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Nov 21 2024 10:27am
DeCarlo Rules: Seriously, considering that ACP doesn't have a huge output of titles to begin with, the number of things they solicit and then cancel, never to be seen, is just ridiculous.

Nov 19 2024 12:20am
Hanna Barbera Montana: Count the facsimile for ARCHIE'S PAL JUGHEAD #78 as an imaginary comic.

Nov 13 2024 4:32pm
DeCarlo Rules: If it means getting some new Jughead stories in those digests, I'd forgive them for making Archie's name bigger.

Nov 13 2024 1:43pm
Hanna Barbera Montana: If there's any consolation, Jughead's name is larger than the Archie name on these digests.

Nov 12 2024 4:46pm
DeCarlo Rules: Oh yeah I forgot that when Milestones was "Best of the Decade" for a year, it DID have a new story in each of the five issues -- and so did the Jughead issue (#18) which followed... then they stopped doing them again.

Nov 12 2024 4:30pm
DeCarlo Rules: Jughead needs new stories. Milestones was cancelled for year, then they revived it for a year as "Best of Decade", but since #18 it's been all-Jughead. It's time to drop the Archie Milestones masthead and get some new stories in there.

Nov 11 2024 6:47pm
Tuxedo Mark: Milestones and Showcase are catch-all reprint-only digests that come out 5 times per year, opposed to the other four digest titles that come out 10 times per year and (usually) have 1 new story each.

Nov 11 2024 12:02pm
DeCarlo Rules: Does JUGHEAD DIGEST somehow sell better because it's official title is "Archie Milestones"?

Nov 10 2024 3:33pm
DeCarlo Rules: One more time -- they need to do all-new one-shots of classic Archie, Betty and Veronica, and Jughead (plus other classic characters) at least once per year.

Nov 10 2024 3:31pm
DeCarlo Rules: Shoutbox doesn't like ampersands, and punishes you for using them.

Riverdale TV Series

Started by Imnotmark, April 02, 2016, 10:30:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Thestereotypebuster

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: apple on January 07, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 10:41:40 AM
Political Correctness is a cancer. It ruins everything.
I'm sorry but I really don't see how changing the race of a couple characters is harming the source material. That's not even what "political correctness" is. The characters that are most changed from their comic counterpart are actually the ones who were kept white anyway.



???  I didn't even mention anything about race. But now that you mention it, it does harm some because the characters were actually based on real people. For example Josie was based on Decarlo's wife. But the people doing the casting are all "screw that" let's make her black, heck, let's make all three of them black. But that is a secondary thing, it doesn't affect the story (I hope). I stand by what I said about political correctness, though.(and I am not talking about race here) It needs to stop. People have become such pussies nowadays.


Maybe if you clarify what you mean by "political correctness" we could have a more constructive discussion. Because right now, "political correctness is a cancer" seems like kind of an inflammatory statement.

apple

"political correctness" usually refers to changing how you say/word/do something to avoid offending anyone. I don't really see how Riverdale is doing this at all?
<3 archie/jughead <3

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: apple on January 10, 2017, 02:11:34 AM
"political correctness" usually refers to changing how you say/word/do something to avoid offending anyone. I don't really see how Riverdale is doing this at all?

Interesting point. The biggest group (which is actually pretty small in TV viewership terms) of people likely to be offended by this show are the people who actually know the classic Archie comics and liked the characters the way they were. 90% (or better) of the viewing audience probably won't know or care. Then you can subtract the people who recognize the changes made from classic Archie comics, but aren't bothered by them.

60sBettyandReggie

Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 10, 2017, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: apple on January 07, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 10:41:40 AM
Political Correctness is a cancer. It ruins everything.
I'm sorry but I really don't see how changing the race of a couple characters is harming the source material. That's not even what "political correctness" is. The characters that are most changed from their comic counterpart are actually the ones who were kept white anyway.



???  I didn't even mention anything about race. But now that you mention it, it does harm some because the characters were actually based on real people. For example Josie was based on Decarlo's wife. But the people doing the casting are all "screw that" let's make her black, heck, let's make all three of them black. But that is a secondary thing, it doesn't affect the story (I hope). I stand by what I said about political correctness, though.(and I am not talking about race here) It needs to stop. People have become such pussies nowadays.


Maybe if you clarify what you mean by "political correctness" we could have a more constructive discussion. Because right now, "political correctness is a cancer" seems like kind of an inflammatory statement.


I was talking in general. Besides, I wasn't the first one that brought the political correctness, somebody else did. I simply stated that PC is wrong. :P

DeCarlo Rules

#379
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 10, 2017, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 10, 2017, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: apple on January 07, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 10:41:40 AM
Political Correctness is a cancer. It ruins everything.
I'm sorry but I really don't see how changing the race of a couple characters is harming the source material. That's not even what "political correctness" is. The characters that are most changed from their comic counterpart are actually the ones who were kept white anyway.



???  I didn't even mention anything about race. But now that you mention it, it does harm some because the characters were actually based on real people. For example Josie was based on Decarlo's wife. But the people doing the casting are all "screw that" let's make her black, heck, let's make all three of them black. But that is a secondary thing, it doesn't affect the story (I hope). I stand by what I said about political correctness, though.(and I am not talking about race here) It needs to stop. People have become such pussies nowadays.


Maybe if you clarify what you mean by "political correctness" we could have a more constructive discussion. Because right now, "political correctness is a cancer" seems like kind of an inflammatory statement.


I was talking in general. Besides, I wasn't the first one that brought the political correctness, somebody else did. I simply stated that PC is wrong. :P

It offends me in the New Riverdale comics when they revise Betty Cooper into a politically correct character. Seriously, every piece of dialogue out of her mouth is something critical of what someone else said or did, and how it doesn't conform to her sense of correctness. This is not the Betty Cooper I know, who is sweet and fun, smart and talented. Yes, she's concerned about real-world stuff, but she's not on a huge downer about it. The NR Betty is really a drag, not someone I'd want to be around at all. What burns me up even more is that in all ACP's rah-rah hype for the New Riverdale comics, they have the cojones to go on and on about "they are all the same characters you've known and loved, updated for a modern audience, blah blah blah". That's complete BS, and if they claim it's not, then they don't even know their own characters.

60sBettyandReggie

I know some people won't agree but I think it is so annoying how some people are all "oh this character needs to be bi, this one needs to be gay, this character needs to be asexual, etc.etc.
No, they do not need to be that. They never were. If you want characters to be gay, transexuals, lesbians, whatever, how about creating new characters. Don't try to make the straight characters something they are not.

60sBettyandReggie

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 10, 2017, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 10, 2017, 12:38:37 AM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: apple on January 07, 2017, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 07, 2017, 10:41:40 AM
Political Correctness is a cancer. It ruins everything.
I'm sorry but I really don't see how changing the race of a couple characters is harming the source material. That's not even what "political correctness" is. The characters that are most changed from their comic counterpart are actually the ones who were kept white anyway.



???  I didn't even mention anything about race. But now that you mention it, it does harm some because the characters were actually based on real people. For example Josie was based on Decarlo's wife. But the people doing the casting are all "screw that" let's make her black, heck, let's make all three of them black. But that is a secondary thing, it doesn't affect the story (I hope). I stand by what I said about political correctness, though.(and I am not talking about race here) It needs to stop. People have become such pussies nowadays.


Maybe if you clarify what you mean by "political correctness" we could have a more constructive discussion. Because right now, "political correctness is a cancer" seems like kind of an inflammatory statement.


I was talking in general. Besides, I wasn't the first one that brought the political correctness, somebody else did. I simply stated that PC is wrong. :P

It offends me in the New Riverdale comics when they revise Betty Cooper into a politically correct character. Seriously, every piece of dialogue out of her mouth is something critical of what someone else said or did, and how it doesn't conform to her sense of correctness. This is not the Betty Cooper I know, who is sweet and fun, smart and talented. Yes, she's concerned about real-world stuff, but she's not on a huge downer about it. The NR Betty is really a drag, not someone I'd want to be around at all. What burns me up even more is that in all ACP's rah-rah hype for the New Riverdale comics, they have the cojones to go on and on about "they are all the same characters you've known and loved, updated for a modern audience, blah blah blah". That's complete BS, and if they claim it's not, then they don't even know their own characters.


Well ACP seems to be trying really hard to erase everything that Classic Archie used to be. You know, like  how they dropped the house style and fired all their long-time talented artists  >:(

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 10, 2017, 11:03:10 PM
I know some people won't agree but I think it is so annoying how some people are all "oh this character needs to be bi, this one needs to be gay, this character needs to be asexual, etc.etc.
No, they do not need to be that. They never were. If you want characters to be gay, transexuals, lesbians, whatever, how about creating new characters. Don't try to make the straight characters something they are not.

I guess you can never be 100% sure about Jughead, though. There are some stories where the label mysogynist would not be inaccurate (although they're mostly older ones), and some stories where he dates girls like Debbie Dalton, Joani Jumpp, or Anita Chavita quite happily, with no food reward motive (and even earlier, there were Cheryl* and Lori, and a magic hatpin that made Juggy into a chick magnet). In fact, I'm pretty sure that Debbie and Joani got interjected into Jughead's title specifically as an editorial reaction to rumors that Jughead might be gay. Things have changed a lot since the late 1980s, when I don't think anyone had ever even heard the term 'asexual'.

*No, not THAT Cheryl!

60sBettyandReggie

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 10, 2017, 11:03:10 PM
I know some people won't agree but I think it is so annoying how some people are all "oh this character needs to be bi, this one needs to be gay, this character needs to be asexual, etc.etc.
No, they do not need to be that. They never were. If you want characters to be gay, transexuals, lesbians, whatever, how about creating new characters. Don't try to make the straight characters something they are not.

I guess you can never be 100% sure about Jughead, though. There are some stories where the label mysogynist would not be inaccurate (although they're mostly older ones), and some stories where he dates girls like Debbie Dalton, Joani Jumpp, or Anita Chavita quite happily, with no food reward motive (and even earlier, there were Cheryl* and Lori, and a magic hatpin that made Juggy into a chick magnet). In fact, I'm pretty sure that Debbie and Joani got interjected into Jughead's title specifically as an editorial reaction to rumors that Jughead might be gay. Things have changed a lot since the late 1980s, when I don't think anyone had ever even heard the term 'asexual'.

*No, not THAT Cheryl!


True. Juggie was always a mystery. Still I never really thought of him as being gay or asexual. He was just his own person and that's it.

DeCarlo Rules

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 11, 2017, 12:53:55 AM
Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on January 10, 2017, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on January 10, 2017, 11:03:10 PM
I know some people won't agree but I think it is so annoying how some people are all "oh this character needs to be bi, this one needs to be gay, this character needs to be asexual, etc.etc.
No, they do not need to be that. They never were. If you want characters to be gay, transexuals, lesbians, whatever, how about creating new characters. Don't try to make the straight characters something they are not.

I guess you can never be 100% sure about Jughead, though. There are some stories where the label mysogynist would not be inaccurate (although they're mostly older ones), and some stories where he dates girls like Debbie Dalton, Joani Jumpp, or Anita Chavita quite happily, with no food reward motive (and even earlier, there were Cheryl* and Lori, and a magic hatpin that made Juggy into a chick magnet). In fact, I'm pretty sure that Debbie and Joani got interjected into Jughead's title specifically as an editorial reaction to rumors that Jughead might be gay. Things have changed a lot since the late 1980s, when I don't think anyone had ever even heard the term 'asexual'.

*No, not THAT Cheryl!


True. Juggie was always a mystery. Still I never really thought of him as being gay or asexual. He was just his own person and that's it.

I always felt the same. Jughead is so one-of-a-kind that he resists any attempts at quantification or labels.

apple

hm interesting how going against the norm, being different, and "going your own way" absolves you of all sexuality.


Like in language. We have words. That mean things. You can say you don't fit into any category all day long but in all honesty, you still actually do.

If Jughead had shown interest in girls none of you would be avoiding calling him straight just because weird people don't fit into labels. But whatever.
<3 archie/jughead <3

Thestereotypebuster

I understand the concern with keeping the characters' personalities true to their original characterizations. However, keep in mind that Archie comics is made to reflect teenage life--in whatever era they're being printed.
Just look at all the changes that have happened since they were first printed in the forties. Just like pop culture references have to be updated for the new era, so do cultural aspects. I mean, we wouldn't want stories about Archie driving a jalopy and the characters making jokes about women drivers now a days, would we?
These comics are about teens. And not everybody's teenage experience is the same. This is why, sometimes, labels ARE important. But you're right, it's not the labels others put on us, but the labels we put on ourselves, that really matter. That's why it's so important when a character like Jughead, one of the most popular characters in history, a STAPLE of pop culture, says "I don't get crushes", because someone might read it and think "he's like me" just like some of you might have even you read your first Archie comic and thought, "wow, this Jughead guy just loves to eat and sleep! He's got the right idea!"
And consider: these new adaptations haven't really changed who the characters are, not at the core. Yes, Betty is much more vocal about social justice issues, but this is just an effect of, as y'all mentioned, her kind and caring nature. She is very empathetic and it's only natural that she should care about social issues.
And yes, Jughead is asexual. But this is nothing new. Jughead's anyways been adverse to dating. Besides his passion for burgers, it's one of his most iconic characteristics. It's just been characterized differently through the years. At one point he was a "woman hater". At one point he was dating Archie's future descendent ( ??? ?). The point is, this isn't even the most radical change to Jughead's characterization. It's not even a change. It's just an update in terminology.

apple

Quote from: Thestereotypebuster on January 11, 2017, 09:29:26 PM
The point is, this isn't even the most radical change to Jughead's characterization. It's not even a change. It's just an update in terminology.
^^^ excellently put!!
<3 archie/jughead <3

Upsiditus

The characters had small wardrobes in Archie's Weird Mysteries, but I didn't see any problems with the animation.  The stories often didn't resemble the comic books and I didn't personally care for "the weird" element most of the time.

60sBettyandReggie

Quote from: apple on January 11, 2017, 09:06:47 PM
hm interesting how going against the norm, being different, and "going your own way" absolves you of all sexuality.


Like in language. We have words. That mean things. You can say you don't fit into any category all day long but in all honesty, you still actually do.

If Jughead had shown interest in girls none of you would be avoiding calling him straight just because weird people don't fit into labels. But whatever.
um, but he has shown interest in girls  ::)
I personally am not avoiding it. JUGHEAD IS STRAIGHT! There  ;)

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