Archie Comics Fan Forum

Everything Archie => All About Archie => Topic started by: Cosmo on April 14, 2017, 09:24:14 pm

Title: Deja Vu
Post by: Cosmo on April 14, 2017, 09:24:14 pm
One of my pleasures in collecting Archie Comics is finding those I call the Deja Vu issues. It is a fairly usual practice for Archie Comics to use covers from the Golden Age to repeat in the Silver Age. Usually the same gag and cast with some updates in the look. I think the theory was that the average enthusiasm for comic fans was 10 years or less, so there was no need not to recycle a good cover with some updates. Here is Pep 72 from March 1949 and Archie 120 from June 1961.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2017, 06:47:41 am
Yeah, there are a ton of these out there. To say nothing of comparing digest covers with older single issues. There was a short run there of a year or two where the digest covers were actually reprinted, not just redrawn with the same gag, from old issues too.

Then there are the recycled gags where it's not an identical copy down to even the same dialogue, but essentially it's the same joke if you examine it closely, even though the cover layouts of the drawings may not be the same in terms of composition (figures positioned slightly differently, angle or perspective of view, etc.), and wording in balloons may vary somewhat -- it's still the same joke, regardless.

There's even a category where the joke remains the same, but the characters are different from one iteration to another. You might think that would never work, but it's often specific to the nature of the joke, regarding which characters could fit the dialogue.

This is a good thread topic, Cosmo. I guess the only thing is, it requires a lot of time looking through whole runs of covers to find the gags that match each other, unless you happen to just stumble upon one that rings a bell.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: Cosmo on April 15, 2017, 03:26:38 pm
And same gag....different books and characters. Sometimes these are almost like those spot the difference puzzles.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: SAGG on April 15, 2017, 07:27:24 pm
And leave us not to forget the stories, which works on the same principle....
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2017, 08:25:35 pm
I wouldn't be surprised to find the same cover gag duplicated on an Archie Comics cover and a Marvel/Atlas girl humor title. Especially when you consider that they employed some of the very same artists.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: Cosmo on April 20, 2017, 08:48:02 pm
Okay...here is one of my favorite Deja Vu combos. Give good old Archie 10 years to rethink it and he opts for both Veronica and Betty :)
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: Polvertis on April 28, 2017, 07:57:04 am
Looks great. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2017, 02:11:40 pm
Quote from: Cosmo on April 20, 2017, 08:48:02 pm
Okay...here is one of my favorite Deja Vu combos. Give good old Archie 10 years to rethink it and he opts for both Veronica and Betty :)
(https://www.archiefans.com/all-about-archie/deja-vu/?action=dlattach;attach=306;image)


The really interesting thing here is that this would be Exhibit A, that you point to when you're attempting to convince people who are utterly disbelieving when you try to tell them that a "love triangle" didn't always exist. It didn't evolve until the 1960s.

Before that, in the 1940s & '50s, things were a lot more straightforward. Betty pursues Archie, and Archie pursues Veronica. Jughead pursues food. If Jughead can't afford to buy a hamburger (or isn't able to acquire one through mooching or trickery), then he'll settle for a slice of pizza (or whatever food's available). If Archie can't afford to date Veronica (or is otherwise blocked from doing so), then he'll settle for Betty (or whatever girl's available).

???  What's up with that image? When I copy the image address and open it in a new tab, the image is displayed in the landscape format. But when I paste the address in a post using [img] brackets, it displays in portrait mode. Weird.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: steveinthecity on April 29, 2017, 07:31:36 pm
Partial cover redrawn.

Archie's Pals & Gals #29

(https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/723375.jpg)


Archie's Comic's Digest #38

(https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/847521.jpg)


Images from MCS
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 05, 2017, 03:10:33 am
If you ever checked out the WILBUR reprint section in ARCHIE DOUBLE DIGEST in the past, or in the last couple of issues of WORLD OF ARCHIE DOUBLE DIGEST, then you'll probably remember this image, which the digests use as a "title page" for the Wilbur stories section.

It's taken from the cover of WILBUR #89 (Oct. 1964) -  art by Samm Schwartz:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicbookdb.com%2Fgraphics%2Fcomic_graphics%2F1%2F345%2F173642_20090630193438_large.jpg&hash=5cc3b495951067f79366490e683f4a3d)

And here we have the cover of WILBUR #79 (July 1958) - cover art by Harry Lucey:
(https://www.archiefans.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicbookdb.com%2Fgraphics%2Fcomic_graphics%2F1%2F423%2F212545_20101010084607_large.jpg&hash=e439b8db03770182a8716e2c4693be74)
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: steveinthecity on June 05, 2017, 05:08:57 pm
While not the same art, it seems Archie's Rival Reggie #14  and #15 (albeit nine years apart) should be included here.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bKQpRdi7gO4/V8wG7yj9wGI/AAAAAAAAGF4/2pENsxv7cEYNAK7IiCnMIS4aeGl54IDQACLcB/s1600/Reggie%2B14.jpg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8lMLxf6LH9g/V8wGIxLLxfI/AAAAAAAAGF0/uCJ-XPr_eiUGbjdO6afeAZpOBJhwyIpeACLcB/s1600/Reggie%2B15.jpg)
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 07, 2017, 01:41:36 am
It's interesting to compare what's the same and what's different in the two covers above.

THE SAME:
- the joke's identical; dialogue is word-for-word
- Reggie's pose is identical
- Betty's pose is almost identical (one arm with elbow bent, hand on hip; the other holding her tennis racket) - the two are mirror images except for the direction in which Betty is looking

DIFFERENT:
- On #14, Betty is foreground central and the largest figure
- On #15, Archie & Veronica are the largest figures, foreground left
- On #14, Archie & Veronica are the smallest figures, but perspective lines and the direction of Betty's line of sight both lead the viewer's eye
- Betty has gone from being LEFT-handed on #14 to RIGHT-handed on #15!
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: steveinthecity on June 07, 2017, 07:20:44 pm
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 07, 2017, 01:41:36 am

- Betty has gone from being LEFT-handed on #14 to RIGHT-handed on #15!
I think by then the CCA discouraged showing any left handed characters.
Title: Re: Deja Vu
Post by: DeCarlo Rules on June 08, 2017, 01:26:33 am
Quote from: steveinthecity on June 07, 2017, 07:20:44 pm
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on June 07, 2017, 01:41:36 am

- Betty has gone from being LEFT-handed on #14 to RIGHT-handed on #15!
I think by then the CCA discouraged showing any left handed characters.


Then again, it may be a presumption for me to assume Betty's left-handed on the cover of #14.

Note that neither Reggie (on either cover) nor Betty (on issue #14's cover) is gripping the racket as if ready to play -- only on the cover of #15 is Betty properly gripping the racket (right-handed) lower on the handle. On the cover of #14, we could allow that she's merely holding the racket (for whatever reason) in her left hand.

On the other hand (er... so to speak), it's frequently the case where you'll find that artists have concentrated merely on the composition of the drawing, without stopping to consider such details as whether a character would be left- or right- handed, since it's not important to the joke.

One more difference in the two covers which I forgot to note earlier:

- on #14's cover, Archie and Veronica are sitting on the bench in their tennis togs, Archie with racket in hand, awaiting their turn on the court, suggesting a competition -- is it Reggie & Archie vs. B&V, or Archie & Betty vs. Reggie & Veronica? (the latter suggestion tends to make the joke more interesting).

- on #15's cover, there's no indication that Archie & Veronica are involved in playing tennis, they might just be walking by the court for all we can tell.
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