Quote from: daren on April 21, 2016, 11:16:23 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 18, 2016, 12:46:48 AM

Quote from: daren on April 17, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
Yeah but Veronica is causing the conflict, it's indirect if it's supposed to be about Archie. Wouldn't it be better to say Mrs. Cooper instead of Mr. Cooper too?

Veronica can be demanding and even rude at times, but even she wouldn't talk to to the adult Mrs. Cooper that way on the telephone. I can't imagine why you'd think she would.

Because this whole story was posted on the old forum. Yes it is Veronica on the other end of the phone. This is from the the period when some writers wrote her being one step removed from the wicked witch of the west so that shouldn't be a surprise.

Do you know where I can find the whole story (or give me a title or something)? That is outrageous behavior even for Veronica. Maybe not in the real world where teenagers really do shout at their parents (nevermind other people's parents), but this is Riverdale, where teenagers actually respect some boundary lines. The weird thing is that judging from the way Alice Cooper is drawn here, it doesn't look like the story even fits into the time period where Veronica's behavior was completely out of control and over-the-top (the 1970s, mainly). Alice looks like she's from the late 80s or even the 90s, when the moms were gradually allowed to look less like grandmothers (they all slimmed down and lost weight and just generally looked younger, with only Mrs. Lodge retaining the silver-haired look).

On the other hand, I can recall several stories where Hal Cooper gets upset about the idea that Archie (whose reputation as a Casanova is obviously known to Mr. Cooper, who was a teenage boy once himself) might be alone and unsupervised with Betty, whom he's also well aware goes all weak in the knees whenever she even thinks about Archie.

No sorry it was on the old forum so its all gone now and I never noticed the title, all I can tell you is Veronica called to talk to Betty and freaked when she heard Archie was in Betty's room then I think she goes over to the Coopers'. The writers were still writing Veronica as a bitch in the '80s so I'm not surprised.

Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.

So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.

So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.

It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 29, 2016, 02:38:57 AM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.

So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.

It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.

I wish they would have brought back a bit of her craziness once in a while, just to add a little spice. I love her either way, but it was very entertaining to see her coming up with wild and crazy schemes.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 29, 2016, 02:02:04 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 29, 2016, 02:38:57 AM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 08:31:15 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on April 28, 2016, 04:11:57 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 28, 2016, 01:08:33 PM
Didn't Veronica calm down once Dan Parent took over? Or did it happen before. By the way, I prefer the old Veronica.

When BETTY AND ME started, that was the beginning of sweet and nice Betty, and the beginning of the end of feisty, wily schemer Betty. Similarly, when Veronica got her own comic, they had to tone down some of her more outrageous aspects to make her more likable and sympathetic. Same thing happened to Cheryl Blossom when she got her own comic. I guess the takeaway here is if you like this or that character, then just pray that they don't get their own comic book.

So Betty changed in the late 60s? Many stories from Betty and Me still had a "crazy" Betty, but I guess those stories were from the first issues. Okay and then Veronica got nicer in the 80s, when, like I said, Dan Parent took over.

It was a slightly slower evolution for Betty, but you begin to see it more easily by tracking the change in "Betty's Diary" stories. The early ones (pre- and early BETTY AND ME) are short gag strips, outrageous exaggerations of small incidents that occur, magnified through the fish-eye lens of Betty's mind to imbue the slightest event as fraught with implications of Archie's burning desire for her. Frankly, they make Betty look like some kind of nutcase who lives in a world of fantasy. Some of them even seem a little cruel, like the other kids are laughing at Betty's naivete behind her back. But gradually, the later Betty's Diary stories become more grounded in realism and portray her more sympathetically, and concentrate on showing her sweet side. At a certain point in the 1970s, Al Hartley took over as the primary Betty's Diary writer, and the change is complete. Kathleen Webb solidified that in longer stories later, and in the actual BETTY'S DIARY spinoff comic book. The changes in the regular Betty stories paralleled that evolution, and perhaps even ran ahead of it in some ways, but essentially, by the late 60s that wily schemer Betty has pretty well disappeared.

I wish they would have brought back a bit of her craziness once in a while, just to add a little spice. I love her either way, but it was very entertaining to see her coming up with wild and crazy schemes.

It's not just Betty though. There's this general shift in emphasis to most of the stories, where once past the mid-1960s, the wilder, woolier, and whackier type of Archie stories just fades. Things had to gear up in the late 1960s when the number of titles increased, and there was also a parallel with the same issue of parental concerns that affected television animation at that time. They knew that parents had their eyes on them and were more aware of the comics than ever before. ACP had a lot riding on those animated cartoons for the better part of a decade, from the late 60s through the late 70s.