Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 11, 2018, 01:26:38 AM

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on May 10, 2018, 05:23:58 PM

the 1962 and 1964 pilots

There were TWO 1960s pilots? I've only seen one (I think that's the 1964 one). I know there was more than one attempt made to adapt Archie to TV in the early sixties, but I'm not sure if any of the other ones actually made it to the point of having completed a finished pilot film.

Yes. Frank Bank starred in the 1962 pilot (which, as far as I know, has never seen the light of day, although TheDownloader on this forum claims to have it). He talked about it in an interview on one of the Leave It to Beaver DVD sets. I haven't seen the interview, but I've read about it. He gave a cast list. Only Cheryl Holdridge (Betty) was in both pilots. According to IMDb (which got the cast for the 1962 pilot wrong, so take it with a grain of salt), network execs passed on the 1962 pilot, because they thought audiences would still see Frank as Lumpy.

So I've been keeping track, recently, of how Riverdale stacks up against other Archie continuities (specifically, adaptations in non-comic media). I equate one minute of running time with one page of prose and also with one comic page, even though the amount of content in a comic page is probably significantly less than what can be conveyed in one page of a novel or one minute of a show.

I've found, as of last night's episode (and including all Riverdale comic issues), Riverdale has surpassed, individually:

the 1962 and 1964 pilots
the 1976 and 1978 pilots
Josie and the Pussycats (HB cartoons)
The New Archies (episodes + comics)
Archie: To Riverdale and Back Again
Riverdale High (novels, although this one's kinda debatable)
Sabrina the Teenage Witch (1996 Showtime movie)
Archie's Weird Mysteries (all episodes, all comic issues (including Archie's Mysteries), and the Jugman movie)
Josie and the Pussycats (2001 film)
Kevin (novel)
xoxo, Betty and Veronica (novels)
Betty: Diary of a Girl Next Door (novel)
Sabrina: Secrets of a Teenage Witch
New Riverdale (all issues of every series, although it might briefly regain the lead during the summer)

I'm not sure how long that the old-time radio show ran, but most episodes seem to no longer exist, so should that be counted as another win?

The loose continuity of Sabrina: The Animated Series, Sabrina in Friends Forever, and Sabrina's Secret Life will be equaled by episode 12 of season 3 of Riverdale and surpassed by episode 13. It will take longer if you factor in the issues of the corresponding Sabrina comic series.

The Filmation series is confusing. A lot of episodes seem to consist of recycled stories. There was even an iteration that consisted of nothing but repeats. Also, the majority of Archie's T.V. Funnies can be removed from competition, since it's mostly non-Archie content. So I'm not sure exactly how much content is in this "continuity", but it seems to be the next milestone for Riverdale to surpass after all of the DiC Sabrina stuff.

Obviously, the live-action Sabrina the Teenage Witch series is the most successful Archie Comics adaptation ever. Riverdale would have to last until episode 7 of season 5 in order to surpass it, and that's only if you don't count the plethora of tie-in novels.

This week, I review "The New Archies" segment, "Incredible Shrinking Archie".

Quote from: Tytalus on May 01, 2018, 11:55:55 PM

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on May 01, 2018, 11:52:46 PM

Quote from: Tytalus on May 01, 2018, 09:46:44 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Is there a link to the sources? I'm curious how this was derived. I'm also curious about the competing plausible theories for different dates.

I don't know where I got it from. It's currently in a text file on my hard drive. I'm guessing I got them off the official Archie Comics site back then. They'd changed it a lot over the years, so it's possible that these birthdays were listed in individual character profiles or even on a page that no longer exists.

Well fair enough, thanks again for sharing!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that these birthdays came from character profiles on the official Archie site. I just looked at an old file on my hard drive, and I'd noted this:

This information comes from the official Archie Comics website as of Friday, May 26, 2006:

Name: Betty Cooper
First Appearance: Pep Comics #22 (1941)
Age: 17
Height: 5'6
Weight: 120
Hair: Blonde
Birthday: June 29 (Cancer)

Quote from: Tytalus on May 01, 2018, 09:46:44 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Is there a link to the sources? I'm curious how this was derived. I'm also curious about the competing plausible theories for different dates.

I don't know where I got it from. It's currently in a text file on my hard drive. I'm guessing I got them off the official Archie Comics site back then. They'd changed it a lot over the years, so it's possible that these birthdays were listed in individual character profiles or even on a page that no longer exists.

The Sabrina Wikia goes into detail in trying to determine her birthday (four different dates are listed!), and it concludes it's on September 2 based on the start of the school year in that area in 1996. (The Sabrina live-action series is horribly inconsistent in general, such as having Sabrina being unfamiliar with Salem, MA, in season 1 but later establishing it as her home town.)

I got this list from somewhere back in early 2010 (it's listed as the date followed by the character):

February 7

Jughead

March 19

Veronica

March 30

Geraldine Grundy

April 5

Waldo Weatherbee

April 7

Benjamin Flutesnoot

April 27

Hiram Lodge

May 3

Nancy

May 8

Hermione Lodge

June 8

Chuck

June 10

Fred Andrews

June 21

Mr. Svenson

June 29

Betty

July 4

Midge

July 20

Moose

July 25

Reggie

August 18

Terry "Pop" Tate

September 1

Ms. Beazly

September 21

Dilton

December 3

Mary Andrews

December 7

Archie

An all-reprint floppy title? Are you kidding me?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 30, 2018, 02:39:13 PM
3.  "Extra Disastrous" (from B&V Friends Jumbo Comics Digest #260, May 2018)
4.  "An Un-Living Doll" (from Betty and Veronica Jumbo Comics Digest #262, June 2018)

I've read both of these. I even reviewed the former on my blog recently and considered reviewing the latter before deciding "Nah, way too stupid."

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 30, 2018, 02:39:13 PM
*Yeah, and I'm STILL waiting for parts 8, 9 and 10 of "The Many Loves of Archie Andrews" -- and something resembling a conclusion to that series of a couple of years back. Could they have reprinted THAT? No, of course not.

I remember that. I even reviewed the Cheryl story on my blog. That wasn't even a series, though; it was a bunch of independent stories marketed under a banner.

A bit late, but this week I review "Spring Blossom!" from Cheryl Blossom #13 (1998).

A bit late, but this week I review a classic 1980s Cheryl story, "Fast and Loose".

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 13, 2018, 01:08:49 AM
I forgot which timeline it was, but at the beginning didn't one of the Cheryls run off to Hollywood to be discovered as an actress, but then she winds up waitressing when she didn't make it (eventually returning to Riverdale humbled)? And why's Jason slaving away working for Lodge in some middle-management position in the Veronicaverse, if his dad is still a billionaire?

I don't remember Jason working for Mr. Lodge, but that does sound kind of familiar. All that I remember is, in the Bettyverse, when Cheryl returns home, she's living in a mansion. I might have to go back and flip through those issues.

In the Veronicaverse, Cheryl did indeed go off to Hollwood and ended up waiting tables. Same in the Bettyverse (albeit mentioned in retrospect instead of shown). The difference is, in the Bettyverse, Cheryl returns home due to her life being derailed by breast cancer, whereas, in the Veronicaverse, she comes home only when she's invited to Jughead and Ethel's wedding, and she's happy to pose for glam shots for Raj as he's recording her with his camera.

The family became wealthy again in late 2008 / early 2009. Cheryl's breast cancer storyline didn't begin until 2012. (I know LWA continuity doesn't completely line up with regular Archieverse continuity.) There's no indication in LWA that they're poor. In fact, when Cheryl returns home, she's living in a mansion. It's simply unspoken regarding how her initial treatment was paid for and who knew what when. All that's certain is Jason didn't know anything until after she'd had the mastectomy and lost her hair, by which point she was gaunt.

To make up for not having a review three weeks ago, today I'm reviewing "Extra Disastrous!", the new lead story in B&V Friends #260.

This week, I review "Just Another Day!" from B&V #269.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 09, 2018, 07:11:21 PM
One big question in my mind is "Why would a cancerous breast tumor be treated by chemotherapy, causing Cheryl's hair to fall out?" Aren't localized cancerous tumors normally dealt with by surgery? A breast tumor would definitely be caught early enough to prevent the cancer spreading to vital organs where it couldn't be neatly cut out by surgeons. I admit I'm no cancer expert, so maybe I'm way off-base there.

No idea. Cheryl had already had the mastectomy, and her hair had already fallen out, by the time that she called Jason (when she was about to come home). No idea how she managed to pay for it. She hadn't told Jason anything about it until the phone call (by which point she was in fragile shape). Maybe she told her parents, they paid, and she swore them to secrecy. Dunno.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 07, 2018, 01:41:17 AM
but I do take your meaning, as the "Death of Archie" final story arc of LWA was being intentionally vague in details to the point where it could have been taking place in either, or both, the Bettyverse and the Veronicaverse. Oddly enough I remember 'way back on the old (pre-server crash) forum where someone else (I've forgotten who, now) argued that there were definite clues placing the DoA story in (I think it was) the Bettyverse, and I don't remember what those clues were or if I even recognized them.

That was me. From what I recall, some of the clues hinged on Cheryl. Okay, a bit of backstory:

Cheryl appeared in issue #1 - in the Veronicaverse. A lonely, dejected Betty called up Cheryl to chat, so she could get a confidence boost. Cheryl didn't reveal she had to resort to waiting tables at a restaurant to make ends meet while trying to get her big break in Hollywood. Then we didn't see this version of Cheryl again for a long time.

Over in the Bettyverse, Cheryl eventually showed up (with the same backstory of waiting tables) and did the whole breast cancer storyline. This is what we mostly think of when we think of LWA Cheryl. This Cheryl underwent a mastectomy and chemotherapy, resulting in the loss of her breasts and hair.

In the Veronicaverse, Cheryl showed up as a guest at Jughead and Ethel's wedding, just prior to Archie's death. She had boobs and long, flowing red hair, so she obviously never got cancer in the Veronicaverse. These were just silent cameos, so it's unknown whether her career took off.

Now for the death of Archie and the aftermath. It's quite obvious that the writer and artist were going for a vague "it could be either - or both" approach - as if the shown events were simultaneously occurring in both the Veronicaverse and the Bettyverse. For example, Archie never explicitly mentions his spouse by name, the girls never explicitly mention being married, and, perhaps most cheaply, neither girl is wearing a wedding ring, even though (if I recall correctly) Archie is. However, a few clues point to it being the Bettyverse:

The school is renamed after Archie, which seems like something that would be done for a fallen teacher (Bettyverse), not a businessman (Veronicaverse).

The positioning of some of the characters in one scene (even though they're in shadow) indicates Betty is the one being addressed - and in such a way that it indicates she's now a widow. This is one of those "study each panel closely" situations.

A short-haired Cheryl shows up; she seems to have boobs, but they're not on display; there's talk of how she's doing. This would obviously be a post-chemo, post-reconstructive surgery Cheryl (Bettyverse). You don't go from having fabulous boobs (Veronicaverse) right before Archie's death to a post-cancer recovery just a year later.

There might be other clues, but I don't recall at the moment.