Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 10, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
I agree zombies and werewolves are gross but not AS gross as chicks dressed like bikers in my opinion.  I want to stress that I'm a hardcore feminist and believe women who want to be bikers should do so.  I'm only stating a personal preference when it comes to what art I want to look at.  I have a certain image of Betty and Veronica and that's what I prefer.  It's not that I think it's WRONG that they're making them bikers, it just turns me completely off.   BUT as I said, I'll give issue one a try and if the writing is great, I'm sure I can deal with the image.  It will just have to be REALLY great. 

It will be interesting to see whether this turns out to be Betty & Veronica "dressed like" bikers, or Betty & Veronica AS bikers. There's a huge gap between those two to me. Not all bikers are the same, but as long as they remain Betty & Veronica (as I understand them), and there's some sense of humor to it, I'll be happy with it. Adam Hughes' version did not meet those requirements for me.

Can they be convincing (in whatever context they're using, which may turn out to be more fantasy than reality) as bikers, and still BE Betty & Veronica? That's what I'm interested in finding out. I suspect that a little TOO much reality here could torpedo the whole idea, because it would force the characters to change to fit the situation. If it turns out that the Vixens in the story are merely lookalikes for B&V, and aren't really those characters at all, as they've been previously established, I'll drop it like a hot potato.

Normally I'd find a female who doesn't bathe and wallows around in filthy mud with a bunch of pigs to be a turnoff to me personally (in real life), but you know what? In comics, Moonbeam McSwine really made that look work for her.

Quote from: terrence12 on August 10, 2017, 10:10:47 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 10, 2017, 08:47:51 AM
Hey, everything they've been publishing (except the digest stories) since mid-2015 has been an "alternate take" as far as I'm concerned. And before that, Afterlife With Archie. And before THAT, Life With Archie, and before THAT, "New Look Archie" and "Manga Sabrina".

Ok,Ok so most of the brand stories except the main one are  alternate takes of the characters.

You still failed to grasp my point, terrence. What you are calling "the main one" IS an alternate take, no different than the rest of those I mentioned (and the many others I failed to mention). If it's not "classic Archie", then by definition it's "an alternate take". And at its current longevity of 22 issues, it still has a long way to go to beat the previous alternate take record-holder (Life With Archie magazine).

That's not to say I dislike all alternate takes. There are plenty of them "in the classic Archie style" (as they used to say in the ads for the digests)... Pureheart the Powerful (& friends), Jughead's Time Police, Archie 1, Archie 3000!, Archie's Weird Mysteries, Agents B&V, Archie's Explorers of the Unknown, Jughead Jones Semi-Private Eye, Betty & Veronica's Storybook, Archie Cyber Adventures, Betty Cooper Super-Sleuther, etc.

Before the appearance of Your Pal Archie #1, ACP had completely ceased publishing any "regular, non-alternate" Archie comic books in the floppy comics format for two years, while the new 5-page "regular" stories in the digests continued on.

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 10, 2017, 06:46:26 AM
Still, biker chicks are gross, something I've never said about B&V.

Zombies and werewolves are gross, but I didn't read you raising a stink about it when they turned Jughead into one of them. Maybe you're just saving up your outrage for when they turn him into a surfer dude?

I have no interest in reading "Jughead is a werewolf". Stupidest idea ever. Unless there turns out to be more to it than just that. Like if his future time-travelling self had to hunt down his past werewolf-self by chasing him throughout history or something. Probably still pointless though, since it would be obvious he's already succeeded (think about it).

My point is, on a relative scale? Oh, in this series B&V ride motorcycles. Big whoop, I'm appalled. A drop in the bucket compared to any of a half-dozen plot twists Aguirre-Sacasa has served up on a platter. That's just the TV show, not AWA.

Hey, everything they've been publishing (except the digest stories) since mid-2015 has been an "alternate take" as far as I'm concerned. And before that, Afterlife With Archie. And before THAT, Life With Archie, and before THAT, "New Look Archie" and "Manga Sabrina".

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 10, 2017, 06:46:26 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 09, 2017, 07:47:55 PM

Quote from: terrence12 on August 09, 2017, 01:15:56 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 09, 2017, 09:56:27 AM
I doubt that Betty & Veronica VIXENS will be anything like Sons of Anarchy, but we'll see I guess.

Yeah,Besides Sons of Anarchy has biker genre. So maybe VIXENS will do the same thing except it probably pays more homage to the Biker films from the late 60's to 70s

Maybe it's me, but trying to read between the lines there I didn't get the slightest impression that VIXENS was going to be a "MR" title, so probably no sex and drugs, or anything R-rated there, I think. More like some fantasy B&V 'girls gone wild' thing, while remaining all-ages, like the New Riverdale titles. Who knows, maybe we'll see Nick St. Clair again? 

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 09, 2017, 01:09:56 PM
The only one of these I'm REMOTELY interested in is B&V Vixens but I'm only committing to one issue and hope it's better than the concept sounds. 

This might be a bridge too far for me.  Call me old fashioned but biker chicks disgust me and thinking of Betty as some kind of edgy biker (or Veronica for that matter) is disturbing. 

I've been pretty supportive of all the reboots up to now.  I'm hoping this one surprises me, but this might be the first Archie reboot I don't subscribe to.

Keep in mind that it's written and drawn by women, VJ. I very much doubt you're going to see B&V portrayed in the more realistic vein of the outlaw biker women on Sons of Anarchy, or the stereotypical biker chicks of the 1968-1972 R-rated biker exploitation movies. They won't be drinking beer, smoking pot, seeing which one can amass the biggest collection of tattoos, and having random sex off-panel with hunky biker dudes.

I imagine this will be more like a girly girlpower schoolgirl fantasy of... "Hey, did you ever imagine what it would be like if we were badass biker babes? Vroom! VaROOM!!"  "Oh wow, I wonder what THAT would be like...?" [...Cue harpstring chorus and wavy-gravy dissolve to the dream sequence.]  ...But if they're smart they'll realize that the title can't survive with only female readers, so they'll try to make sure it has some appeal to male readers as well.

I don't think this will be any more of an "action" title than the recently rebooted Josie and the Pussycats. I don't expect the kind of Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa written/David Lynch-inspired "dark underbelly" take of an Afterlife With Archie. Veronica will still be picking out her designer original biker leathers from Paris, and Betty will still be stopping to help a little girl find her stray cat.

Maybe you should write it.  That doesn't seem as bad as what I'm fearing.  Still, biker chicks are gross, something I've never said about B&V.

I just don't see where you're getting a heebie-jeebie vibe from THIS cover (drawn by the actual interior artist), Vegan. This looks sort of quaint, almost like those fairy-tale covers.

Quote from: terrence12 on August 09, 2017, 01:15:56 PM

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Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 09, 2017, 09:56:27 AM
I doubt that Betty & Veronica VIXENS will be anything like Sons of Anarchy, but we'll see I guess.

Yeah,Besides Sons of Anarchy has biker genre. So maybe VIXENS will do the same thing except it probably pays more homage to the Biker films from the late 60's to 70s

Maybe it's me, but trying to read between the lines there I didn't get the slightest impression that VIXENS was going to be a "MR" title, so probably no sex and drugs, or anything R-rated there, I think. More like some fantasy B&V 'girls gone wild' thing, while remaining all-ages, like the New Riverdale titles. Who knows, maybe we'll see Nick St. Clair again? 

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 09, 2017, 01:09:56 PM
The only one of these I'm REMOTELY interested in is B&V Vixens but I'm only committing to one issue and hope it's better than the concept sounds. 

This might be a bridge too far for me.  Call me old fashioned but biker chicks disgust me and thinking of Betty as some kind of edgy biker (or Veronica for that matter) is disturbing. 

I've been pretty supportive of all the reboots up to now.  I'm hoping this one surprises me, but this might be the first Archie reboot I don't subscribe to.

Keep in mind that it's written and drawn by women, VJ. I very much doubt you're going to see B&V portrayed in the more realistic vein of the outlaw biker women on Sons of Anarchy, or the stereotypical biker chicks of the 1968-1972 R-rated biker exploitation movies. They won't be drinking beer, smoking pot, seeing which one can amass the biggest collection of tattoos, and having random sex off-panel with hunky biker dudes.

I imagine this will be more like a girly girlpower schoolgirl fantasy of... "Hey, did you ever imagine what it would be like if we were badass biker babes? Vroom! VaROOM!!"  "Oh wow, I wonder what THAT would be like...?" [...Cue harpstring chorus and wavy-gravy dissolve to the dream sequence.]  ...But if they're smart they'll realize that the title can't survive with only female readers, so they'll try to make sure it has some appeal to male readers as well.

I don't think this will be any more of an "action" title than the recently rebooted Josie and the Pussycats. I don't expect the kind of Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa written/David Lynch-inspired "dark underbelly" take of an Afterlife With Archie. Veronica will still be picking out her designer original biker leathers from Paris, and Betty will still be stopping to help a little girl find her stray cat.

08-09-17:
NEWSBOY LEGION & BOY COMMANDOS SPECIAL #1
MISTER MIRACLE #1 (of 12)
DETECTIVE COMICS #962
THE PHANTOM: PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S MISSION #1 (of 5)
THE SHADOW #1
GREEN HORNET '66 MEETS THE SPIRIT #2 (of 5)
THE GREATEST ADVENTURE #4 (of 9)
ASH VS. THE ARMY OF DARKNESS #2
KILL OR BE KILLED #11
VIOLENT LOVE #7
FREEWAY FIGHTER #4 (of 4)

Quote from: terrence12 on August 09, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
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Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 09, 2017, 09:56:27 AM
I'm surprised you didn't mention the rebooted COSMO, since that's the only title they specifically mentioned as being an Archie Action title.

Actually COSMO hasn't been announced yet or greenlighted

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/archie-comics-ceo-taking-risks-classic-characters-future-riverdale-1027516?utm_source=twitter&utm_source=Direct

THAT sure sounded like an announcement to me... plus the confirmation that Sonic is moving to IDW.

The Mighty Crusaders is written by Ian Flynn, so there's some hope there that it might follow in the same vein as his New Crusaders: Rise of the Heroes miniseries.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the rebooted COSMO, since that's the only title they specifically mentioned as being an Archie Action title.

I doubt that Betty & Veronica VIXENS will be anything like Sons of Anarchy, but we'll see I guess.

QUEEN EMERALDAS HC GN VOL 02 (Kodansha 2017) Here's hoping for a reprint of the original Captain Harlock manga someday, although Kodansha doesn't have those rights.

Eternal Wanderer EMERALDAS: The Children of Eden #1-4 (Eternity Comics 1990) Not bad as Eternity titles go. This was one of their better ones.

MONSTERS: MARVEL MONSTERBUS HC VOL 01 (Marvel 2017) - Well, they've now reprinted every Jack Kirby pre-Marvel superhero SF/fantasy story in this (and a second volume) HC collection, but they did leave out a few giant monster stories which Kirby didn't draw. Hopefully someday Steve Ditko will get a similar comprehensive reprinting of SF/fantasy pre-superhero stories from Marvel. They did release a complete AMAZING FANTASY OMNIBUS a few years back, which was all Ditko stories, but that by no means represents the bulk of his contributions to the pre-Marvel Age fantasy titles.

Quote from: Tuxedo Mark on August 06, 2017, 02:52:22 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 06, 2017, 05:24:56 AM
In the context of cartoon reality, it's funny...when Archie is oblivious to anyone's feelings but his own

Not sure why this would be considered funny. I'm currently re-watching an episode of "Archie's Weird Mysteries" where Archie is obsessed with his car and not really paying attention to the girls. The girls are offended but just kinda take it, and they sigh in frustration. I keep thinking "Quiet DUMP the idiot! He's not gonna notice your lack of presence in his life anyway!"

It's something that I think about whenever I see it in a story, and it's something that makes Archie an exasperating character, especially since he's the main protagonist in most of these stories. It's one of the things that makes it hard for me personally to identify with Archie and to root for him. I don't want to see him win, I want to see him lose, because that makes for a funnier story. But as long as the story is existing for the purpose of creating comedic situations, and the characters are drawn in a simple humorous manner, ultimately you can't get too worked up about it, because you know the events of the story have no cumulative effect. By the next story, it will be as though none of the events happening in this story ever happened. That's why Archie never really learns any life lessons, or grows or changes as a character. There can be stories whose resolution seems to result in Archie learning some kind of lesson, but ultimately that has no effect on how his character (or Betty's, or Veronica's, or any of them, really) are written or behave in subsequent stories.

At least that's how the character was conceived originally, and how it worked in classic-style Archie stories for 75 years. Now they're trying to retrofit those characters into a different storytelling mode altogether, one in which stories are routinely ongoing, and there IS supposed to be some kind of cumulative continuity that would allow the characters to change and evolve in the progression of the stories. It's not a situation comedy any more, with familiar tropes repeating themselves over and over in short, self-contained stories -- they want to try treating the characters as more "real". It doesn't work for me.

If they were giving the reality treatment to a typical plot involving Reggie, it might be Moose Mason being arrested by the police, while Reggie Mantle lay in the ICU after being brutally beaten by Moose, regretting the day he stopped being a cartoon character who could instantly recover from those kinds of injuries by the beginning of the next story.

In the context of cartoon reality, it's funny when Reggie acts like a total jerk or pranks people, or when Moose goes into a blind rage and beats the crap out of Reggie, or when Archie is oblivious to anyone's feelings but his own... not so much in a storytelling mode where you're trying to treat the characters 'seriously'.

I actually read ARCHIE #20-22 a couple of weeks ago, just to see what all the hubbub was all about. "Over the Edge" seems like a pretty cheesy attempt at some soap-opera theatrics, troweling a copious layer of angst on top of the usual behavior of Archie, Reggie, Veronica, and Betty.

Reggie acts like a jerk as usual. He doesn't care so much about taking Archie's car as just making him look like a dweeb in front of Veronica, and Archie, predictably, is just dumb enough to fall right into his trap. He'd just as soon do something both stupid and dangerous (not that there's one chance in a million of his car beating Reggie's in a street race) if he thinks that there's even the slightest possibility it might save his reputation from looking like a "loser" in Veronica's eyes. If that's all Veronica cares about Archie, she's not worth the bother.

But of course if either of the idiots responsible for creating this dangerous game of chicken were to suffer as a result of it, we'd just say... "Serves him right for being such a total dick" or "What kind of idiot cares so much about his 'image' that he gets suckered into something like that?" and that they got what they deserved. But of course that would be too easy, so Archie not using his brain and acting stupid results in poor Betty panicking and not using her brain and acting stupid to try to save him... and of course, blameless as she is, she's the one who had to wind up suffering for it.

Because it's always the innocent and blameless who have to suffer for the jerks and dumbasses of the world, who somehow or other always seem to lead a charmed life. Now in the real world that would be a life-changing event for both Archie and Reggie, and either wind up destroying them, or wising them up and straightening them out, making them re-evaluate their whole outlook and behavior. But we can be pretty sure that isn't going to happen here, because their characters are already written to be what they are... Reggie will always act like a jerk, and Archie will always be good-intentioned, but stupid enough to act like a selfish chump anyway.

Quote from: Vegan Jughead on August 04, 2017, 06:50:08 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 01, 2017, 06:02:35 PM
"Veronica in Texas" was just reprinted last month in one of the B&V digests. I enjoyed it, but didn't learn a thing about Texas. Neither did Veronica, since she spent most of the story with concussion-induced amnesia laboring under the delusion that she was "Dusty Marlowe, Rodeo Star" (from a novel she'd been reading on the plane just before she hit her head due to unexpected turbulence). As "Dusty", she dyed her hair red, which made her look amazingly like Cheryl Blossom (admittedly not much of a concern for readers in 1991, when the story was first published in VERONICA #17). I kinda miss Lady Smitty.

Oh, I need to get a hold of this!

It's in Betty & Veronica Jumbo Comics Digest #255.

Which, by the way, doesn't look like this issue that was solicited a few months ago...


Instead it looks like this:


It officially went on sale July 26th, but I think my subscription copy arrived almost a week early. This is another one of those "switcharoo solicits" that hardly ever gets mentioned, but in the last couple of months there were a spate of them (I think the revised cover art originally appeared on a solicitation for Archie's Funhouse digest, which seems to have skipped an issue, or maybe I'm thinking of the previous B&V Friends Jumbo Comics Digest #254), culminating in the announcement that Jughead & Archie Double Digest was being cancelled and replaced by Archie & Me Comics Digest. It should still be on sale at Barnes & Noble and Wal-Mart brick & mortars, as well as wherever digital comics are sold.

At any rate, various digest shipping dates as solicited got changed, as well as the contents, page count, and cover art... so things appear to be in a volatile state in digestland. The last time it happened on that scale was a few months before both Archie's Funhouse and Jughead & Archie got cut back from 10 times a year to only six times a year.

Quote from: irishmoxie on August 03, 2017, 03:41:44 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on August 01, 2017, 06:02:35 PM
"Veronica in Texas" was just reprinted last month in one of the B&V digests. I enjoyed it, but didn't learn a thing about Texas. Neither did Veronica, since she spent most of the story with concussion-induced amnesia laboring under the delusion that she was "Dusty Marlowe, Rodeo Star" (from a novel she'd been reading on the plane just before she hit her head due to unexpected turbulence). As "Dusty", she dyed her hair red, which made her look amazingly like Cheryl Blossom (admittedly not much of a concern for readers in 1991, when the story was first published in VERONICA #17). I kinda miss Lady Smitty.

Maybe they got feedback after Veronica in Australia and Veronica in Africa where they bang you over the head with factoids about those places.

All of the Veronica travel stories were like that, as far as I can remember. This one contained a couple of insignificant statistics about Dallas and Houston, but they didn't really register because they were just mentioned in passing, and had no bearing on the plot. The only factoid that had any real bearing on the story was the actual purpose of rodeo clowns (to distract the bull when the rider is thrown and in danger of being trampled).

I guess the "Around the World with Veronica" stories were losing steam with readers by that time, and the following issue's "Veronica in the Bahamas" (#18) turned out to be the last. I'd still like to see them all collected in one big trade paperback.