "team-up" story, focusing on ANY two co-stars (most likely one major character, and one minor character) -- different co-stars in every issue.

So there's a pretty good basic plan for 6 core titles, followed by a second wave of 6 titles. Enough to fill a healthy comic publisher's universe. And of course, from there you could keep expanding with new titles for Cheryl, Kevin, Josie, Sabrina, That Wilkin Boy, etc. Maybe even give one of the secondary characters who's never had a series of his/her own a title.

Quote from: irishmoxie on June 28, 2016, 03:07:02 PM
There's probably some cost to host your product. Same with Comixology. I assume there is some cost because I noticed some digital things expire after while and are no longer listed on the site. The cost may not outweigh the potential benefit.

Of COURSE Amazon isn't doing this out of altruism. They have to make a profit. But the publisher's overhead is low compared to having to contract with a printer for a print run, which would be the case going through direct distribution with Diamond Comics. And of course, you have options as a seller. You can sell digital only, digital + POD (printed and shipped by Amazon), or digital plus print sales (Z-shops) from your existing print stock (shipped by the publisher, not Amazon).

So far I've only read the preview pages online. I have to say I'm a little put off by the limited coloring choice -- to be honest, it seems a little pretentious, like it's trying to make it look less like "classic Archie" and more like "alternative comic".

I think I'll probably wait for the print edition. To tell the truth, I'm still hoping they'll reconsider and go with traditional coloring on the print version.

I'm going to guess that in the story B&V got kidnapped (probably something to do with holding Veronica for ransom, and maybe they weren't sure which was the Lodge girl, or they had to take both girls to keep Betty from identifying them). Veronica's got scissors and is cutting Betty's ropes, so they're about to free themselves.

Okay. Whatever. It was just an idea. Not that it's going to make anyone rich or anything. The alternative paper readership probably is not doing as badly, relatively speaking, as the mainstream newspapers are, because they're filling a gap that the mainstream papers are failing to address. The reason they're free is to increase the circulation, because it's ADVERTISERS who foot the bills for the publishing of those papers, not readers.

Yes, some of the readers of those papers are undoubtedly aware of MA3, but compared to the number of people in the publisher or editor positions at the paper, it might only be a half-dozen people, and they're not necessarily the type of people who are already immersed in comics culture and webcomics.

And I know it was ages ago, relatively speaking, but you know... what I was thinking of there was Groening's LIFE IN HELL, which kind of put him on the map, and somehow from there he got to do The Simpsons. Granted, it's a different world now, but just because you have millions of readers who somehow discover the webcomics, there's a schism there with the world of mainstream (or in this case, alternative to mainstream) culture. You never really know who reads those papers, and what connections that might lead to. Or not.

But on a completely different topic, I can't see MA3 doing much in the direct market, either. Eerie Cuties and Magick Chicks might do better, and could presumably be racked along with the manga. MA3, I think, would be difficult... It doesn't really fit in with mainstream comics (not even the indies), and it doesn't really fit with the Fantagraphics/Drawn & Quarterly-type alternative stuff. It's too "Mature Audiences" for the manga section, and it doesn't really fit in Diamond's Adult catalog either, because (ironically) it's too tame, compared to the usual erotica and hentai stuff they list.  I mean, nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess. You could always submit it to Diamond to see whether they'd be interested. The overhead costs to you for printing might make it more trouble than it's worth, though.

On the other hand, it seems to me you're missing a good bet by not having MA3 (AND the rest of the Pixie Trix titles) on Amazon's CreateSpace Print-On-Demand service. As long as you have an Amazon seller's account, you can sell both digital copies and print. You supply them with the PDFs, they supply the printing/binding machine, and exposure to millions of potential customers. One customer order = one copy printed on demand. That's pretty low overhead cost to the publisher for the ability to connect with potential consumers.

Quote from: Gisele on June 27, 2016, 04:12:38 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 27, 2016, 04:00:31 PM
Wouldn't it just be an additional revenue stream? Something like self-syndication? I'd assume the the readership of these alternative papers or magazines has pretty much zero overlap with the people currently reading the webcomic or buying digital or print compilations. Not to say that some of those alternative paper or magazine readers couldn't then JOIN the existing group of webcomic/compilation readers. I just thought it would be another way of getting exposure to an audience that would like it, but wouldn't have necessarily gone looking for it in the first place, because they may never have heard of it yet.

Sorry, I was talking about comics publishers. We were never approached to be in papers. It would really have to be something super alternative to accept the more risqué content. I don't think we'd say no if we were approached. As for books in the direct market, we'll eventually get in there. More than likely with omnibus editions using a publisher who understands the direct market more than we do.

Oh, no... I wasn't talking about comic shops, I was talking about... I don't know what you'd call it. The underground press? Alternative lifestyle magazines? Like you see in major urban areas, supported by a lot of advertising, priced cheaply, or sometimes given away for free (for the newspapers, anyway... the alternative lifestyle magazines usually have smaller circulations, but cater to a very specific demographic). I mean, all you need to do is look under Classified, and Singles, and you can see that these papers are liberal, tolerant, and broad-minded.

I can't believe you don't have these in the major Canadian cities (especially Montreal and Toronto, places like that). You know, film reviews, political articles, arts stuff, music, college and youth culture. Like the kind of papers that carried Matt Groening's LIFE IN HELL comic strip. Boston has The Boston Phoenix, but that's a lot tamer than it started out. I don't know that it carries comix or not. Not all of them do.

If you're waiting for a phone call, it probably won't happen because they don't know MA3 exists. I guess it would be up to you to scout out potential clients and send them samples, based on looking at the content of the newspaper or magazine, and whether it was a venue where your strip would fit. Even if they don't have a comix section per se, doesn't mean they might not be interested. I'd start by looking at what's being published in Montreal, and work outward from there. I mean, you could send out a dozen samples, or two dozen. Might never hear anything, or just a polite "can't use it at this time" letter. On the other hand, the phone MIGHT ring then, because at least you let them know you exist.

Quote from: Betty Girl on June 27, 2016, 02:59:21 PM

Quote from: JonInIowaCity on May 16, 2016, 03:51:06 PM
That Vampironica series would be interesting.

I'd like to see this come around, as well.

Except that they never said it was a series (or a proposed series). It could have been an idea for AWA or ChAoS. Probably AWA, since it was drawn by Francavilla.

Quote from: Gisele on June 27, 2016, 03:03:32 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 27, 2016, 01:53:21 AM
Maybe it's time for you to reconsider shopping it around to various alternative press newspapers or magazines. According to Wikipedia:
Ménage à 3 is consistently rated in the top 50 webcomics on the internet and is one of the top 25 most read.

Surely those kind of statistics might cause an alternative press editor to give it some serious consideration for inclusion in their comix section? Congratulations are in order in any case -- it seems you really tapped into the current cultural zeitgeist with MA3.

We've had interest from a few publishers to publish Ma3 but we do pretty well self-publishing it, and we get to keep all profits. Maybe we'll go the traditional route for omnibus editions.

Wouldn't it just be an additional revenue stream? Something like self-syndication? I'd assume the the readership of these alternative papers or magazines has pretty much zero overlap with the people currently reading the webcomic or buying digital or print compilations. Not to say that some of those alternative paper or magazine readers couldn't then JOIN the existing group of webcomic/compilation readers. I just thought it would be another way of getting exposure to an audience that would like it, but wouldn't have necessarily gone looking for it in the first place, because they may never have heard of it yet.

Quote from: Archiecomicxfan215 on June 27, 2016, 02:17:11 PM
I enjoyed Harvey too, but the TV show version of him. I agree with BettyReggie he was cute, and I keep watching the finale scene with Harvey and Sabrina on youtube.

I also like the aunts and Zella. I like the stories where they get all worried because Zella is paying a visit

I think you mean DELLA, the Head Witch, right? At first I thought you were talking about Zelda (sometimes called Aunt Zelly in her younger version).