Quote from: daren on May 20, 2016, 11:29:02 PM
I doubt it, they're not putting it in the publicity now and they weren't able to find a deaf actor like they wanted.


They're being vague about what his sexuality will be, the closest they've come to an answer is what Cole Sprouse says here:


http://riverdaily.tumblr.com/post/144621196202/cole-sprouse-answering-whether-or-not-jughead-will


They'll probably try to please everyone by having him seem to be a biromantic asexual who tries dating everyone and finally decides in the last episode that he's aromantic.

Thanks for the info, daren! You're awesome. I'm still on the fence about aromantic asexual Jughead.

Quote from: daren on May 20, 2016, 11:29:02 PM

Quote from: Thrillho on May 20, 2016, 10:24:37 PM

Relevant out of context panels

To think of all the people who say Veronica never helps the needy!

  *screaming* If I had a drink, I'd have spit out.

Quote from: Thrillho on May 21, 2016, 01:44:41 AM

Thanks for the info, daren! You're awesome. I'm still on the fence about aromantic asexual Jughead.

I like to think of him as aromantic but I know he isn't completely. There's been at least ten stories or so where he's heteroromantic, not much but even a small amount makes a difference. If Veronica had ten lesbian romances in her history we wouldn't call her hetero, and if Kevin fell in love with a girl we'd probably call him bi.


Actually when you think about it Veronica would be the best mate for asexual Jughead, there's a lot of stories where she's like this:







She's still horny sometimes but she's less interested in physical affection than any of them, besides Jughead...well and maybe Dilton. Sorry Veronica, you might lose Jughead to the superbrain! 

Dilton has always been very interested — just totally clueless about what to do about it, and most girls don't get beyond his intimidating intellect or small stature to help him out ...

Quote from: invisifan on May 21, 2016, 09:30:09 PM
Dilton has always been very interested — just totally clueless about what to do about it, and most girls don't get beyond his intimidating intellect or small stature to help him out ...

Except for those Joke Book 1 page and 1/2 page gags where the joke is always that there's some girl trying to cozy up to him and he's totally oblivious that she's inviting his affection. For some reason that one gag idea has been subjected to dozens of variations.

I liked it when he dated Cheryl for a bit.

Quote from: daren on May 21, 2016, 07:40:36 PM
I like to think of him as aromantic but I know he isn't completely. There's been at least ten stories or so where he's heteroromantic, not much but even a small amount makes a difference.

Only TEN? There's way more than that. A drop in the bucket compared to the preponderance of Jughead stories that show the complete opposite, but still. There's almost 10 stories with him showing serious romantic attraction to January McAndrews alone. Plus all the other girls people would like to forget about, like Debbie & Dilly Dalton, Joani Jumpp, Anita Chavita, Sandy Sanchez and Sadie Cameron. Those last two are one-time appearances, but there must be dozens of random short stories with girls that Jughead was attracted to for that one story only.

Quote from: daren on May 21, 2016, 07:40:36 PM

I like to think of him as aromantic but I know he isn't completely. There's been at least ten stories or so where he's heteroromantic, not much but even a small amount makes a difference. If Veronica had ten lesbian romances in her history we wouldn't call her hetero, and if Kevin fell in love with a girl we'd probably call him bi.

Good points. Jughead has had plenty of heterosexual romances, and I agree with DeCarlo Rules here, it's way more than ten. So I guess it is kind of odd many are firm about him being aromantic.



My ambivalence comes from the fact that it has been explicitly stated in the new Jughead that he is asexual, and that has less to do with me being against aromantic Jughead and more about me being a bit protective of classic Archie. I am 100% supportive of the reboots but one of things I loved about classic Archie was that you could find stories that fit in with stuff you liked, for example stories that supported the idea of Betty/Reggie or Jughead/Veronica (the most popular pairings here), or you could find stories that supported the opposite, if that was your thing.


I guess a new writer can come in and have Jughead have his sexual awakening but I think that would let a lot of people down. Having Jughead definitively say he's asexual (and I think Zdarsky means aromantic too) shuts the door on a lot of storylines.

Zdarsky says in a tweet that he thinks Jughead is "asexual with aromantic leanings" and that if Jughead was older he'd probably make him asexual but not aromantic. Yeah a lot of people wouldnt like it if Jughead started dating in the reboot, unfortunately that book probably won't last long enough for his sexuality to matter. Someone posted the sales figures recently and I'd guess it's only got a few years left. I'd like to think the tv show will help but I doubt it will much. 


Even as bad as things are for classic Archie right now, that's probably the version with the best chance of surviving, maybe with some changes and hopefully another 32 pager someday. I don't know if ACP will ever call classic Jughead asexual but I guess it would be a good idea, it would give some representation without changing anything about him since "asexual" as I guess you know covers everything from aromantics to demisexuals and occasional primary sexual attraction (classic Archie wouldnt be obvious about that now, but in the future they might pull anything).


But yeah, ACP would never make classic Jughead strictly aromantic for the reason you said, it cuts off potential stories. I don't think even most advocates of asexual Jughead want that with all the Jughead ship art I've seen them post lately. I'd be happy with all-aro classic Jughead but I'm okay with almost all aro since most people want him to have some romantic potential.




-//------


Okay, I went looking for Jughead/Veronica fan art, there isn't any, but I found this:







Bob Montana didn't intend for Jughead to be completely aromantic. That clinches it, creator intent counts for a lot with me, not everything but a lot.


I wonder why there's no Jughead Veronica fan art, it seems like a popular ship? 

Quote from: Thrillho on May 22, 2016, 02:23:20 PM
My ambivalence comes from the fact that it has been explicitly stated in the new Jughead that he is asexual, and that has less to do with me being against aromantic Jughead and more about me being a bit protective of classic Archie. I am 100% supportive of the reboots but one of things I loved about classic Archie was that you could find stories that fit in with stuff you liked, for example stories that supported the idea of Betty/Reggie or Jughead/Veronica (the most popular pairings here), or you could find stories that supported the opposite, if that was your thing.

You need to put the bulk of classic Archie stories into historical perspective to understand the lack of continuity. Prior to the early 1970s, when ARCHIE ANNUAL became ARCHIE COMICS DIGEST, only a tiny fraction of ACP's annual output of stories contained any reprints. In that time period, the audience was assumed to be kids, and was assumed to completely turn over every five years or so. Writers then were approaching every single story as a complete stand-alone episode, with no connection to any other story. Only the most basic knowledge of information about the characters was assumed on the part of the reader.

Thus, you got stories like the one where Archie and Jughead are looking, acting, and talking like beatniks, for no reason ever explained in the story. In the next story, they're not beatniks, they're acting like their normal selves, but three years later you get a story where Betty is acting like a beatnik (again, no explanation offered) and Archie and Jughead are their normal selves (with no reference to the earlier story about them ever having been beatniks themselves). There was an assumed cartoon reality there where almost anything could happen in a single story and remain contained to that story with no ramifications extending to the stories which followed. This logic continued to apply even when there was an entire series of stories (like the ones where Archie and Jughead become superheroes Pureheart the Powerful and Captain Hero, or were secret agents for P.O.P.), yet outside of their own titles, no reader was expected to wonder why Archie didn't deal with a situation in some other story by simply turning into Pureheart and solving his problem.

Now we have an older audience of readers that wants and expects continuity from issue to issue, and between different titles that feature the same characters as well. Not only are the reboots accounting for that expectation on the part of the reader, they're also taking into account that those same readers expect a greater level of realism in handling the characters -- less "cartoon reality". All of this is largely accepted by today's comic readers as a great improvement over the "elastic"/changeable quality of the characters in earlier stories, but I'm convinced that removing that freedom from the writers also impoverishes the spectrum of the type of stories that can be told using the same basic characters. It's one of the essential built-in charms of those earlier classic Archie stories.

It's true. I wish we could have both but classic somewhat discontinuous Archie is way more important.

Quote from: daren on May 23, 2016, 03:57:06 AM
It's true. I wish we could have both but classic somewhat discontinuous Archie is way more important.

I forgot to add that after the 1987 volume 2 'soft reboot' (so soft it went undetected by most readers apart from the numbering), continuity was not only allowed but seemingly encouraged. Yet even so, ACP didn't totally abandon the earlier flexibility of cartoon reality, so in a way, you got the benefits of both, by not applying the idea of 'continuity' TOO strictly -- but this period is where you first began to see footnotes acknowledging the events of previous stories.

Note, for example, that this is the period where stories too at-variance with 'standard Archie' became specifically delineated as "fictional" -- a play put on by The Mighty Archie Art Players, where previously, the exact same type of story (taking place in another time period, or parodying a movie or book) would have just appeared with no attempt to justify their anomalous nature.

Quote from: daren on May 23, 2016, 03:11:14 AM
I wonder why there's no Jughead Veronica fan art, it seems like a popular ship? 

I did some Jug/Ronnie fan art stuff.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 23, 2016, 05:58:56 AM

Quote from: daren on May 23, 2016, 03:57:06 AM
It's true. I wish we could have both but classic somewhat discontinuous Archie is way more important.

I forgot to add that after the 1987 volume 2 'soft reboot' (so soft it went undetected by most readers apart from the numbering), continuity was not only allowed but seemingly encouraged. Yet even so, ACP didn't totally abandon the earlier flexibility of cartoon reality, so in a way, you got the benefits of both, by not applying the idea of 'continuity' TOO strictly -- but this period is where you first began to see footnotes acknowledging the events of previous stories.

Note, for example, that this is the period where stories too at-variance with 'standard Archie' became specifically delineated as "fictional" -- a play put on by The Mighty Archie Art Players, where previously, the exact same type of story (taking place in another time period, or parodying a movie or book) would have just appeared with no attempt to justify their anomalous nature.

The whole cartoon reality thing (as you define it — I'd really look for a different term though, that one's taken) applied to comics in general until the Silver Age when Marvel especially, and DC more hesitantly, began to do footnotes & backrefs to establish continuity ... Archie was just a little late to the game ... and DC frequently branded soon of their better stories which would have substantially changed the status quo as "imaginary" (where later they'd get an "Elseworlds" brand) ...

Hot Ronnie = hot lunch 

More for the Jughead/Veronica feud ship thread. 









So who's Betty's lunch date? 

Quote from: daren on May 23, 2016, 03:11:14 AM
...I wonder why there's no Jughead Veronica fan art, it seems like a popular ship? 

From what I've seen online, the Jughead/Betty ship is more popular?