Archiver deleted all the shouts in the shotbox now and is trying to act like he didn't do it. 

Quote from: swiss watch on April 06, 2016, 08:28:41 PM
If they do, they'll probably just shrug because that's the status quo in Riverdale. Moose is going to have a 'soft spot for milfs.' Reggie asks Archie if he 'tapped any milf ass this summer.' I'd be amazed if Jughead isn't in on it too.

Someone in the Riverdale thread said something about Archie Comics wondering what they would do if the show doesn't succeed, but how will it help if it does succeed? This show is so different from their backlog of stories and even from the reboot, there won't be many new crossover fans from tv, if there ever are many for shows based on comics. And what about when the show ends in, at the most, seven years?

I don't think it will get picked up for a full season.  They're probably banking on the comic book TV trend, but that's a super hero trend.  If it does, yes, you're correct, the benefit for the IP overall is definitely negative.  If they made Roberto "Chief Operating Officer" like you said, that is really bewildering to me if these are his "awesome" ideas.  If Archie was a public company, they probably would have taken it away from current management at this point.

Guys, I made a second thread.  If you saw what Archiver said about BR, please back me up there too, since the shout was deleted:

http://www.archiefans.com/feedbacksupport/previously-banned-member-trolling-shoutboxmember/

QuoteWhat a weird feature to let anyone delete things from the shoutbox. Wonder why that is even built into the forum.

The shoutbox permissions are messed up so everyone is a moderator or something.

Quote from: BettyReggie on April 06, 2016, 05:18:48 PM
What does this topic mean Archie x Ms. Gundy? Does it mean he loves her.

[spoiler] They're going to be having an affair in the Rivderdale pilot.[/spoiler]

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 06, 2016, 06:02:45 PM

QuoteIsn't that the writer who said he never read old Archie Comics but still called them "conservative"? Remember what I said about these writers?

True. He is that 'I'm not familiar with Archie but I don't like it because it's a  saccharine, un-self-examined, humorless Happy Days. However it has transformed from conservative to progressive which means for the first time I can read it and make it to the end' guy.

This is why internet nerd media SUCKS.  It's ran by idiots that don't care about the stuff they write about, politicize EVERYTHING and hold the regular fans in disregard.  It's sad though that Archie Comics probably takes this stuff at face value, producing a positive feedback loop because they are viewed as "progressive" now, which means they'll never receive critical feedback or the fans' point of view.  At least for other industries, you can at least get a decent objective assessment of what is or isn't wrong with the product or business model.

I have a prediction.  Jason Blossom is dead because Cheryl killed him because he was molesting her.  If you get into the hackneyed mind of Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa that he used to create Edgydale, it becomes obvious.

QuoteAfter re-reading this, I have got to think this is a joke, right? I really can't be true. The person who wrote the article is messing around with our minds, right? .....

Isn't that the writer who said he never read old Archie Comics but still called them "conservative"?  Remember what I said about these writers?

Quote from: swiss watch on April 05, 2016, 07:34:04 PM
But seriously, I do agree with the sentiment behind this thread, and I can't understand why Archie is allowing Aguirre-Sacasa to take the property in a direction that will probably hurt the company in the long run by fooling people into thinking the squeaky clean old Archie is boring.

Because the current CEO, at least the one in control, doesn't like the comics either.  He ran them down as moldy and olfashioned in a press blurb before they dumped the house style.  But apparently, he knows what's best for us fans!

Also I think we need three more cheers for writing legend Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa for changing Jughead from a food fanatic to a coffee fiend!

Huzzah!
Huzzah!
Huzzah!

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on April 06, 2016, 12:41:14 PM

Quote from: old_jughead on April 06, 2016, 01:04:23 AM

QuoteExtremely curious to see what they do with Jugheads Hat.. Wondering If they will end up scraping it- and if so tables will be flipped.

Probably will be scrapped. I don't see how it can work in this interpretation of the comics. Maybe it will just be a regular beanie that he wears.

I doubt he will be wearing his crown hat.  And this new "Jughead" is not even into food anymore. They are changing him to be addicted to coffee instead

Some time ago, I predicted they would eventually make him into a vegan.  Does he drink his coffee with non-dairy creamer?   

Quote
You could replace "diversity" with "a more accurate representation of real life in current times", my wording is just more concise.

"current times." I asked you specifically to put out an argument that doesn't use those kind of meaningless rhetorical terms.  Can you not do it?

Also, that's not what diversity even means.  Diversity is the opposite of homogeneity.  It has no inherent positive or negative qualities. 

And how is having 5 white characters in a made up story inaccurate in regards to anything current?  Do 5 white people no longer congregate with each other anymore in our current times?  Did racial minorities not exist in the past as you previously suggested?  You have no argument so far other than repeating that it's the currently the present.  This is a comic book forum, not a political action committee.  Stop pulling out rhetoric that sounds like it was lifted from a crappy 2008 Barack Obama speech.

QuoteI'm not the same person you argued with before, more than one person disagrees with you. Things are different now, the comics have evolved to be more reflective of our times.

Again "things are different now" and "reflective of our times."  You just can't stop doing this.  Do you have anything else?

QuoteIf Korea has a large percentage of minorities all over the country, then yes, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be represented but I'm not arguing about Korean shows.

Do you ever read anything you write?  Archie Comics already had minority characters represented.  Regardless, with your stand point, does that mean stuff that is made in the US and is only about minorities is incorrect?  Logically, that would be your stand point.  Like if a movie is made with a black cast, are they being incorrect for not including white people, Asians, Hispanics, etc.?

QuoteDiversity wasn't removed because we still have plenty of main characters like Archie, Betty and Jughead who are all white, in fact, the majority of the cast is white. It's not like the pussycats where the only white characters in the show and changing their race eliminated any representation of white people.

I don't think you're an Archie fan if you don't think Josie and the Pussycats is an important stand alone property.  Hell yeah, the diversity was removed from Josie and the Pussycats in this example.  And yeah, Josie and Melody being white was part of their characters, and they should have stayed how they were intended.  This damages their intellectual property for sure.

QuoteYou yourself are using buzzwords in your argument with "faux-liberals" and "SJWs" when you are asking me not to use them.

The difference is I can construct an argument without them based on logic that doesn't sound as utterly shallow and childish as yours and can be applied to any situation.  You only have your SJW terminology and talking points to fall back on.  Also there are plenty of minority fans that don't want this, yet you don't care what they think, because your white guilt "progressive" ideological political nonsense is more important to you.

QuoteThe change isn't that Black people arrived in the US at the time, the change is from the authors of Archie updating their comics to reflect the times when Black people were starting to get more equal rights.

Slavery ended in 1865.  The 15th amendment was passed in 1870.  Brown vs. the Board of Education happened in 1954.  The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964.  The Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.  None of this happened in 2016.  If the comics were okay having 5 white people from 1940's through 2016, it's okay now, and you are being ludicrous suggesting other wise.

QuoteKevin Keller is a popular character so they could easily bring him on the show and have people recognise who he is. No one knows much about the other minority characters that were introduced recently so those characters have practically no chance of playing a major role on the show, at most it would be a cameo.

Kevin Keller is not mainstream.  His comic got canceled for bad sales.  He doesn't have wide recognition among the general populace.  People on this forum know about the other minority characters, because they read the comics, unlike you have I guess.  So what's wrong with developing the existing minority characters instead of treating them like disposable garbage?

Quote from: old_jughead on April 05, 2016, 09:43:46 PM

Quote
Regardless, Archie Comics wasn't created today, and it certainly looks like if it was it would be total and utter garbage like this pilot is turning into.  If this pilot is what Archie would be if it was created today, it wouldn't be remembered tomorrow let alone 70 years from now.  If you liked the comics and characters, maybe you would actually have more of an issue with them being changed into something totally unrecognizable.

The point is Archie Comics has always been diverse right from the get-go and everyone was accepted for who they are. There were old people, young people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, beautiful people, nerds, jocks, freckled people etc. Then over the years they added more diversity like having black characters such as Chuck as the look of America started to change and now we have a gay person with Kevin Kellar. Diversity isn't new with Archie, it's just been updated to include more diversity in races to represent today. If the show was set in the 50s, that would be a different story, but it isn't.

I specifically asked that you make an argument without the buzzword diversity right above the part you quoted.  You didn't do it.  You just repeated yourself.

If I remember correctly and you're the same person who argued about this with me in the previous forum, I think you have some higher education, right?  Use some critical thinking skills and explain yourself without using words like diverse, diversity, POC, or saying "It's 2016," "things are different now," "it's not 1950 anymore," etc. like a politician.  If your argument is sound, it should be able to stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

Personally, I don't think it stands up to scrutiny.  What we're usually talking about with this kind of stuff is ideological white guilt.  I doubt SJWs would be crying about Korean soap operas and how they need more white people in them to create "diversity."  Heck, notice how you don't care that Josie and the Pussycats were made racially singular, because white characters were changed to black.  In that case, the diversity was literally removed.  Yet, you don't care.

Not that long ago, this kind of junk would be looked down at as pandering, which it totally is.  And in the context of race, that's usually indicative of some form of racism, either witingly or not.

But let's take a closer look at some of the things you just said though:

QuoteThe point is Archie Comics has always been diverse right from the get-go and everyone was accepted for who they are. There were old people, young people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, beautiful people, nerds, jocks, freckled people etc.

Those were all done for entertainment purposes to create character conflicts, comedy, etc.  They weren't put there to make faux-liberals feel warm and fuzzy about "diversity" like you are suggesting they were put there.

QuoteThen over the years they added more diversity like having black characters such as Chuck as the look of America started to change and now we have a gay person with Kevin Kellar. Diversity isn't new with Archie, it's just been updated to include more diversity in races to represent today. If the show was set in the 50s, that would be a different story, but it isn't.

Again, do you even read this stuff?  Black people have been in the US for hundreds of years.  It's not a new "change."  There were also other races in the US in 1950.  In fact, there were Hispanic characters in Archie Comics in the 70's.  So that brings me to my next point.  If minority characters already existed, then why does Archie Comics need to change the race of Veronica, Reggie, etc.?

And notice how they added Kevin Keller.  They didn't change other characters.  So why do they have to change those characters now?

Quote from: old_jughead on April 05, 2016, 09:26:57 PM

QuoteThe characters of Archie Comics are based on people Bob Montanta knew.  Why do the creators' input not matter to you? 

Because that was nearly a century ago and the look of a town back then is a lot different than what it is like today. I'm sure that if Archie was created today, it would represent a lot of diverse groups like the show is trying to do.

Can you express an argument without using virtue signalling buzz words like diversity and POC?

Regardless, Archie Comics wasn't created today, and it certainly looks like if it was it would be total and utter garbage like this pilot is turning into.  If this pilot is what Archie would be if it was created today, it wouldn't be remembered tomorrow let alone 70 years from now.  If you liked the comics and characters, maybe you would actually have more of an issue with them being changed into something totally unrecognizable.

QuoteUm, no. 21 is based on a real story so they should have kept the races the same. I don't know much about Last Airbender because I'm not a fan but from what I gather the characters weren't specified as Asians but just "Asian inspired" so the race change wasn't a big concern here. The bigger problem with casting non-white actors in these roles is that there is little opportunity for people of colour to work in the industry already so changing the races of these characters diminishes their chances even more.

The characters of Archie Comics are based on people Bob Montanta knew.  Why do the creators' input not matter to you? 

It's about Asian culture, they're Asian, they look Asian, they're presented as being Asian.  Also the term "people of color" doesn't refer to a good percentage of Asian people.  It's used by SJWs as a buzzword, but it can't be applied to every context.

Quote from: old_jughead on April 05, 2016, 08:07:18 PM

Quote
Is red hair and freckles not something intrinsically tied to a person's race?

Yes, that's why I don't have a problem with Archie's race being kept but more with how they changed his features and personality.

Read this reply of yours again please and see it make sense this time. So you're saying if they would have changed Archie's race, but kept the freckles and red hair, that wouldn't be idiotic like it obviously would be?   

QuoteThe ones who say they don't care about race are the ones most obsessed with it and thinking about it constantly.

QuoteBecause you are obsessed with race and all of your arguments have been about race so I'm responding to those complaints.

Ah, the great debate strartegy of the philosopher, Peewee Herman.  Umm, how about this, I wouldn't have said anything if Archie Comics and CW hadn't included these ridiculous race changes, which makes them look like pandering morons who don't care about Archie Comics at best and racists at worst?  How about that? 

Did you approve of all the race changes in the Last Airbender and 21 as well?  Since you don't think race matters right?  You must be totally consistent with that right?  If race doesn't matter, then it was okay to make all the Asian characters in the Last Airbender and 21 white people.  That's your position after all since race wasn't their defining trait as characters.

Quote from: old_jughead on April 05, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
Archie's red hair and freckles and his average looks are iconic to the character. Race change would be a problem if their race was what defined the character and made them special.

Do you ever read these opinions of yours through and think them out logically?  Is red hair and freckles not something intrinsically tied to a person's race?  I like though that race only doesn't matter to certain people, except when it does, which is always, or else these characters wouldn't have their races altered in the first place.  It's called cognitive dissonance.  The ones who say they don't care about race are the ones most obsessed with it and thinking about it constantly.

Quote from: kassandralove on April 05, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
LOL this is hilarious
Does he have a Twitter? We should all tweet him at the same time about this hahaha!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Twitter account I have was for something else and I don't use it anymore (I just read Milo Yiannopoulos's twitter feed which I have bookmarked  ), but someone else should do that surely.  XD