Quote from: Jabroniville on November 30, 2022, 12:43:06 AMeah I remember the "Married Life" stories re-treating old ground and fixing some stuff up- Jughead & Midge were seen slowly falling in love instead of going all "LOL surprise, best friend! I'm married!". I had forgotten they had retconned out that bit of Archie being in the dark. Thanks!

That was pretty bold of Midge proposing to Jughead and him accepting!!! I think all along she wanted a real marriage with him. She is apparently someone who goes after what and who she wants.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on December 15, 2022, 12:05:12 PMAs far as I'm concerned, every single time (and boy, were there lots of them) that Mr. Lodge and/or Smithers gave Archie the old heave-ho out the front door of the Lodge mansion, he was perfectly justified. Good for him!

Yeah, this reminds me of SNL's "Mr Bill Show". You know that Mr Bill is going to get destroyed every episode just like Archie is going to make a fool of himself at the Lodge Mansion and get thrown out. But it's still funny.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on December 09, 2022, 09:17:34 AMI only started reading LIFE WITH ARCHIE with the last two comic book sized issues (#36 and 37) in 2014. Not that I hadn't been casually reading some ARCHIE and BETTY & VERONICA issues before that, along with SABRINA (the pre-manga version).

But "The Death of Archie" touched off a frenzy in me to start hoarding everything Archie. I looked back over the past five or six years of ACP's publishing history and suddenly realized the company had been steadily cancelling one long-running title after another, and thought to myself... "OMG! It's really happening! The Death of Archie isn't just some 'what if' story, it's a metaphor for what's actually happening to this long-running line of classic comic books." That's when I realized that the Archie characters had become an endangered species.

Thus began a mad scramble for me to find every recent back issue comic book from "Archie Marries..." (ARCHIE #600, Oct. 2009) onwards, and all the ACP trade paperback collections then in print.

A little less than a year later they published ARCHIE #666, the last issue of the classic ongoing series that had been running since 1943... then five months later, the last issue of the long-running BETTY & VERONICA, #278.

After that I was forced to rely on the digests (and trade paperback collections) for my Archie stories, plus the occasional one-shot floppy comic book. Occasionally I'd find old stacks of back issues but (apart from JOSIE and SABRINA) I was really only interested in the more recent ones (since the late 1980s re-numbering). I wasn't having any of that "New ARCHIE" nonsense.

So when I did finally get around to reading the full story from LIFE WITH ARCHIE, it was in the form of the six-volume ARCHIE: THE MARRIED LIFE trade paperbacks. Even in that form it was confusing to try to remember everything that was going on, as the chapters alternated back and forth between "Archie Marries Betty" and "Archie Marries Veronica". A few years ago I read it all again, but the second time around I went through all six books, first reading just the "Archie Marries Betty" chapters, and then all the "Archie Marries Veronica" chapters. It was somewhat easier to keep things straight in my mind the second time.

I believe most readers of these stories felt the same way, that it was less confusing reading each storyline"one at a time" rather than alternately. But there were some very similar storylines in both universes that had very small changes that caused those stories to have different outcomes. And these were more obvious in the early issues. Mr. Lodge was trying to buy the Chock'lit Shop in both, but for slightly different reasons, In AMV, he was intent on making Riverdale a metropolis, using Archie and Veronica to force Pop to sell. But in AMB, it was more about Mr. Lodge trying to ruin Archie and his friends for rejecting his bribe to leave Betty and marry Veronica.
      Another storyline that was very similar was Midge finding the stimulus loan application to help Jughead buy the Chock'lit Shop in both universes. But only in AMB is there a line in the application about the SBA favoring married applicants, which prompted Midge to propose to Jughead. I know there are more similar storylines such as Moe Miller meeting Jughead and after eating his burgers decides to make Jug a franchise mogul.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on November 30, 2022, 04:29:36 PM

Quote from: beatman10 on November 28, 2022, 09:59:13 PMFrom what I've read, most readers didn't like seeing Mr. Lodge as a villain.

It's a violation of Mr. Lodge's basic character. Sure, there are plenty of stories where he doesn't like Archie and tries to thwart him. And there are stories where sometimes there is an adversarial relationship between Lodge and "the gang" in general because of a generation gap thing -- but in pretty much ALL of those stories, Mr. Lodge comes around in the end. In most classic Archie stories, Mr. Lodge is not an bad man at all... he's shown to be a good man, despite the fact that he's rich. There are many instances where the gang points out an issue which Lodge helps resolve through his philanthropy.

What I remember mostly about Mr. Lodge and Archie's relationship in the comics was, whenever Archie was at the Lodge mansion, he would end up breaking all of the Lodge's prized possessions, accidentally, of course. Mr. Lodge would get so frustrated with him and end up throwing him out, usually with Smithers' help. And I remember one story, even Ronnie helped to throw him out. Another thing I remember about Mr. Lodge was that he was always protective of Veronica and made sure Archie minded his manners when he was with her, just like any good father would be.
I can maybe understand Mr. Lodge being antagonistic toward Archie more so in the "Betty" timeline since Archie married Betty and sent Veronica into a depression. That whole "You hurt my little girl but you can make her happy again by leaving Betty" was wrong and Veronica would never accept Archie being paid to marry her.

The only part I found confusing was early on Reggie and Veronica were seen together extensively in both universes. Of course, for different reasons. In AMV, Reggie was simply trying to console Veronica after she and Archie had one of their many fights over her Daddy's business dealings.They did catch themselves before they could have taken things further. In AMB, they did start dating, although both were going through a period of feeling like their lives didn't turn out the way they thought they would.
 Sometimes I forget these great stories and artwork have been created by real people who, like all employees, are at the mercy of the corporation, who at a moments notice, can fire anyone for any reason, aka " cutting costs. moving in a different direction, get someone cheaper, etc". I don't know if these were the reasons why some of you talented artists were let go, but it's sad to hear.

In the "Veronica" story, Mr. Lodge tries to frame Reggie for bribery and extortion. And then he lies to Veronica about Archie demanding a million dollar dowry before he would marry her. Mr. Lodge felt as long as Veronica was married to Archie, she would lack the killer instinct needed to take over Lodge industries.Mr. Lodge's meddling nearly ended their marriage. It didn't help that Veronica believed her "Daddy" over Archie. So yeah, Mr. Lodge was antagonistic to both Archie and Reggie.
    In the "Betty" story , Mr. Lodge vowed to ruin Archie and anyone else associated with him for turning down his bribe to leave Betty and marry Veronica. It nearly worked until Veronica found out about it and got her father to leave her friends alone.  From what I've read, most readers didn't like seeing Mr. Lodge as a villain.
    I believe the storyline where Jughead marries Midge and Archie didn't know about it until after the fact was in the original "Archie Wedding" series. This was Mr. Uslan bringing out the "SURPRISE"!!! I kind of knew something would happen to Jughead because he said earlier in the story 'No girl trapped me!" Archie and Betty did go to Jughead's wedding in LWA issue #5 and are kind of shocked  to see that Jug "finally noticed a girl".
    If you go in with the mindset that the "10th Anniversary" is only a mini series and isn't trying to compete with the 4 year, 37 issue "Life With Archie"  you may feel more positive about it. This really only focuses on what is going on with Archie's marriage(s) at the 10 year mark. There are some real issues discussed here that happen at that point in a marriage. And there are some surprises. Plue Archie doesn't die!!!!

I check out this series every now and then to see how this story is progressing. It's very slow moving and I have no clue where the storyline is heading to. Moose and Ethel are a couple right now but, I don't get a feeling they will last. It seems like most of the girls want to hook up with this Seth guy. The artwork is great but I don't understand why characters are drawn like munchkins whenever they get excited or emotional.

Maybe you could make a case that Jughead only hired Wendell the busboy/shooter in the AMV timeline but I did see Wendell in AMB lurking in the shadows in one panel.And it wouldn't be the first time an event was shown happening in only one timeline but later on, happened in the other also with no explanation. Take Sam the dog for example. Ilana is shown giving Sam to Moose only in the "Betty" timeline to help with his anger management. But I later saw Sam with Moose in the "Veronica" timeline as well. No explanation on how he got the dog. Also, the AMB Jughead was going to be down two helpers. He was going to lose Jellybean when she leaves for college. And wife Midge would be out on maternity leave taking care of their son. So Jughead had to hire someone soon.
   The only other clue pointing to the Veronica side was in #37 was when Mr. Lodge was seen with a beard. He grew a beard in the last issues of the AMV timeline.

Quote from: beatman10 on September 08, 2022, 02:16:07 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 07, 2018, 01:41:17 AM

Quote from: SAGG on April 06, 2018, 11:30:32 PMI'm speeding it up a bit to the end, obviously with Archie's death as the main plotline. I noticed that the writers shrewdly "merged" both universes because I couldn't tell which one was which. Maybe it didn't matter, which was the point.

Well, obviously the two universes couldn't actually be merged, because then you wind up with the Schrödinger's Cat-like probability paradox of a universe where Archie is married to both Betty and Veronica... but I do take your meaning, as the "Death of Archie" final story arc of LWA was being intentionally vague in details to the point where it could have been taking place in either, or both, the Bettyverse and the Veronicaverse. Oddly enough I remember 'way back on the old (pre-server crash) forum where someone else (I've forgotten who, now) argued that there were definite clues placing the DoA story in (I think it was) the Bettyverse, and I don't remember what those clues were or if I even recognized them.

In general, as the series neared its end and it became obvious that it would be necessary to wrap up the long, convoluted plot of many details and characters, there seemed to be lots of bits either summarily explained away rather casually, or forgotten altogether and left dangling. Things had gotten very science-fictional about three-quarters of the way through the run, and then they gradually moved away from that to end it all with Archie's death.

To me, the way how the other characters' story outcomes were left dangling was pretty sad.  We never find out if Reggie gets engaged or married. Do Moose/Ilana, Ethel/Dilton or Mr. Weatherbee and Louise get hitched. And how are Jughead/Ethel  doing after a year of marriage, or Jughead/Midge seeing their son take his first steps? I felt Miss Grundy's death actually had a bigger positive impact on Archie and the gang than Archie's death because of the the story ended. I don't blame Paul Kupperberg. He wanted to keep the story going at least to give a more complete ending.

I recently revisited the "Death Of Archie" storyline (Issues 36 and 37) because I wanted to check to see if there were clues to which universe the ending took place in. And, yes, the clues point to the "Betty" timeline. Some of the things I saw were:
1. After Archie thanks Mr.Weatherbee  earlier that day, he says "Hi" to Cheryl Blossom, who was wearing the head scarf that she wore during her chemo treatments. Cheryl only got breast cancer in AMB
2. At the afterparty ,one panel has Mr. Weatherbee sitting at a table with his fiance', Louise. Their pairing only happened in AMB. Miss Grundy was alive throughout the "Veronica" timeline although her relationship with Weatherbee was never clearly defined there. The faculty was reduced to cameo appearances in AMV.
3. Jellybean!! Jellybean only worked at the Chock'lit Shoppe in the "Betty" timeline to relieve Midge. In AMV, she made only one cameo as a bridesmaid at Jughead's wedding. Here, in DOA, she's dressed as if she had been working, probably helping brother Jughead prep for the party. After that, she was seen taking pictures of the partygoers.
I remember seeing a previous post stating Archie was wearing a wedding band while Betty and Veronica weren't. That was because Reggie never married "the girl Archie didn't marry". However, Jughead was also wearing a wedding band and it was more obvious who his wife was. I saw a couple of panels where Ethel and Dilton had their arms around each other (They were dating in AMB). And the end when Archie dies, Ethel is standing next to Dilton, But Midge and Jellybean and embracing each other which makes them more likely to be sisters-in-law. I doubt if the "Veronica" Midge would even be at this event, since she had moved away from Riverdale.
There are two people who didn't attend; Jughead's parents. That could be because they were home babysitting their new grandson for a few hours.
These were just some of the clues I found. I'm sure there are more.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 07, 2018, 01:41:17 AM

Quote from: SAGG on April 06, 2018, 11:30:32 PMI'm speeding it up a bit to the end, obviously with Archie's death as the main plotline. I noticed that the writers shrewdly "merged" both universes because I couldn't tell which one was which. Maybe it didn't matter, which was the point.

Well, obviously the two universes couldn't actually be merged, because then you wind up with the Schrödinger's Cat-like probability paradox of a universe where Archie is married to both Betty and Veronica... but I do take your meaning, as the "Death of Archie" final story arc of LWA was being intentionally vague in details to the point where it could have been taking place in either, or both, the Bettyverse and the Veronicaverse. Oddly enough I remember 'way back on the old (pre-server crash) forum where someone else (I've forgotten who, now) argued that there were definite clues placing the DoA story in (I think it was) the Bettyverse, and I don't remember what those clues were or if I even recognized them.

In general, as the series neared its end and it became obvious that it would be necessary to wrap up the long, convoluted plot of many details and characters, there seemed to be lots of bits either summarily explained away rather casually, or forgotten altogether and left dangling. Things had gotten very science-fictional about three-quarters of the way through the run, and then they gradually moved away from that to end it all with Archie's death.

To me, the way how the other characters' story outcomes were left dangling was pretty sad.  We never find out if Reggie gets engaged or married. Do Moose/Ilana, Ethel/Dilton or Mr. Weatherbee and Louise get hitched. And how are Jughead/Ethel  doing after a year of marriage, or Jughead/Midge seeing their son take his first steps? I felt Miss Grundy's death actually had a bigger positive impact on Archie and the gang than Archie's death because of the the story ended. I don't blame Paul Kupperberg. He wanted to keep the story going at least to give a more complete ending.

Yes, but there are those few times where Jughead doesn't react to her the way she thinks he will and that throws her off a bit. I had mentioned earlier that it would be interesting to see how Jughead and Trula would interact with each other as adults. And I found a story! After a long absence, I decided to check "Big Ethel Energy" to see if and how the story has progressed since it's been going for almost a year. To my surprise, one of the most recent installments has Ethel interviewing Trula. And, of course, their main topic was Jughead. Apparently, Jughead fell in love with Trula. but she didn't feel the same way and that may be the reason why in this story, Jughead shuts everyone out. It seems like in BEE, Riverdale has become a romantic dystopia  where everyone is with no one and any pairings have fizzled out before Ethel came back. The only romance that may happen is between Ethel and Moose. 

I'm happy to see Trula making a comeback with some new stories, including one where she is playing drums! I don't know why the character was shelved for so long. I prefer Trula over Ethel as a potential love interest for Jughead. She is more fun and, let's face it, better looking than Ethel. And despite all her "trickery", if a guy (Jughead) was to fall in love with her, she wants it to be "the old fashioned way" as she has mentioned. I read an earlier post from DeCarlo Rules stating "If Jughead was to ever get married, it would be to Trula". It would have been interesting to see these two interact as adults in "The Married Life". And I think their pairing would have worked on the Veronica side, provided Jughead went into a different profession than owning the Chock'lit Shop. I think Jughead has some power over Trula if he really wanted to use it. That is, simply by ignoring her. Maybe Archie Comics could do a story on that and how Trula's reaction would be.

When Moose's character was introduced around 1948(?), his girlfriend was a petite shorthaired blonde names Lottie Little. And Moose treated her like he treats his current girlfriend, Midge, like a possession. If you're a guy, don't you dare look at or speak to Lottie, or you will incur Moose's wrath!! But it seemed like Lottie just vanished after a few years and replaced. My question is, Was there any Lottie "send off story" where she moves away, breaks up with Moose, etc? Or are her and Midge really the same girl?

Quote from: PTF on July 11, 2022, 10:48:56 PMWell, maybe Archie listens to at least one reader. I like Trula Twyst and I like Bingo Wilkin. So, um...let's try bringing back Regina Mantle!

And yeah,  I like Trula better than Ethel. But I do like the old time Ethel stories and I like the character. I mean, she has the misfortune of not being pretty and living in a town where everyone is at least a nine or ten. Plus she decided to fall in love with the only guy in town who doesn't care about romance and is pretty much the Bugs Bunny of the Archieverse. And I really like how she always took everything in stride. It's pretty admirable to keep going when the entire universe seems out to get you.

And that's one thing I don't like about today's world. It's kind of hard to do those Ethel stories now, given the social climate. And I understand why. But for Ethel you really are losing alot of what made the character fun and memorable. The most I can think of now is "Well, maybe later on she's successful and gets revenge." And I don't like that that's my idea because I watched a Netflix show like that and I did not like it. Had the actress who played Disney's Jessie as the star.

And corporate, yeah. Like we have Jake Chang in a few digest stories and he's going to be getting his own show on the CW. I'm kind of surprised that he doesn't get his own ongoing. It just looks like Archie Comics is banking on their tv shows, which does make sense. And it's always been like that. Cartoon doesn't sell toys or merch, it's gone; comic doesn't get some sort of tv or movie deal...unless it's selling well, goodbye.

The only thing I can question is why, in a world where super hero movies rule, that we haven't seen any of the Archie heroes like The Shield get some sort of movie or tv. That seems like an lay up shot to me.

And I guess characters getting new stories could be AC way of seeing "maybe this character can be used more or be in a show" Just to see if anything sticks. I don't know if that's the case with Trula. Honestly, I thought, given Riverdale, she would make a great villain but instead--she was a pussycat and a totally different character.

But again that's the world we live in. You have old properties being brought back or you have companies just making new shows or toons where only the likeness is the same and everything is--it's making new characters, but giving them old character skins. Still so upset about Jellystone.

You can't have a character like the old Ethel anymore in this political climate. There would be some group trying to get her banned as a sex offender because of her unwanted advances on Jughead. Remember they tried cancelling Pepe Le Pew. Yeah, she acted like an kindergartener trying to kiss a boy which I thought was made for laughs. And Jughead usually got away from her in most stories. And I do feel that the characters have to grow. Ethel, over the years, became more attractive, hair is longer, she is given curves and is less obsessed with Jughead. But, I hope that her progression was simply made to help grow the character who, before, was mostly a one trick pony. 

Since this is the "Jughead The Lover" topic, I'm a little surprised I haven't seen more talk about one of the most recent and popular Jughead pairings which was featured on the Riverdale show: BUGHEAD. (Betty and Jughead). I admit that I have never seen the show, but I did read their romance was a big hit with many fans. Supposedly, some fans also expressed they would like to see these two become a couple in the comics also. The reason? Archie takes Betty for granted and that's something Jughead would never do. Betty would finally have a guy who appreciates her. Jughead has even confronted Archie about the shabby way he treats Betty. I did read something where Archie comics have said that a Jughead/Betty pairing could destroy the 80 year old ABV love triangle and that's why they keep these two as close friends even though there is some romantic tension between them.
      My feelings about these two becoming an item? They look great together, but it would end badly. All that has to happen is Archie having a breakup with Veronica and he'll go back to Betty and tell he that he loves her. Betty's heart will melt and she'll end up giving Jughead the "I'm sorry, Juggie, but my heart belongs to Archie." It's never a good idea to date the best friend of someone you love. It never ends well. And Jughead will go back to hating girls again!