I know I'm going to get some flack for this but I'm willing to risk it.....
Does anybody think the artwork for the Archie reboots is really lacking compared to those in the past? :-X
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 12, 2016, 08:47:18 PM
I know I'm going to get some flack for this but I'm willing to risk it.....
Does anybody think the artwork for the Archie reboots is really lacking compared to those in the past? :-X
I am first going to say I like the Classic Art Style better than the New Rebooted style. Now in the small sample of artists that have started these two new rebooted series there has been some decent artwork for sure, but there has also been some horrendous work as well. I just hope that however these series go on that they start to have some continuity with the art instead of changing artists every few issues. Just my opinion I enjoyed Fiona Staples work the best so far on the Archie reboot and from what I have seen from his work I think I am going to like Derek Charm's artwork on the Jughead series.
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 12, 2016, 08:47:18 PM
I know I'm going to get some flack for this but I'm willing to risk it.....
Does anybody think the artwork for the Archie reboots is really lacking compared to those in the past? :-X
I won't say it's lacking, but I will say that much of it has been a very, very poor fit for these characters.
I don't blame the artists. I blame Archie Comics for this very ill-conceived and audaciously short-sighted idea.
I love Fiona Staples' artwork. By contrast, whoever did the artwork on the "Jughead" title in the beginning did a pretty bad job.
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 12, 2016, 08:47:18 PM
I know I'm going to get some flack for this but I'm willing to risk it.....
Does anybody think the artwork for the Archie reboots is really lacking compared to those in the past? :-X
I like Veronica Fish. I'm also somewhat encouraged by the upcoming guest artist on Jughead, Derek Charm.
Of course I don't like them as much as Fernando, Dan, Jeff, Gisele, Bill, etc etc, but I don't think they're bad.
There's no comparison.
Classic Archie artwork/artists>>>>>>>>reboot artwork
Quote from: spazaru on April 13, 2016, 12:31:37 PM
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 12, 2016, 08:47:18 PM
I know I'm going to get some flack for this but I'm willing to risk it.....
Does anybody think the artwork for the Archie reboots is really lacking compared to those in the past? :-X
I like Veronica Fish. I'm also somewhat encouraged by the upcoming guest artist on Jughead, Derek Charm.
Of course I don't like them as much as Fernando, Dan, Jeff, Gisele, Bill, etc etc, but I don't think they're bad.
I also like from the little I have seen from Derek Charm. I think he will be an upgrade on the Jughead comic.
I like the Archie artwork by both Staples and Fish. I think I like Fish better because of the more cartoon style and the face faults.
The art on Jughead...I don't have a problem with the art style. The first issue was fine, but it got worse as it went. Like I said, she's working two books and that's rough...but I don't think it excuses characters' heads changing shapes ever other panel.
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 13, 2016, 12:48:42 PM
There's no comparison.
Classic Archie artwork/artists>>>>>>>>reboot artwork
To be fair they are two totally different art styles. That being said though most of the masses have spoken out and it does seem like most people prefer the Classic Style over this Rebooted Style. The only way ACP will ever explore the Classic format fully again is when this rebooted stuff falters so bad that they run out of ideas to fall back on and have no other choice to crawl back to the Classic Style and the Artists who made it great. I just hope when that day comes those artists like Tim & Pat Kennedy, Gisele Legace, and Fernando Ruiz tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
...Then where would that leave us?
I say they should be passive aggressive. That way everybody wins. :)
Quote from: The Bee on April 14, 2016, 04:37:47 PM
I just hope when that day comes those artists like Tim & Pat Kennedy, Gisele Legace, and Fernando Ruiz tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
To be very, very candid, drawing for Archie was a job that had been declining badly for the past couple of years. My salary was eroding by thousands of dollars. Last year, I complained that it was becoming financially impractical for me to keep drawing for Archie. I was given a very modest ten dollar per page raise. A short while later, the number of pages I was being given was more than halved. By the very end, I was drawing two five page stories and maybe a couple of covers per month. If I was lucky, I got to write one of those stories. All this got me a little over a thousand dollars a month. As I relayed in my blog, this past January, after I'd handed in what would be my last story, I was told that I wasn't going to be getting any more work for the foreseeable future. This came from the production manager. None of the higher-ups spoke to me at all. After twenty-two years there, this was BEYOND insulting.Apparently, there isn't enough money to keep me around... although they seem to be able to afford Adam Hughes who believe me does not come cheap! So we're talking about a job that was deteriorating, paying poorly and getting worse, and where I wasn't valued or respected. Its also a job with no hope for improvement.As it stands, there is only ONE new classic story a week. A five pager. I was told very directly that Archie does not believe there is enough retailer interest to support any new classic titles. What, then, would I go back to if I was ever asked back? To eek out a five pager a month? Where is the future in that? What opportunities are there for me? It's a dead end! A bad job where I'm not valued, appreciated or respected.No. Thanks.
^^^ THIS, is the unfortunate bane of the entertainment industry. Whether it's pop music, the motion picture industry, or comics. The venerated and respected elder statesmen whose career stretches back decades are the 1%ers. In other careers, it's those with the most experience that get the top jobs with the top salaries, and no shortage of work offered. In the entertainment business, it's the newer, younger "next big thing", the fresh faces, the new names. It's a sad thing, but what can you expect... the entertainment industry's bread and butter audience has always been youth culture. Sometimes by the time the respect due actually comes, it's too late to make a difference. Sadly, I can remember back in the mid-1970s when the prevailing wisdom among comic book consumers had it that Jack Kirby was a hack, a has-been, washed-up.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2016, 12:10:56 AM
Sadly, I can remember back in the mid-1970s when the prevailing wisdom among comic book consumers had it that Jack Kirby was a hack, a has-been, washed-up.
I've been noticing this phenomena the last few years as we lose some of the Greats in our industry.
Solid reliable workhorses like Jim Aparo, Herb Trimpe and Nick Cardy are revered now after their deaths, but at the end of their lives, these guys couldn't get any work outside of commissions and convention sketches. It's only after these guys dies that all of a sudden their fans seen to roll out and sing their due praises.
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 15, 2016, 12:23:00 AM
Solid reliable workhorses like Jim Aparo, Herb Trimpe and Nick Cardy are revered now after their deaths, but at the end of their lives, these guys couldn't get any work outside of commissions and convention sketches. It's only after these guys dies that all of a sudden their fans seen to roll out and sing their due praises.
Or, not to put too fine a point on it... Dan DeCarlo. The way the comic book industry had been set up from its earliest days made it difficult to succeed on mere talent, hard work, and the number of pages produced over a long career. The comics industry was not kind to Kirby and DeCarlo in their later years. Others with lesser talents, like Bob Kane or Todd McFarlane, made out a better career by business-savvy, or the good fortune to be in the right place at the right time, and being careful when things like contracts were signed.
Can you remember back when DeCarlo was having his legal battles with ACP? Were these things discussed among the younger generation of artists & writers, or was there ever any sense of foreboding about the 'handwriting on the wall', etc? After all, this was even after such well-publicized battles of 'creator vs. company' as Siegel & Shuster vs DC and Kirby vs Marvel. Surely at ACP this must have seemed like a large and scary prospect.
Well like I stated somewhere else for the uninitiated.....
IMO, essentially the people that run Archie Comics with their business model have their heads up their asses (https://www.archiefans.com/Smileys/alive/buck2.gif)
They don't appreciate what they had.
Fernando, I didn't realize you were there for that long. :o
Wow.
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2016, 02:11:21 AM
Can you remember back when DeCarlo was having his legal battles with ACP? Were these things discussed among the younger generation of artists & writers, or was there ever any sense of foreboding about the 'handwriting on the wall', etc? After all, this was even after such well-publicized battles of 'creator vs. company' as Siegel & Shuster vs DC and Kirby vs Marvel. Surely at ACP this must have seemed like a large and scary prospect.
When I first started back in '94, the main guy at Archie... and deservedly so... was Dan DeCarlo. Very closely behind him was Stan Goldberg. They were the giants of the company and there was a sense that they were the top priority (Again, deservedly so!) and that they would always be taken care of. (HA!)
There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!
It was definitely a shock when Dan and the Company first started having their trouble. The shock, however, was tempered by the fact that Dan kept right on working. The guy was invincible! He could shake the Company down and they needed him so badly that they still gave him work. He even gave some pretty searing and candid interviews at the time and he was still working. The highest crime in Archie's eyes has always been when one of their creator's goes public. They can club you over the head and if you say "ouch" out loud, then YOU'RE the jerk. I'm not sure what exactly was the final straw for Archie if it was the actual lawsuit, the heated interviews or what but at some point they had enough and they stopped giving Dan work. When that happened, we realized that no one was safe. No one, however, was more traumatized by the overwhelmingly negative publicity than Archie itself. In many ways, this was a black eye on them that never completely went away.
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 15, 2016, 02:15:29 AM
Fernando, I didn't realize you were there for that long. :o
Wow.
Yep.
The tombstone where my Archie career is buried reads:
1994-2016
RIP
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 16, 2016, 08:29:06 AM
There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!
These are some of my favs. I wish they'd bring these back.
Look! I can draw Nu Jughead too!
::) Actually I think that looks a bit better than the current — and I'd bet you'd keep it consistent from panel to panel ;)
Quote from: irishmoxie on April 16, 2016, 11:19:02 AM
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 16, 2016, 08:29:06 AM
There was already a sense of foreboding because even then the company was trimming the fat. Books like Archie's Christmas Stocking, Archie's Spring Break Special and Betty & Veronica Spectacular were getting peeled away and we were getting worried. Brother, we had NO idea back then!
These are some of my favs. I wish they'd bring these back.
These were all 48-page Giants from the 1990s, but were mainly made up of reprint material, usually with a new lead story (and here I think Fernando actually meant to say "Betty & Veronica Summer Fun", since unlike the other two, B&V Spectacular was a regular-size ongoing title from 1992-2009 that lasted 90 issues, a decent run). Included in that same category were Josie and the Pussycats (2 issues), Reggie's Revenge (3 issues), Jughead's Baby Tales (2 issues), and Cheryl Blossom Special (4 issues). Archie's Spring Break Special lasted 5 issues (1996-2000); Archie's Christmas Stocking lasted 7 issues (1993-1999), and Betty & Veronica Summer Fun also lasted 7 (1994-2000). In a way, these were sort of a replacement for the ARCHIE GIANT SERIES which ended in 1987 (although by that time, it had ceased being an actual Giant in page count by a decade or more), and had traditionally featured those seasonal annuals like Christmas Stocking and Summer Fun. There were other occasional one-shot giants that could be considered part of this group, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Meet Archie, but B&V Summer Fun #7 (2000) was the last of these.
Barring those occasional special projects like Archie vs Predator, Archie vs Sharknado, and (hopefully sometime before the year ends) Archie Meets Ramones, it seems pretty clear that ACP is done with classic Archie in the floppy comics format. That format will be devoted to the New Riverdale and Archie Horror titles going forward, or at least that's clearly the intent on ACP's part, unless people let them know otherwise by their purchasing decisions.
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 17, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Look! I can draw Nu Jughead too!
Don't dumb yourself down, Fernando - You're much better than that! Plus you actually have real talent. ;D
Erica must have taken an abstract art class to learn how to chicken scratch. :idiot2:
Quote from: Mr.Lodge on April 17, 2016, 01:52:20 AM
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 17, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Look! I can draw Nu Jughead too!
Don't dumb yourself down, Fernando - You're much better than that! Plus you actually have real talent. ;D
Erica must have taken an abstract art class to learn how to chicken scratch. :idiot2:
That kind of scribbly artwork is perfectly acceptable for some offbeat, alternative type creator-owned independent comics. Heck, you can even look at some of the long-running newspaper comics like CATHY or DILBERT -- they're no great shakes in the artwork department, but they've been carried along for years on the strength of the basic concept and the writing.
On the other hand, sometimes working for the mainstream means you've got to temper yourself and dial it down a notch or two. Seeing Fernando's art on DIE KITTY DIE is a real eye-opener in that respect, the best work I've ever seen from him. It makes it seem like the editors at Archie Comics were holding him back from what he's really capable of. Or maybe he just put extra loving care and attention into it because Kitty is something he can call his own.
I don't have really anything to compare to because of not reading "Classic" Archie and only seeing various panels on the internet. It is definitely a different type of art style and I can see why some people would love that and hate the drastic change to where they are at now. For me though I think the art work for the most part on the new stuff has been very good. Of course there has been artists on these series that I enjoyed their work better than others and the one thing I'd like is if Archie Comics would pick one artist and stick with them on the series. I do really like the new series and am especially enjoying the stories(especially Jughead).
Quote from: Fernando Ruiz on April 15, 2016, 12:23:00 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 15, 2016, 12:10:56 AM
Sadly, I can remember back in the mid-1970s when the prevailing wisdom among comic book consumers had it that Jack Kirby was a hack, a has-been, washed-up.
I've been noticing this phenomena the last few years as we lose some of the Greats in our industry.
Solid reliable workhorses like Jim Aparo, Herb Trimpe and Nick Cardy are revered now after their deaths, but at the end of their lives, these guys couldn't get any work outside of commissions and convention sketches. It's only after these guys dies that all of a sudden their fans seen to roll out and sing their due praises.
Unfortunately true of just about everything. Prince was a joke for pretty much my entire adult life, and most of my teenage life ("LOL HIS NAME IS NOW A SYMBOL! WHAT A WEIRDO!"). Now he dies, and suddenly everyone's crawling out of the woodwork to proclaim him a lost genius who revolutionized the entire planet. He had some "legit rep" due to his Limited-Access Concerts or whatever, but he was a joke for years. Michael Jackson was the same- he went from "Creepy Probable-Pedophile Who Went Insane to Greatest Artist of All Time" as soon as they carted the body out of his mansion.