Quote from: steveinthecity on September 20, 2016, 12:29:37 AM
Edit:  Just wanted to add - I don't have a list of all Kevin's appearances, but I checked the Cheryl list and she appeared in 32 stories in 33 months(Oct '82- Jun '85) before she disappeared into the ether.  She was a central part of all those stories, and I'm guessing that's probably double what Kevin had between Veronica and his solo title.  I'm in agreement with your post.

It could be argued that ALL of Kevin's significant appearances were book-length stories, either in VERONICA or his own title (which essentially replaced VERONICA). 21 issues in total. The remainder of his appearances were brief cameos (most of them in shorts), unless you're counting "alternate Kevins" appearing in LIFE WITH ARCHIE/AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE. Cheryl has easily topped that number by appearing in (at minimum) 5 or 6 times as many pages.

Quote from: Bluto on September 20, 2016, 10:27:23 AM
Veronica: B. I also like it when she is portrayed as basically the fun-loving, attractive sex object as she was sometimes in the '50s through the '70s. During this era, she often was no more of a jerk than Betty or Midge was.

That's an interesting POV, one which took me by surprise. In what way (or what story situations) do you perceive Betty or Midge as being a jerk?

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on September 20, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
That's an interesting POV, one which took me by surprise. In what way (or what story situations) do you perceive Betty or Midge as being a jerk?

I'm not speaking for Bluto, but I think Midge can be a jerk by the way she manipulates Reggie despite knowing Moose will knock him into left field. Yeah, at times she's just standing there, entertaining Reggie's come ons, but in others she's certainly not a passive participant when Moose catches them and she never shows remorse or comes to Reggie's aid. 

I don't dislike Midge, just addressing what I consider a pretty big failing in her behavior.

Quote from: steveinthecity on September 20, 2016, 11:19:24 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on September 20, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
That's an interesting POV, one which took me by surprise. In what way (or what story situations) do you perceive Betty or Midge as being a jerk?

I'm not speaking for Bluto, but I think Midge can be a jerk by the way she manipulates Reggie despite knowing Moose will knock him into left field. Yeah, at times she's just standing there, entertaining Reggie's come ons, but in others she's certainly not a passive participant when Moose catches them and she never shows remorse or comes to Reggie's aid. 

I don't dislike Midge, just addressing what I consider a pretty big failing in her behavior.

"Manipulates" might be a little bit skewed. That would tend to imply that Reggie is being victimized somehow, or tricked into acting against his will, and I've never seen a story that reads that way to me. (Of course, I'm talking strictly about Midge here -- Jughead does that sort of thing to Reggie on a regular basis.)

On the other hand, it never seemed to me that there was any general agreement among the writers as far as the handling of Midge's character was concerned. Some stories seem to say that she can easily get Moose to do whatever she wants him to, while in others, it seems like she's almost a prisoner of Moose's obsession for her. One thing that does seem fairly consistent in the early stories is that Moose treats her like a possession -- he's constantly referring to her as "MY Midge".

One possible interpretation of her behavior is that Midge is genuinely not immune to Reggie's charms (such as they are), but on the other hand, if he's unsuccessful in being stealthy about it, there's little she can do without admitting her complicity and possibly sharing the resulting fury of Moose's wrath. Of course, the problem being there's nowhere further you can take that nebulous idea in a classic Archie comic story, because there's certainly nothing 'comic' about the implications. At the very least however, it tends to imply that Midge (strictly in the early stories, when a physical beating was a very real, and not merely implied, consequence of Moose's anger) is nowhere near as committed to Moose as he is to her, or that his very possessiveness is what's driving her to sneak around behind his back. And if she fails to defend Reggie in any way when they're caught, maybe it's the only way she can maintain any plausible deniability of her own guilt. It also makes it an interesting Chicken-or-the Egg question as to whether Moose's seeming paranoia actually has a very real underlying cause -- or is it Moose's paranoia that is causing Midge to behave that way?

Quote from: steveinthecity on September 20, 2016, 11:19:24 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on September 20, 2016, 03:19:38 PM
That's an interesting POV, one which took me by surprise. In what way (or what story situations) do you perceive Betty or Midge as being a jerk?

I'm not speaking for Bluto, but I think Midge can be a jerk by the way she manipulates Reggie despite knowing Moose will knock him into left field. Yeah, at times she's just standing there, entertaining Reggie's come ons, but in others she's certainly not a passive participant when Moose catches them and she never shows remorse or comes to Reggie's aid. 

I don't dislike Midge, just addressing what I consider a pretty big failing in her behavior.

Steve, you summed up my feelings exactly!  I was thinking of the stories where Midge is a willing participant in the smooching with Reggie and sometimes even helps him plan the smooching times. I have a few such stories in my collection, but I unfortunately don't have time to dig through it and find them. But in the '60s-'70s era, they are there. As DeCarlo Rules pointed out Midge's characterization was inconsistent back then.

Archie: The so called ladies man who is actually an idiot and is always getting tangled up in stupid relationship triangles.


Jughead: The lazy, moocher who loves to eat a ton a food.


Veronica: The spoiled rotten brat who gets taught a lesson at the end of stories.


Betty: Kind Hearted Betty who loves to bake cookies and just be a goody-goody all the time. Even if it does make me puke sometimes.


Reggie: The friend who loves to prank all the time. I actually don't think he is evil to his friends he just likes to have some fun at their expense.

ARCHIE: A) The scheming bastard of the 1940s; B) The befuddled, clumsy loser of most other eras; C) The all-around nice guy.

The other two iterations of Archie are entertaining, but they aren't the kind of guy I'd want as a friend. And I feel like that's who Archie is supposed to be- the kind of kid you could see yourself saying hi to in the hallways. While A and B are fun to read, they usually over exaggerate Archie to the extreme. Nice Archie still isn't perfect- he is still clumsy and in detention, and he certainly isn't nice when it comes to dating Betty and Veronica- but it is the best version of him, and my favorite one.


JUGHEAD: A) The woman-hating, somewhat-vicious schemer of the old days- constantly belittled and insulted women; B) The Jughead seen in the NUMEROUS "Jughead gets a girl" storylines (Joanie & Debbie, Anita Chavita, Sandy Sanchez, etc.); C) The anti-romance character who can still hang out with women (such as his friendship with Betty).

Definitely my favorite Jughead. Some of my favorite Jug/Archie stories are the ones where Archie has screwed Betty over, and Jughead helps him see the error of his ways. If he was so opposed to women, he wouldn't try to help her out. The Jughead-Betty friendship is one of my favorite platonic pairings, and watching them interact is always refreshing. The only B Jug story that I've read is the New Look Sandy story, and that Jughead was overly athletic looking, but otherwise mostly the same.


VERONICA: A) Straight-up selfish villainess ('40s & Mark Waid Reboot); B) The Jerk with a Heart of Gold character (mostly seen in and after the '60s); C) The nicer, more down-to-earth one of the '90s-2000s era (where her major conflicts are things like figuring out which charity to pursue).


Somewhere between B and C Veronica is my favorite. I don't like the extremely vindictive, evil Veronica that exists, but I still prefer her to be somewhat snooty and "above it all" in her mind. The Ronnie who learns a lesson after acting out is my favorite one...I suppose that's a more modern version of her. When it comes to her and Betty, I like it more when they are truly best friends, who are exasperated with each other because they aren't a perfect pair. Ronnie doesn't share most of Betty's interests, and stories that show that she does are incorrect.


BETTY COOPER: A) The scheming, somewhat-dim loser ('40s & '50s); B) The All-Around Girl-Next-Door Nice Girl Tomboy (most eras)


Easiest choice by far. Old Betty can be somewhat scary. Modern Betty, while sometimes portrayed as too perfect, is easy to look up to and aspire to be. Her hangup on Archie is upsetting, and stories that show her dating other guys or just being his friend are nice to read. (I would prefer Archie with Betty over with Veronica, but I prefer Betty with someone else over Second Fiddle Betty.)

REGGIE MANTLE: A) Outright villain whom just about everyone hates; B) Jerk With a Heart of Gold, who still hangs out with the gang.


Reggie pranking stories- where he is usually the loser in the end- are entertaining. But like with Ronnie, purely evil Reggie can get annoying and feel over the top. The Reggie who knows when to finally be serious and help out is my favorite one.

CHERYL BLOSSOM: A) The super-selfish and obnoxious villain ('80s & her return); B) Veronica-Lite "Actually deep-down really nice" character (from her solo book).

Cheryl was brought into Riverdale purely to wreck havoc, and she does a great job. I don't like too much Cheryl- let her live in Pembrooke, and bring her in when things are too quiet in Riverdale- but the nasty Cheryl is quite interesting. B Cheryl is just too much like Veronica, so that they are almost the same character.

Hi Shuester!   Thanks for your input and welcome to the boards!   

This is going to be tough to answer.


OK for the loveable but also dislikable Archie Andrews I really like him when he is falling all over himself and pretty much as hard as he tries everything seems to go wrong throughout the majority of the story. I love the stories when he gets the boot out of the Lodge Mansion.


It is much easier for me to come up with something I do not like about Betty Cooper and that is that she is unrealistic too good. I like her much more when she is scheming against Veronica to get her mitts on Archie. To me it makes for more of a fun Betty and a fun story.


Now for Veronica Lodge who is probably my 2nd favorite character of the main characters. The thing I really like about Veronica is although she is extremely spoiled which I feel is not fully her fault, but she also does share her wealth with her friends. How many times have Betty and the rest of the gang hopped abroad Daddy's Jet or Yacht to go all over the world. That is pretty amazing about her.


Reggie Mantle always seems to be the character that people love to hate. I don't see that in him at all. Sure he plays pranks all the time on his friends, but heck I remember growing up with my friends and we did the exact same thing and these guys were my true friends. I think he is a bit immature at times with his pranks, but what teenager hasn't been. Deep down I think he cares for all of his friends.


Now to my favorite character Jughead Jones where there is so many things I like about him. I absolutely love his sense of adventure and imagination. Of course who wouldn't love to be able to eat like a glutton and stay as thin as his is. Also love that he loves to relax, but also in the Time Police he is very active in helping out in those stories. As for the Lady Hater this is probably my least favorite thing about Jughead. I was glad that in Life With Archie he did end up with Midge.

Quote from: Jabroniville on June 20, 2016, 01:46:28 AM
It's generally been known to happen that the Archie characters have shifted greatly over the years- often becoming much nicer (and perhaps more well-rounded) characters at the expense of conflict and humor. Whether or not this is a good thing is a matter of debate.

So I'm curious as to which version of the following characters do you prefer?



ARCHIE: A) The scheming bastard of the 1940s; B) The befuddled, clumsy loser of most other eras; C) The all-around nice guy.


JUGHEAD: A) The woman-hating, somewhat-vicious schemer of the old days- constantly belittled and insulted women; B) The Jughead seen in the NUMEROUS "Jughead gets a girl" storylines (Joanie & Debbie, Anita Chavita, Sandy Sanchez, etc.); C) The anti-romance character who can still hang out with women (such as his friendship with Betty).


VERONICA: A) Straight-up selfish villainess ('40s & Mark Waid Reboot); B) The Jerk with a Heart of Gold character (mostly seen in and after the '60s); C) The nicer, more down-to-earth one of the '90s-2000s era (where her major conflicts are things like figuring out which charity to pursue).


BETTY COOPER: A) The scheming, somewhat-dim loser ('40s & '50s); B) The All-Around Girl-Next-Door Nice Girl Tomboy (most eras)


REGGIE MANTLE: A) Outright villain whom just about everyone hates; B) Jerk With a Heart of Gold, who still hangs out with the gang.


CHERYL BLOSSOM: A) The super-selfish and obnoxious villain ('80s & her return); B) Veronica-Lite "Actually deep-down really nice" character (from her solo book).

Class A, across the board!

People who show their character flaws are comedy gold!