Quote from: Mr.Lodge on March 24, 2017, 03:40:34 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on March 24, 2017, 12:07:35 AM

Of course my main ship is Jughead/Veronica. They would make the WORST couple but it would be entertaining to behold.

How about Jughead/Cheryl Blossom or Jughead/Ginger Lopez? 

I don't know, while Jughead and Cheryl have no love for each other, I don't think Jughead's quirks bother Cheryl as much as they bother Veronica. For people who cannot stand each other, Jughead and Veronica can't leave each other alone; they've always got an opinion on what the other is doing no matter how trivial it is.

And I just don't recall any interaction between Ginger and Jughead, but Ginger has become nicer since she has stopped trying to become a dialed down Cheryl, so I don't see why Jughead would have a problem with her and vice-versa. Then again in AWA he's a zombie and she's a lesbian, so yeah, I don't see that working out.

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on March 24, 2017, 03:40:34 AM

Better yet, Jinx Malloy/Anybody? 

Okay, you've got me there. 

Quote from: Shuester on March 23, 2017, 11:26:53 AM

Honestly, I can go with most of the ships that Archie comics throw at me. But some of the ones I don't like are:


- Archie and Cheryl. It makes sense why Archie would want her, but she won't tolerate him for long. And it is purely physical on Archie's part, so it's pointless.
- Chuck and Nancy with other people. They go well together.
- Little Archie shipping. No ten year olds "date" the way the Little Archie gang does.

I agree re: Little Archie. The book was cute and fun when they were acting like little kids and going on adventures but once it started dealing with romantic hijinks, what was even the point of having Little Archie stories if they were just going to end up like the main title?

Personally, I don't really hate any ships except for something awful like minor/adult. I'm not fond of Archie/Veronica or Reggie/Veronica because I don't find them particularly interesting.

My favorite canon couple is Archie/Valerie, pretty much the only relationship in Archie Comics with any depth.

Semi-canon, I like Reggie/Betty, the shippers on this forum really made me appreciate this pairing. They were fun together when they were scheming to keep Archie and Veronica apart.

Before the reboot I would have wanted to see Veronica paired up with one of the new kids, either Lonnie (Lonnie and Ronnie, how quaint) because he was a rich kid like her but a lot more down to earth, so I think he would have been good for her, or with Danny D'Angelo because I think he would be a good foil for Veronica.

Of course my main ship is Jughead/Veronica. They would make the WORST couple but it would be entertaining to behold.

Quote from: Alexandra Cabot on March 23, 2017, 03:36:01 PM

Quote from: Mr.Lodge on March 23, 2017, 03:07:42 PM

Quote from: Shuester on March 23, 2017, 11:26:53 AM

Little Archie shipping. No ten year olds "date" the way the Little Archie gang does.

Have you been in the South? 

I don't think she means adults dating 10 year olds.   

Reminds me of this:

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on March 04, 2017, 04:54:55 PM

Quote from: Thrillho on March 04, 2017, 12:59:39 PM

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on March 03, 2017, 09:53:15 AM
Where the hell was Cheryl? Betty learns she and Cheryl are gonna have a niece/nephew in common. You'd think we'd get a scene of Betty telling Cheryl immediately.

I didn't even realize Cheryl was missing this episode. 

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on March 04, 2017, 07:01:38 AM

Quote from: VintageJon on March 03, 2017, 09:35:54 AM


It is obvious someone is at least reading the comics...

Well Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is the brains behind the show, even though he isn't writing all the episodes.  He's a TOTAL Archie geek and I'm quite sure he's read every issue of every Archie title ever!  Haha.


That's why there's been so many great easter eggs in this show. 

Though he is a super-fan, the characters are pretty much unrecognizable from their comic book counterparts, except Archie is still a bit of a jerk. That being said, it doesn't upset me. I'm just surprised I like Betty more than Veronica in this show. The Betty actress is hitting it out of the park, I have always found Betty to be boring since her personality makeover from crazy to all-around sweetheart straight-A student, but Lili Reinhart makes her more dimensional. I think the kiss between Betty and Jughead made sense even though it was surprising but I loved Betty's one-track mind and how she immediately focused back on the case.

Veronica is my favorite character but she is such a disappointment, to me, on this show.

That's so ironic because I'm not a Veronica fan in the comics but she's my favorite (tied with Cheryl) character on this show!  OH well, different strokes...

Yup! I was surprised that I would end up liking Betty so much and that I didn't throw anything when Betty and Jughead kissed (huge Jughead/Veronica shipper here) but I liked that too.

Anyway, my disappointment in Veronica is summed up by a carrotz in the "Is it worth watching Riverdale" thread:

Quote from: carrotz on February 27, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
Boasts about its interracial casting, but gives the best parts to Archie, Betty and Jughead, promotes Kevin and Cheryl above Reggie and warps Josie and Chuck. Says it keeps the characters at core the same as the comics, which is only true if you count the fact that they are all still the same species.

Veronica doesn't have an interesting storyline. I'm willing to wait and see but the heavy handedness of the slut-shaming episode doesn't leave me optimistic. It's frustrating to see Riverdale cast these, what should be showcase, roles (e.g. Reggie and Veronica) with actors of color but then keep the intrigue and focus on white B-characters, Polly and Jason.

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on March 03, 2017, 09:53:15 AM
Where the hell was Cheryl? Betty learns she and Cheryl are gonna have a niece/nephew in common. You'd think we'd get a scene of Betty telling Cheryl immediately.

I didn't even realize Cheryl was missing this episode. 

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on March 04, 2017, 07:01:38 AM

Quote from: VintageJon on March 03, 2017, 09:35:54 AM


It is obvious someone is at least reading the comics...

Well Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is the brains behind the show, even though he isn't writing all the episodes.  He's a TOTAL Archie geek and I'm quite sure he's read every issue of every Archie title ever!  Haha.


That's why there's been so many great easter eggs in this show. 

Though he is a super-fan, the characters are pretty much unrecognizable from their comic book counterparts, except Archie is still a bit of a jerk. That being said, it doesn't upset me. I'm just surprised I like Betty more than Veronica in this show. The Betty actress is hitting it out of the park, I have always found Betty to be boring since her personality makeover from crazy to all-around sweetheart straight-A student, but Lili Reinhart makes her more dimensional. I think the kiss between Betty and Jughead made sense even though it was surprising but I loved Betty's one-track mind and how she immediately focused back on the case.

Veronica is my favorite character but she is such a disappointment, to me, on this show.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 08, 2016, 01:45:26 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on July 07, 2016, 12:58:30 PM
Like daren said upthread, Betty was the one entrusted to Jellybean's care, Veronica didn't even know Jellybean would be coming with them and she shouldn't have had that responsibility foisted on her unexpectedly. So yes, if you want to blame anyone for Jellybean not having a minder, blame Betty, she knows Veronica is going to take a nap yet she goes for a swim anyway, even though she is the one who agreed to babysit Jellybean that day. If Betty is the one being paid or even just agreed to babysit without compensation, she is the one who has to follow through with her promise. Now if this was an emergency situation where Betty had to run off, I would fully expect Veronica to step up, but this wasn't it. Furthermore, there's no legos in this story for Jellybean to choke on so there was no risk of that happening.

In hindsight, I can see where Betty made a fundamental error in judgment in choosing to ask her best friend to accompany her and Jellybean to the beach, and imagining that while at the beach she might still do a little swimming. I guess people sometimes do stupid things when they let themselves be influenced by friendship, and it was unreasonable of Betty to presume on that friendship and burden Veronica. Obviously she should have asked Brad. Or Midge, or Nancy, or Ethel, or one of those otherwise unnamed girls who walks through the foreground of the panels in those beach stories who she knows that also attends Riverdale High. Anyone but her best friend.

Babysitting isn't about what the sitter wants to do, it's about taking care of the child. I know because I babysat all through high school and college and I never purposefully ignored my charge for self-indulgent reasons. Betty cannot be upset Veronica didn't want to watch her when she didn't even tell Veronica in advance that Jellybean was joining them. Note that Veronica informs Betty first that she's taking a nap and Betty decides to leave anyway. That's when Betty should think, my swim can wait, or I can come to the beach another day when I don't have to watch Jellybean. Mrs. Jones hired Betty, when you hire someone for something you expect them to follow through not delegate the responsibilities to someone else, so yes if something happened to Jellybean while Veronica was napping and Betty was swimming all the blame would be on Betty. Mrs. Jones didn't hire Veronica to watch Jellybean she hired Betty, she is paying Betty. If Betty wanted Veronica to do her a favor, she would actually need to ask Veronica if she is willing to watch her, and it would be unfair of Betty to expect Veronica to do her work for her and not offer to compensate her, it's not like Veronica is her intern.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2016, 11:13:51 AM
That's one vote for the "choke on the lego block" option. How dare Jellybean interrupt Veronica's nap with such meaningless and annoying behavior? I don't know, most people might say the 16-year old should be more mature than the toddler, but... you never can tell. And of course, who's being paid makes all the difference in who should be mature. Because watching every child on the beach like a hawk isn't worth the money she isn't being paid to do so -- or watching one single child entrusted to her care, which of course, is exactly the same thing. Or we can blame Betty, who should know better than to expect Veronica to be more responsible and mature than a toddler?

I take this to mean that were you walking along in the park, and happened to see a child sitting by herself, obviously choking on something, you'd do absolutely nothing, because it's not your problem. You chose wisely in avoiding having children.

Wow, you're way out of line. I can only imagine what you wrote before you edited. Seriously, my defending Veronica is not a personal attack on you so don't make it a personal issue. You know nothing about me.

Like daren said upthread, Betty was the one entrusted to Jellybean's care, Veronica didn't even know Jellybean would be coming with them and she shouldn't have had that responsibility foisted on her unexpectedly. So yes, if you want to blame anyone for Jellybean not having a minder, blame Betty, she knows Veronica is going to take a nap yet she goes for a swim anyway, even though she is the one who agreed to babysit Jellybean that day. If Betty is the one being paid or even just agreed to babysit without compensation, she is the one who has to follow through with her promise. Now if this was an emergency situation where Betty had to run off, I would fully expect Veronica to step up, but this wasn't it. Furthermore, there's no legos in this story for Jellybean to choke on so there was no risk of that happening.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2016, 03:10:16 AM

Where did I say that they were among the worst examples of Veronica's behavior? I can think of many worse examples. Just because "Nanny Boy" isn't among the worst, doesn't mean that it automatically should be held up as an example of the opposite.

Well you did write blocks of texts condemning Veronica, and alluding to her actions leading to Jellybean's death, so it's not a stretch to infer you think this is the worst she has been.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 07, 2016, 03:10:16 AM

Right. And I didn't start that Worst of Veronica thread, or any other thread devoted to her behaving badly. But somehow when examples are posted of her behaving badly, I'm just supposed to shut up and not comment about it, because there are other stories where she doesn't behave badly. The fact that people overwhelming choose to post those stories where she behaves badly, as opposed to the ones where she doesn't, is hardly my fault. That's about all I have to say about it, except that there's usually a direct correlation between stories where Veronica behaves badly (and no redeeming qualities are shown) and she comes out the loser, and those where she shows the better aspects of her character and comes out the winner -- "Nanny Boy" versus "Beach Blanket Babysitters".

No one said you can't express your opinion but you start these debates when posters are not looking for one and you can't be upset when someone responds or disagrees with you.

Quote from: daren on July 06, 2016, 02:17:28 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on July 06, 2016, 12:51:37 AM

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 06:22:55 AM
I did make a thread for Mr. Lodge here but it was more for his moments of rage, this story is more cold blooded. 

Whoops, my bad. I didn't know there was already a Mr. Lodge thread. 

Anyway, here's another Mr. Lodge panel I like.

Haha, you have good taste! http://www.archiefans.com/all-about-archie/hirambo/

Oops, I did it again. 

I can see how I missed your thread; I wouldn't know what Hirambo is without context but it is a very clever title. 

Quote from: daren on July 06, 2016, 01:47:46 AM
]I think the scene you describe from Game of Thrones is a little different, we don't see this girl saying no, telling Reggie to stop or fighting him off and we don't see what happens after he leaps at her. Dammit Al why couldn't you have been clearer 

Ah, but you see, an absence of a no does not equal consent. That's why activists are trying to drive the point home with affirmative consent, only yes means yes.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 06, 2016, 04:03:51 AMSo you see me heaping scorn on Veronica, when all I'm really doing is criticizing the writing of the story. You're just hypersensitive to anything someone says about Veronica, even though she's often written in such a way as to portray her in the worst possible light.

I don't care that people will dislike/hate Veronica or judge her harshly but these two stories don't even rank as any of Veronica's worst moments, especially not "Beach Blanket Babysitters" where you know, she didn't actually do anything to warrant Jellybean being mean to her.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 06, 2016, 04:03:51 AM
Note that while YOU'VE started threads about Archie being an a-hole or whatever, I've never started a thread about Veronica that encourages people to heap scorn on her.

That's because there already was/is a Worst of Veronica thread, and pretty much a negative thread for every character. Why should Archie be left out of the fun? 

Quote from: daren on July 03, 2016, 05:09:59 AM


[/size]

QuoteHe also wrote the Spire Christian Comics were Reggie date raped a girl. That made me think he might not like them much.

Okay I think I found the site that might have given you that idea. http://80pagegiant.blogspot.com/2011/09/archie-metaphors-sex-and-al-hartley.html Are those the panels?


I also found the page they come from.






In context it doesn't look like date rape. The Jughead oranges story is more like a metaphor for a guy who tells girls he loves them to get them to sleep with him, it doesn't work as analogy for rape. Besides it would make more sense for this sermon to tell girls "don't put out just because a guy says he loves you" (standard Christian warning) than to say "don't get date raped," there's no way a girl can avoid that unless she doesn't go on dates or doesn't kiss boys in cars, the other story on that site shows Al wasn't against girls going on dates and kissing boys in cars. It DOES look skeevy that Reggie's jumping on her with a sneering smile but he always drew Reggie sneering and always put characters in that pose when they're going after something they want, it probably symbolizes Reggie's a predator in the emotional not physical sense.


I just found another site where this story is discussed: http://www.toonzone.net/forums/threads/archie-goes-there-talkback.5224681/


and someone else says the same thing I'm saying, he also points out the lipstick marks on Reggie's face and the girl's appearance are probably meant to show it wasn't rape, a good point. (Then another guy says date rape victims don't always look raped and that kiss marks are just comics shorthand for sexual activity of any kind, well actually, they're just shorthand for CONSENSUAL making out, what comics would use them to convey rape? I mean you might see them in real life date rape and yeah, real victims don't always look victimized but in cartoons they do, the cartoonists tend to make sure we know what happened. Al Hartley's drawn rape victims in other stories and they did not just look bewildered with messy hair like this girl. Then this guy tries to claim Al mixed his metaphors (why?) and was "too stuck in the 50s to understand that date rape was what he was portraying", er, if he didn't understand he was portraying it then it's probably not what he was portraying. At this point I just can't take him seriously, for some reason he's hellbent on seeing the worst in Al no matter how weak his arguments are, same for the site that took those two panels out of context. I guess they're venting in revenge for all the Spire comics or something.  )


I think the most important point the other guy makes is that Al Hartley wasn't the kind of guy who would show Reggie raping someone (if ACP even would have let him, unlikely). Frank Doyle is the one who came closest to writing Reggie as an in-context date rapist, Al's portrayals of him weren't that bad.

Yeah, that was the story I am referring to, and I know Al Hartley probably didn't intend to make Reggie a rapist but that's definitely what it looks like, and at the very least it looks like sexual assault as the girl never looks willing. I don't want to get too into here but I agree with that poster you're talking about even if Al Hartley didn't intend to portray sexual assault, that's exactly what he did. It's just like the Game of Thrones controversy where the audience interpreted a scene as rape though the creators denied it but honestly where is the ambivalence if the woman in question is constantly saying no, trying to fight him off, and then crying for him to stop? The girl in question looks terrified that Reggie is coming at her and the other panel we see her in she is upset.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 04, 2016, 03:41:39 AM

In "Beach Blanket Babysitters" Veronica's behavior is different. It starts out with her behaving towards Jellybean much as she does in the earlier story. She just wants to nap on the beach, and leave Jellybean to play by herself, as long as Jellybean is quiet and doesn't disturb her nap. Once again in that story, she's just not even paying attention to Jellybean. Jellybean could be choking on a lego block, as long as she did so quietly.

How dare she do her own thing as opposed to watching the child her friend (who left to go swimming) is being paid to babysit. What the hell is wrong with her? Instead of enjoying herself at the beach she should clearly be watching any and every child at the beach like a hawk. How heartless can she be?

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 06:22:55 AM
I did make a thread for Mr. Lodge here but it was more for his moments of rage, this story is more cold blooded. 

Whoops, my bad. I didn't know there was already a Mr. Lodge thread. 

Anyway, here's another Mr. Lodge panel I like.

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 05:41:53 AM

But I don't agree that Betty's ethical violations are usually treated more harshly than Veronica's, if anything it's the other way around especially in Dan Parent's stories, maybe because he likes Veronica more he holds her to a higher standard or something, I also don't see anything wrong with Veronica's goldfish remark and it's the EXACT kind of thing Jughead would say so I think Mrs. Jones would just laugh if she heard it. Besides Jughead's pulled so many uncalled for stunts on Veronica that Veronica has obviously never told her own parents about, I think he must appreciate that in a reciprocal way.

I agree that in modern stories, Betty doing something underhanded isn't really addressed, but if someone can find me an example, I'll shut my mouth. Likewise with Jughead, he sets people up for self-indulgent reasons, and I know as a reader, we are supposed to cheer for him and find him clever. I remember one story where Veronica tells Jughead she will either invite Jughead or Reggie to her party, so Jughead sets up Reggie to get beat up by Moose immediately as Reggie enters the story.

Quote from: daren on July 01, 2016, 05:57:31 AM

Quote from: Thrillho on June 30, 2016, 12:35:29 PM

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 04:33:15 AM

Yeah, and even stranger that Al Hartley wrote it. I think that MUST be miscredited, I can't believe he would put that in there!

I wondered if it was him; it looked like his art. I'm not that surprised that he would give Veronica the bird. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he usually go out of his way to portray Reggie and Veronica negatively or find a way to punish them?

Al Hartley? Not from what I've seen, of course most writers of that era portrayed Reggie and Veronica very negatively but Al Hartley wasn't extra bad, the main writers George Gladir and Frank Doyle were much worse than him about it. Frank Doyle most of all, Al Hartley never portrayed Reggie as a racist or borderline sexual predator and Frank Doyle is the one who made Veronica an evil villain in the '60s. And George Gladir made them do some real crap, I just read a story where he had Reggie trying to spear a dolphin, lmao, because he wanted to catch something fishing. Actually some of their dirty rotten evil stories were funny and I'm glad Fank Doyle made Veronica a bad girl just because I like villains even if he took it too far, but yeah, Al Hartley was tame by comparison, I think only Joe Edwards and maybe Bob Bolling wrote them more mildly than him out of that era of writers.

I just remember Al Hartley wrote a story where Veronica and Reggie were evil Germans and Betty, Archie, and Jughead were the good Americans in a WWI story. He also wrote the Spire Christian Comics were Reggie date raped a girl. That made me think he might not like them much.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 07:38:08 AM
The effect of her goldfish remark is to indicate she couldn't be bothered to attend to the more complicated needs of a tiny human.

Her goldfish remark was in response to Betty, "I can't wait to be a mother one day!" She can wait on being a mother, that's all that statement meant. Not wanting children at 16-18 is not a character flaw.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
I wonder what would have happened if Jughead had used his Time Police Beanie to go back to that moment in the park where Betty and Veronica were talking, and used a camcorder to record Veronica's comment about "I'll stick to goldfish! They're less work!" and showed it to Mrs. Jones? I'm pretty sure Mrs. Jones would have gone ballistic on Veronica if she could have seen THAT.

OH MY GOD. THAT B**CH!!

I doubt Mrs. Jones would have batted an eye at that. Veronica acknowledging at 16-18 she's not ready to be a mother and better suited to caring for goldfish is actually reasonable and I find it strange you thought that statement was alarming.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
What was the proper ethical course of action for Jughead to take when he learned of the situation?

Uh, let Veronica bring Jellybean home like she and Mrs. Jones agreed upon? Furthermore, Betty just assumes that Veronica has male company and she and Jughead set her up with no proof. How can he go to Mrs. Jones before the fact when there is no evidence she's keeping company with someone else?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AMThe REAL crime here is that Veronica has deceived Mrs. Jones into believing that she's leaving her daughter with a responsible and loving caregiver.

She did, it just wasn't her.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on July 01, 2016, 01:26:25 AM
How would YOU feel if it were your child?

Don't have any. Don't want any. I'll stick to goldfish myself. If you're a parent, can you weigh in?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 30, 2016, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: Thrillho on June 30, 2016, 12:35:29 PM
I do wonder what happens when Nanny Boy finds out the truth, that Betty set up Veronica to look like a kidnapper to get a date with him.

I don't know about that. Looks to me, if I read it right, that's all on Jughead. A bit over the top on the overacting there. Did something happen in between that panel where Betty says "We should get Jellybean back. It's late" and when Veronica phoned Mrs. Jones to "borrow" Jellybean? How did Betty set her up to do that? Were mirrors involved? Why would Betty call Mrs. Jones and ask to take Jellybean if she knew Veronica had her? Other than that, it seems like Betty didn't actually DO anything. The fact that she benefits from Jughead's "rescue" of the "kidnapped" Jellybean is immaterial. She doesn't have some kind of mind-control powers to make people do what she wants them to. Nope, it's all Jughead from what I see there. Betty may have alerted him to the fact that Veronica had Jellybean, but then again it might have been Mrs. Jones who told him (he does live there) -- hard to say, the story doesn't tell us that. Appears to me that the real winner here is Jughead. I do kind of wonder how he explained to his mother why he was bringing Jellybean home instead of Veronica. It's a mystery, I guess.

I'll concede Betty probably didn't come up with the kidnapping angle but once she found out Veronica was pulling the same scheme she wanted to, she conspired with Jughead to make Veronica look bad and get the nanny for herself. Why else would she be hanging around the Lodge mansion and thanking Jughead, saying she owes him? This story was also featured in a Betty vs. Veronica digital collection signifying that this is a Betty/Veronica conflict, not Jughead/Veronica.

We had an old thread celebrating Mr. Lodge on the old forum and we clearly need a new one.








Happy Shark Week!

Archie has enough shark stories to fill a digital collection. 

Quote from: daren on June 30, 2016, 03:27:01 AM
In honor of Shark Week

Pretty much why I can't get behind Jughead/Ethel.