I found a link to this forum off Tumblr and I'm super excited to see such an active Archie Fandom!!!
I love the old comics but the new comics are really great! (As you can probably guess from my username I am super psyched that the newer comics confirmed that Jughead is asexual)
I heard there's going to be a Riverdale TV show and I'm really excited! I'm not usually a fan of "gritty" shows but I'm willing to watch anything Archie Comics puts out. Nice to meet y'all!
Welcome, hope you enjoy your time here 8)
Decades of heritage, & bold new frontiers for the Archie Gang!
Welcome. 8)
Welcome! :)
It took me a while to get that. "Ace"-X-you-all.
Quote from: Acejughead on January 06, 2017, 09:45:56 PM
I found a link to this forum off Tumblr and I'm super excited to see such an active Archie Fandom!!!
I love the old comics but the new comics are really great! (As you can probably guess from my username I am super psyched that the newer comics confirmed that Jughead is asexual)
I heard there's going to be a Riverdale TV show and I'm really excited! I'm not usually a fan of "gritty" shows but I'm willing to watch anything Archie Comics puts out. Nice to meet y'all!
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
The upcoming show has little to do with traditional Archie, but I'm sure you've figured that out by now.
Welcome to the boards, by the way. Help us make this place more active. :)
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 10, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
It, uh, may not matter to you, but it matters to me. There isn't much asexual representation, so it's really encouraging to see characters with my orientation being accepted by the people around them, along with so many Jughead readers.
It shows people like me that being asexual isn't weird or wrong, that we shouldn't sacrifice who we are to find acceptance.
Also I'm not quite sure what you meant by drawing "X's" on his hand???
Quote from: Acejughead on January 10, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 10, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
It, uh, may not matter to you, but it matters to me. There isn't much asexual representation, so it's really encouraging to see characters with my orientation being accepted by the people around them, along with so many Jughead readers.
It shows people like me that being asexual isn't weird or wrong, that we shouldn't sacrifice who we are to find acceptance.
Also I'm not quite sure what you meant by drawing "X's" on his hand???
Jughead has
always been weird. That's what's kept him interesting all these years. Now granted, he's a comic book character, so in a sense he'll always be eternally sixteen. But at sixteen, it's a little soon to start labeling people as this or that, because a lot of things can change between sixteen and adulthood. Just because he's a certain way at sixteen doesn't mean he'll never ever change.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 11:06:26 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 10, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 10, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
It, uh, may not matter to you, but it matters to me. There isn't much asexual representation, so it's really encouraging to see characters with my orientation being accepted by the people around them, along with so many Jughead readers.
It shows people like me that being asexual isn't weird or wrong, that we shouldn't sacrifice who we are to find acceptance.
Also I'm not quite sure what you meant by drawing "X's" on his hand???
Jughead has always been weird. That's what's kept him interesting all these years. Now granted, he's a comic book character, so in a sense he'll always be eternally sixteen. But at sixteen, it's a little soon to start labeling people as this or that, because a lot of things can change between sixteen and adulthood. Just because he's a certain way at sixteen doesn't mean he'll never ever change.
Sorry, to clarify: Jughead is wonderfully weird, I meant that it is not his asexuality that makes him weird.
Regardless of the age it is suitable to "label" someone, Jughead is a fictional character. His identity is whatever his author decides it should be. So Jughead, in this iteration at the very least, is definitely asexual, and always will be - because Zdarsky and North have labeled him as such. So there's not much point in pointing out his age, because a sixteen year old was not the one who decided his orientation.
Anyway, I love how Jughead is canonically asexual. And how it's perfectly possible for someone to know their sexuality even at 16. But acejughead thank you for being so reasonable and good in your responses.
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 01:19:44 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 11:06:26 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 10, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 10, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
It, uh, may not matter to you, but it matters to me. There isn't much asexual representation, so it's really encouraging to see characters with my orientation being accepted by the people around them, along with so many Jughead readers.
It shows people like me that being asexual isn't weird or wrong, that we shouldn't sacrifice who we are to find acceptance.
Also I'm not quite sure what you meant by drawing "X's" on his hand???
Jughead has always been weird. That's what's kept him interesting all these years. Now granted, he's a comic book character, so in a sense he'll always be eternally sixteen. But at sixteen, it's a little soon to start labeling people as this or that, because a lot of things can change between sixteen and adulthood. Just because he's a certain way at sixteen doesn't mean he'll never ever change.
Sorry, to clarify: Jughead is wonderfully weird, I meant that it is not his asexuality that makes him weird.
Regardless of the age it is suitable to "label" someone, Jughead is a fictional character. His identity is whatever his author decides it should be. So Jughead, in this iteration at the very least, is definitely asexual, and always will be - because Zdarsky and North have labeled him as such. So there's not much point in pointing out his age, because a sixteen year old was not the one who decided his orientation.
Well, the writer can think whatever he wants, but I wonder what's the point of blabbing that he's asexual all over the internet, if he isn't going to put the words into Jughead's mouth? And though the writer may be Jughead's "voice" currently, NOBODY wants to be labeled, unless it's a self-declarative statement of identity. But so far, I've seen no such thing in the comics.
Not only has Jughead not declared himself "asexual and proud" (or whatever) to his friends, but as readers we haven't even been given a peek into his private thoughts that indicates that this is the way he thinks of himself. Because that's the only thing that's important here with these labels -- the ones people decide to stick on themselves (even fictional characters) as some sort of statement of intent. He may not be displaying any interest in sex or romance now, but he hasn't exactly issued any manifestos stating that he never ever will be interested in those things, or that his mind is made up and unchangeable. I mean, isn't that the whole point of these labels? "Gay", "Straight", "Bi", "Asexual"... It's like a permanent condition, it's not something you do for a while before you change your mind and switch labels to something different. I say permanent, but with asexuality it's how everyone starts as an infant. It's pretty hard to say that someone is asexual, unless that's what they declare themselves to be, because ALL of us at one time lived through a time of our lives when we weren't interested in sex or romance, but it's a extremely variable phase for each individual, so someone who isn't interested in those things at 12 could be at 15, and someone else might not be interested at 16 and could be at 19. So the only way asexual is going to apply to Jughead is if it's a conscious choice of Jughead's that he has decided to label himself as identifying that way. I've seen a lot about what he thinks of hamburgers, but nothing about that.
Without that, all we've got for concrete evidence is "Oh, didn't you hear? The new writer of Jughead definitely says he's writing him as asexual", which seems like a pretty wishy-washy commitment to an idea to me.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 11, 2017, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 01:19:44 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 11:06:26 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 10, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 10, 2017, 05:58:58 PM
Why does "asexual" even matter? He's a 16 year old goofy kid. Draw some "X's" on his hand. He's probably straight edge, too.
It, uh, may not matter to you, but it matters to me. There isn't much asexual representation, so it's really encouraging to see characters with my orientation being accepted by the people around them, along with so many Jughead readers.
It shows people like me that being asexual isn't weird or wrong, that we shouldn't sacrifice who we are to find acceptance.
Also I'm not quite sure what you meant by drawing "X's" on his hand???
Jughead has always been weird. That's what's kept him interesting all these years. Now granted, he's a comic book character, so in a sense he'll always be eternally sixteen. But at sixteen, it's a little soon to start labeling people as this or that, because a lot of things can change between sixteen and adulthood. Just because he's a certain way at sixteen doesn't mean he'll never ever change.
Sorry, to clarify: Jughead is wonderfully weird, I meant that it is not his asexuality that makes him weird.
Regardless of the age it is suitable to "label" someone, Jughead is a fictional character. His identity is whatever his author decides it should be. So Jughead, in this iteration at the very least, is definitely asexual, and always will be - because Zdarsky and North have labeled him as such. So there's not much point in pointing out his age, because a sixteen year old was not the one who decided his orientation.
Well, the writer can think whatever he wants, but I wonder what's the point of blabbing that he's asexual all over the internet, if he isn't going to put the words into Jughead's mouth? And though the writer may be Jughead's "voice" currently, NOBODY wants to be labeled, unless it's a self-declarative statement of identity. But so far, I've seen no such thing in the comics.
Not only has Jughead not declared himself "asexual and proud" (or whatever) to his friends, but as readers we haven't even been given a peek into his private thoughts that indicates that this is the way he thinks of himself. Because that's the only thing that's important here with these labels -- the ones people decide to stick on themselves (even fictional characters) as some sort of statement of intent. He may not be displaying any interest in sex or romance now, but he hasn't exactly issued any manifestos stating that he never ever will be interested in those things, or that his mind is made up and unchangeable. I mean, isn't that the whole point of these labels? "Gay", "Straight", "Bi", "Asexual"... It's like a permanent condition, it's not something you do for a while before you change your mind and switch labels to something different. I say permanent, but with asexuality it's how everyone starts as an infant. It's pretty hard to say that someone is asexual, unless that's what they declare themselves to be, because ALL of us at one time lived through a time of our lives when we weren't interested in sex or romance, but it's a extremely variable phase for each individual, so someone who isn't interested in those things at 12 could be at 15, and someone else might not be interested at 16 and could be at 19. So the only way asexual is going to apply to Jughead is if it's a conscious choice of Jughead's that he has decided to label himself as identifying that way. I've seen a lot about what he thinks of hamburgers, but nothing about that.
Without that, all we've got for concrete evidence is "Oh, didn't you hear? The new writer of Jughead definitely says he's writing him as asexual", which seems like a pretty wishy-washy commitment to an idea to me.
Sorry, but I don't really see why you're trying to sort of debate this with me when you clearly either A) Haven't been reading the new Jughead comics? (Where he specifically talks about being asexual in multiple issues - occasionally not using the word "asexual" but he shouldn't need to repeat it when the readers and characters already know) or B) Are uninformed about about sexuality and orientations (also I realized I was asexual - as in I found out that there was a word for how I have always felt - in middle school and am currently in college, I have never experienced romantic or sexual attraction in any form and I have no medical conditions that would "make me asexual" so 16 is definitely not too young. My best friend has identified as heterosexual since I met her in 1st grade, and no one ever told her it was "too soon" for her to label herself just some food for thought)
If you've got questions about asexuality or how they are displaying that in the comics, feel free to ask! But I'd really prefer you didn't try to push me into this position of needing to "prove" things that have already been discussed by the author, as well as in canon. Sorry!
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 11, 2017, 12:07:44 PM
Without that, all we've got for concrete evidence is "Oh, didn't you hear? The new writer of Jughead definitely says he's writing him as asexual", which seems like a pretty wishy-washy commitment to an idea to me.
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fvulture%2F2016%2F02%2F08%2F08-jughead.w1200.h630.jpg&hash=281664085bb0876144c3fd0de989ef83c4f2c0d0)
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 11, 2017, 12:07:44 PM
Without that, all we've got for concrete evidence is "Oh, didn't you hear? The new writer of Jughead definitely says he's writing him as asexual", which seems like a pretty wishy-washy commitment to an idea to me.
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fvulture%2F2016%2F02%2F08%2F08-jughead.w1200.h630.jpg&hash=281664085bb0876144c3fd0de989ef83c4f2c0d0)
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
To this day I still carry the burden of Satanism because I dared to wear a Black Sabbath shirt to school years before Ozzy became a darling to millions.
"X's" and "straight edge"? Now I feel marginalized. I'll confer with folks on Reddit to see if I should be offended
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Not in the least. Adults are not the be all end all in opinions imo, just that I'd take a high school kids opinion with a grain or two of salt is all I'm saying.
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Not in the least. Adults are not the be all end all in opinions imo, just that I'd take a high school kids opinion with a grain or two of salt is all I'm saying.
'
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
You get it said by the people controlling all the characters.
They even write it in and then have the character consistently act in ways that confirm his asexuality.
What are you trying to get me to say? Congratulations for not trusting children??
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Not in the least. Adults are not the be all end all in opinions imo, just that I'd take a high school kids opinion with a grain or two of salt is all I'm saying.
'
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
You get it said by the people controlling all the characters.
They even write it in and then have the chainracter consistently act in ways that confirm his asexuality.
What are you trying to get me to say? Congratulations for not trusting children??
Umm, you're right on all counts.
Consistently from creators like Montana, Doyle, Boldman, etc. is out the window? Where did I imply I don't trust children?
Should I leap for joy over a cartoon characters sexuality? I barely care about my own. Maybe there's a name for that, and someone should incorporate that into my custom title.
I should start posting in all caps, maybe. Because. :)
I forgot the apostrophe in "characters".
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Not in the least. Adults are not the be all end all in opinions imo, just that I'd take a high school kids opinion with a grain or two of salt is all I'm saying.
'
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
You get it said by the people controlling all the characters.
They even write it in and then have the chainracter consistently act in ways that confirm his asexuality.
What are you trying to get me to say? Congratulations for not trusting children??
Umm, you're right on all counts.
Consistently from creators like Montana, Doyle, Boldman, etc. is out the window? Where did I imply I don't trust children?
Should I leap for joy over a cartoon characters sexuality? I barely care about my own. Maybe there's a name for that, and someone should incorporate that into my custom title.
I should start posting in all caps, maybe. Because. :)
I forgot the apostrophe in "characters".
Listen, I made a post to say "Hi! I'm joining this forum! I like the comics, and asexual Jughead is something I really like!" I never said any of you had to be excited, but apparently if it matters to one person it needs to matter to everyone (before you quote that line and say that you "never said that" I'm going to point out that you asked me why it matters. That was the first thing you said to me. It doesn't have to matter to you and I never said it did. I was just saying I was happy he was asexual, I wasn't pushing some kind of agenda. It matters to me.)
I never said that other creators said he was ace. I specifically mentioned Ryan North and Chip Zdarsky. When I say "asexual Jughead" I am talking about the "New Riverdale" line of comics, not any previous ones. I made the username "acejughead" because that's what I'm excited about, just like other users have made usernames related to them shipping Betty and Reggie. Because betty/reggie is what they support and they are excited about the pairing.
I typed in caps because I was trying to communicate that I was frustrated. I will avoid doing that from now on, I was just unsure how to get that frustration across in text. Don't be passive aggressive with me, just ask me not to type in all caps.
Since apparently you're going to nitpick, I'm sorry for making a typo or two. Also, I think you were trying to say that I made a typo? In which case you should've written "You forgot the apostrophe in "characters"." I also misspelled characters but you missed that lol
please stop trying to have some kind of debate I wasn't trying to cause an argument by simply bringing up a character's sexuality. Sorry my identity and enjoyment of a comic book is so controversial.
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
I want to hear it coming from Jughead himself. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask, for the author to take what he's saying on the internet and put those words into Jughead's dialogue. I've read the comics, and it doesn't matter what Kevin decides to label Jughead, only what Jughead labels himself. Kevin can speak for himself, but not for Jughead.
You shouldn't have to read what the author says on the internet to interpret what's in the comic (that's a DVD extra 'commentary' track). It's entirely possible (even more than possible if you're not keeping up with the internet buzz) to read what Jughead himself says or doesn't say in NRJ as not particularly different from a lot of the classic Jughead stories. Maybe ACP feels that in an all-ages comic it can't be as overt as that, but I don't see what the big deal is. Just show me where he refers to or identifies himself as asexual, that's all. If you want to make a definite statement about something, then just have the character say it out loud, instead of implying it, or having the author explain what he meant, outside of the context of the story. Otherwise it isn't a strong statement of an idea; it's not conclusive.
I guess maybe I have to state in no uncertain terms that what I'm criticizing here isn't some issue of whether Jughead is or isn't asexual, I'm criticizing the writing itself. The story should speak for itself without ambiguity so that the author has to add no out-of-context commentary.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
I want to hear it coming from Jughead himself. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask, for the author to take what he's saying on the internet and put those words into Jughead's dialogue. I've read the comics, and it doesn't matter what Kevin decides to label Jughead, only what Jughead labels himself. Kevin can speak for himself, but not for Jughead.
You shouldn't have to read what the author says on the internet to interpret what's in the comic (that's a DVD extra 'commentary' track). It's entirely possible (even more than possible if you're not keeping up with the internet buzz) to read what Jughead himself says or doesn't say in NRJ as not particularly different from a lot of the classic Jughead stories. Maybe ACP feels that in an all-ages comic it can't be as overt as that, but I don't see what the big deal is. Just show me where he refers to or identifies himself as asexual, that's all. If you want to make a definite statement about something, then just have the character say it out loud, instead of implying it, or having the author explain what he meant, outside of the context of the story. Otherwise it isn't a strong statement of an idea; it's not conclusive.
I guess maybe I have to state in no uncertain terms that what I'm criticizing here isn't some issue of whether Jughead is or isn't asexual, I'm criticizing the writing itself. The story should speak for itself so that the author has to add no out-of-context commentary.
I think that's kind of the point. He HASN'T been changed as far as characterization. All that's changed is the terminology. And he's the rest of that page, where Jughead confirms Kevin's assessment:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicsalliance.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2Fjug.png&hash=85aa066800931eefea23a198ea10cbeb8935d1de)
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 12, 2017, 12:59:45 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
I want to hear it coming from Jughead himself. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask, for the author to take what he's saying on the internet and put those words into Jughead's dialogue. I've read the comics, and it doesn't matter what Kevin decides to label Jughead, only what Jughead labels himself. Kevin can speak for himself, but not for Jughead.
You shouldn't have to read what the author says on the internet to interpret what's in the comic (that's a DVD extra 'commentary' track). It's entirely possible (even more than possible if you're not keeping up with the internet buzz) to read what Jughead himself says or doesn't say in NRJ as not particularly different from a lot of the classic Jughead stories. Maybe ACP feels that in an all-ages comic it can't be as overt as that, but I don't see what the big deal is. Just show me where he refers to or identifies himself as asexual, that's all. If you want to make a definite statement about something, then just have the character say it out loud, instead of implying it, or having the author explain what he meant, outside of the context of the story. Otherwise it isn't a strong statement of an idea; it's not conclusive.
I guess maybe I have to state in no uncertain terms that what I'm criticizing here isn't some issue of whether Jughead is or isn't asexual, I'm criticizing the writing itself. The story should speak for itself so that the author has to add no out-of-context commentary.
I think that's kind of the point. He HASN'T been changed as far as characterization. All that's changed is the terminology. And he's the rest of that page, where Jughead confirms Kevin's assessment:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicsalliance.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2Fjug.png&hash=85aa066800931eefea23a198ea10cbeb8935d1de)
Yes, thank you! This isn't like when J.K. Rowling was like "oh btw Dumbledore was totally gay, see I had representation in Harry Potter"
Zdarsky explained, before the comic was created, that he would be writing Jughead as asexual, because someone asked him at a panel.
Throughout the comics there are some really obvious scenes and Jughead talks about being asexual, but doesn't feel the need to say the word, because that would be unnecessarily repetitive. DeCarlo, if you actually don't know what scenes I'm talking about and they went over your head or something, I have already said I'm willing to explain, but you clearly have some weird standards about a character's identity or don't actually want to understand. I don't have to prove anything to you. I am not the writer of Jughead, I can't get him to make some panel where Jughead looks straight at us and goes "OH BTW I'm asexual". Please stop trying to back me into a corner about how Jughead is being portrayed. The asexuality is being handled really well in the comic and I'm sorry that isn't enough for you.
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 12, 2017, 12:59:45 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
I want to hear it coming from Jughead himself. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask, for the author to take what he's saying on the internet and put those words into Jughead's dialogue. I've read the comics, and it doesn't matter what Kevin decides to label Jughead, only what Jughead labels himself. Kevin can speak for himself, but not for Jughead.
You shouldn't have to read what the author says on the internet to interpret what's in the comic (that's a DVD extra 'commentary' track). It's entirely possible (even more than possible if you're not keeping up with the internet buzz) to read what Jughead himself says or doesn't say in NRJ as not particularly different from a lot of the classic Jughead stories. Maybe ACP feels that in an all-ages comic it can't be as overt as that, but I don't see what the big deal is. Just show me where he refers to or identifies himself as asexual, that's all. If you want to make a definite statement about something, then just have the character say it out loud, instead of implying it, or having the author explain what he meant, outside of the context of the story. Otherwise it isn't a strong statement of an idea; it's not conclusive.
I guess maybe I have to state in no uncertain terms that what I'm criticizing here isn't some issue of whether Jughead is or isn't asexual, I'm criticizing the writing itself. The story should speak for itself so that the author has to add no out-of-context commentary.
I think that's kind of the point. He HASN'T been changed as far as characterization. All that's changed is the terminology. And he's the rest of that page, where Jughead confirms Kevin's assessment:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicsalliance.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2Fjug.png&hash=85aa066800931eefea23a198ea10cbeb8935d1de)
Actually, this is exactly what I mean. Instead of Jughead addressing Kevin's identification of him directly, he immediately deflects that into a tangent about Jughead's own relative lack of vulnerabilities or weaknesses compared to Kevin or anyone else. At the same time he isn't challenging what Kevin says about him, he isn't committing to it in principle by reiterating that same identification that Kevin mentioned in his own words, unless you're satisfied by "Yeah, well..."
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 11:57:17 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 10:15:44 PM
Quote from: steveinthecity on January 11, 2017, 10:01:04 PM
There's no more reliable critic of a 16 year old than another 16 year old. ;)
I honest to god have no clue what you meant by the rest of that but are you saying that you'll only accept Jug being asexual if an adult points it out? I cannot think of a context where that wouldn't be either weird, creepy, or both.
Not in the least. Adults are not the be all end all in opinions imo, just that I'd take a high school kids opinion with a grain or two of salt is all I'm saying.
'
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
You get it said by the people controlling all the characters.
They even write it in and then have the chainracter consistently act in ways that confirm his asexuality.
What are you trying to get me to say? Congratulations for not trusting children??
Umm, you're right on all counts.
Consistently from creators like Montana, Doyle, Boldman, etc. is out the window? Where did I imply I don't trust children?
Should I leap for joy over a cartoon characters sexuality? I barely care about my own. Maybe there's a name for that, and someone should incorporate that into my custom title.
I should start posting in all caps, maybe. Because. :)
I forgot the apostrophe in "characters".
Listen, I made a post to say "Hi! I'm joining this forum! I like the comics, and asexual Jughead is something I really like!" I never said any of you had to be excited, but apparently if it matters to one person it needs to matter to everyone (before you quote that line and say that you "never said that" I'm going to point out that you asked me why it matters. That was the first thing you said to me. It doesn't have to matter to you and I never said it did. I was just saying I was happy he was asexual, I wasn't pushing some kind of agenda. It matters to me.)
I never said that other creators said he was ace. I specifically mentioned Ryan North and Chip Zdarsky. When I say "asexual Jughead" I am talking about the "New Riverdale" line of comics, not any previous ones. I made the username "acejughead" because that's what I'm excited about, just like other users have made usernames related to them shipping Betty and Reggie. Because betty/reggie is what they support and they are excited about the pairing.
I typed in caps because I was trying to communicate that I was frustrated. I will avoid doing that from now on, I was just unsure how to get that frustration across in text. Don't be passive aggressive with me, just ask me not to type in all caps.
Since apparently you're going to nitpick, I'm sorry for making a typo or two. Also, I think you were trying to say that I made a typo? In which case you should've written "You forgot the apostrophe in "characters"." I also misspelled characters but you missed that lol
please stop trying to have some kind of debate I wasn't trying to cause an argument by simply bringing up a character's sexuality. Sorry my identity and enjoyment of a comic book is so controversial.
I'm listening. ;)
I'm not nitpicking or being passive aggressive by any means. I was genuinely curious about your comment on Jughead's sexuality and why it even matters is all. My favorite comics character since...forever is Jughead, so I'm always interested in what folks opinions about him are, particularly Archie readers.
My comment on the typo was just calling myself out, maybe self depreciation or something along those lines.
I'm not trying to debate or argue. If you're only speaking of behavioral traits in the reboot, that's fine. Probably nothing to debate anyhow. I often take the body of work as a whole and draw conclusions from that. In this instance, I shouldn't do that.
Again, welcome to the forum and I'm glad you're here. If I don't seem to care about yours or others sexual orientation it shouldn't be implied that I don't care about you (or others) as people, but rather I don't care about who you boink or otherwise covet.
As to the comments above, Jughead most assuredly dated girls throughout the years, not sure if that means anything or if it should.
Quote from: Acejughead on January 12, 2017, 01:11:35 AM
I don't have to prove anything to you. I am not the writer of Jughead, I can't get him to make some panel where Jughead looks straight at us and goes "OH BTW I'm asexual". Please stop trying to back me into a corner about how Jughead is being portrayed. The asexuality is being handled really well in the comic and I'm sorry that isn't enough for you.
True you don't, and you're not. So you don't need to feel sorry that the actual writer didn't do enough for me personally.
Why do you feel like this is about you?
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 01:17:28 AM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 12, 2017, 12:59:45 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 11, 2017, 10:36:02 PM
IT'S SAID IN-COMIC AND BY THE AUTHOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM THEM
I want to hear it coming from Jughead himself. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to ask, for the author to take what he's saying on the internet and put those words into Jughead's dialogue. I've read the comics, and it doesn't matter what Kevin decides to label Jughead, only what Jughead labels himself. Kevin can speak for himself, but not for Jughead.
You shouldn't have to read what the author says on the internet to interpret what's in the comic (that's a DVD extra 'commentary' track). It's entirely possible (even more than possible if you're not keeping up with the internet buzz) to read what Jughead himself says or doesn't say in NRJ as not particularly different from a lot of the classic Jughead stories. Maybe ACP feels that in an all-ages comic it can't be as overt as that, but I don't see what the big deal is. Just show me where he refers to or identifies himself as asexual, that's all. If you want to make a definite statement about something, then just have the character say it out loud, instead of implying it, or having the author explain what he meant, outside of the context of the story. Otherwise it isn't a strong statement of an idea; it's not conclusive.
I guess maybe I have to state in no uncertain terms that what I'm criticizing here isn't some issue of whether Jughead is or isn't asexual, I'm criticizing the writing itself. The story should speak for itself so that the author has to add no out-of-context commentary.
I think that's kind of the point. He HASN'T been changed as far as characterization. All that's changed is the terminology. And he's the rest of that page, where Jughead confirms Kevin's assessment:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicsalliance.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2Fjug.png&hash=85aa066800931eefea23a198ea10cbeb8935d1de)
Actually, this is exactly what I mean. Instead of Jughead addressing Kevin's identification of him directly, he immediately deflects that into a tangent about Jughead's own relative lack of vulnerabilities or weaknesses compared to Kevin or anyone else. At the same time he isn't challenging what Kevin says about him, he isn't committing to it in principle by reiterating that same identification that Kevin mentioned in his own words, unless you're satisfied by "Yeah, well..."
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F0cd71ffc9608a98adad3909b05061651%2Ftumblr_ogeh15iK1Q1r9d6abo2_1280.jpg&hash=73e8ae31c03957603ac96c62b6ccbf54d611a871)
"I don't get crushes" is the definition of asexuality (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality).
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 01:28:39 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 12, 2017, 01:11:35 AM
I don't have to prove anything to you. I am not the writer of Jughead, I can't get him to make some panel where Jughead looks straight at us and goes "OH BTW I'm asexual". Please stop trying to back me into a corner about how Jughead is being portrayed. The asexuality is being handled really well in the comic and I'm sorry that isn't enough for you.
True you don't, and you're not. So you don't need to feel sorry that the actual writer didn't do enough for me personally.
Why do you feel like this is about you?
Because this isn't the "argue about Jughead's asexuality" thread, this is my "Hi! I'm a new user!" thread! And you directed the "I'm not convinced" comment at me! I don't care that you want Jughead to explain in detail that he's asexual before you will believe it. Why would I, an asexual, want to hear that you don't believe that one of the only asexual characters I get as representation is actually ace? (that's a rhetorical question please don't try to give me a reason I would want to know because trust me, I did not need to know)
Quote from: Acejughead on January 12, 2017, 01:41:35 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 12, 2017, 01:28:39 AM
Quote from: Acejughead on January 12, 2017, 01:11:35 AM
I don't have to prove anything to you. I am not the writer of Jughead, I can't get him to make some panel where Jughead looks straight at us and goes "OH BTW I'm asexual". Please stop trying to back me into a corner about how Jughead is being portrayed. The asexuality is being handled really well in the comic and I'm sorry that isn't enough for you.
True you don't, and you're not. So you don't need to feel sorry that the actual writer didn't do enough for me personally.
Why do you feel like this is about you?
Because this isn't the "argue about Jughead's asexuality" thread, this is my "Hi! I'm a new user!" thread! And you directed the "I'm not convinced" comment at me! I don't care that you want Jughead to explain in detail that he's asexual before you will believe it. Why would I, an asexual, want to hear that you don't believe that one of the only asexual characters I get as representation is actually ace? (that's a rhetorical question please don't try to give me a reason I would want to know because trust me, I did not need to know)
Perhaps we should move to a new thread then. These things often go off on tangents. I apologize if you feel like my criticism of the writing on Jughead somehow translates into a criticism of you personally, but I really said nothing about you personally.
That said, I probably would not be as critical of what I'm reading in the comic, were it not for the internet statements made by the author. After reading the statements, and then the actual story, the way that his asexuality is addressed in the story just seems somehow underwhelming, since it made me expect something a little more definite in terms of delineating NR Jughead from prior versions of Jughead. Or "over my head", if that's the interpretation that makes you happy.
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 12, 2017, 01:30:12 AM
"I don't get crushes" is the definition of asexuality (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality).
Well, it's ONE OF the definitions, which isn't quite the same.
According to http://www.whatisasexuality.com/intro/ (http://www.whatisasexuality.com/intro/) (just so you don't think I'm pulling this out of thin air):
QuoteAlong with a sexual orientation, people have what's called a romantic or affectional orientation that describes who that person might be romantically attracted to. In many people, the sexual and romantic orientations are aligned, so people tend not to think about them being separate concepts. It is not uncommon for asexuals to experience romantic attraction.
Romantic orientations are given names that parallel sexual orientations. For instance, a heteroromantic person is someone who experiences romantic attraction toward a different gender, homoromantic toward the same gender, and so on. A significant number of asexuals also identify as aromantic, which means that they do not experience romantic attraction.
Separating romantic and sexual attraction is not strictly limited to asexual people, however. For instance, it is possible for someone to be an aromantic heterosexual, or any other combination.
You may identify asexuality as defined by "I don't get crushes", but not all asexuals do, nor do all heterosexuals or homosexuals get romantic crushes. Some people simply keep romance and sex separated, and sexual abstinence isn't necessarily indicative of asexuality either. Darn people are so complicated that you need a hundred labels to keep up.