Quote from: invisifan on May 15, 2016, 01:00:51 PM
Sitcoms on TV are on a decline — the ones that make it aren't as mundane as Archie seems after 75 years ... and as for more general "teen" shows, "Glee" and "High School Musical" showed they can work, but also sucked the air out of the room as far as competition — they also showed it's far to easy to overdo it, or do it wrong, so no one wants to try.

@DCR — I'm saying it needs a consistent feel — throwing in actual magic stuff ruins the feel they are trying for, comedy wouldn't do that — there's already some in there, and it could be cranked up quite a bit and be enjoyable ... but it should be grounded in reality since that's the tone they've set; if you want a magic/fantasy/superhero series, start a new comic in another Archiverse like they have for ChAoS & AWA

I know Mark Waid had previous experience doing a few Archie stories way back when ("Moose!" and one or two others I've seen reprinted), but it's curious to me why ACP didn't just hire someone 'big name' that had a previous track record of putting a lot of humor/comedy into their scripts (at least, on some of their work... I've read a LOT of Waid's stuff, and never really picked up on much comedy in any of the series I've read by him). I'm thinking of somebody like Dan Slott over at Marvel (and of course, they're not going to get Dan Slott, but someone like him, and there are more than a few people like that working in mainstream comics). So I have to believe that wasn't any sort of primary consideration on ACP's part. Maybe if someone like Rex Lindsey was drawing Waid's scripts they'd at least come across as funnier.


I'm not too interested in a rom-com or whatever the current subgenre thing is now. I really only have the vaguest idea of what that really is. It's not a genre I've ever really followed.


"Sitcom" punctuated with a good dose of slapstick now and then is really what I want from an Archie comic. But that can be like in a TV series like Community, Parks and Recreation, 30 Rock, something like that. That and cute girls, but not just "good girl art" of the Adam Hughes type. I mean sexy/cartoony/cute/innocent type girls, like... maybe something like the Bruce Timm/Darwyn Cooke style.

Quote from: irishmoxie on May 15, 2016, 04:32:57 PM
The new Riverdale comic/Archie reboot reads like a YA novel with all the "teen" slang and angst. There are moments of comedy in there but it's mostly in the art, not the dialogue i.e. Archie setting ice cream on fire, Archie being flattened by a bulldozer.

The Riverdale TV show feels a lot like The OC (with the new Betty being Marissa) and a little of Dawson's Creek (with the whole dating your teacher thing).

"Angst" = Get me outta here. That is so last century for comic books. Exactly what I'm trying to escape FROM by coming to Archie Comics. If I wanted angst, there are a dozen different X-Men and Spider-Man comics to pick through.

Say whatever nice things you want to about Fiona Staples, but she's basically an illustrator, not a cartoonist. Invisifan talked about consistency, and those scenes just plain DO NOT work. They stand out like a sore thumb as not consistent with the tone of the rest of the story, and I just stare at them in disbelief that they're even trying to pass that off as comedy. They are really picking the wrong artists if they're expecting to toss those things into a script on rare occasions and think it's going to work. I haven't really studied Veronica Fish's art beyond just some brief surface scans, but if anything I find it less attractive than Staples' work. She might even turn out to be a better cartoonist than Fiona, but I just don't like the overall look of it. Possibly Derek Charm can pull something like that off. I hope so. Fingers crossed. His style is both attractive and cartoony enough.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 15, 2016, 05:34:51 PM
I know Mark Waid had previous experience doing a few Archie stories way back when ("Moose!" and one or two others I've seen reprinted), but it's curious to me why ACP didn't just hire someone 'big name' that had a previous track record of putting a lot of humor/comedy into their scripts (at least, on some of their work... I've read a LOT of Waid's stuff, and never really picked up on much comedy in any of the series I've read by him). I'm thinking of somebody like Dan Slott over at Marvel (and of course, they're not going to get Dan Slott, but someone like him, and there are more than a few people like that working in mainstream comics). So I have to believe that wasn't any sort of primary consideration on ACP's part. Maybe if someone like Rex Lindsey was drawing Waid's scripts they'd at least come across as funnier.

Waid was already doing the Fox for their Dark Circle line, so I guess it was an easy association — and as Dark Circle goes that's pretty light stuff ...

QuoteI'm not too interested in a rom-com or whatever the current subgenre thing is now. I really only have the vaguest idea of what that really is. It's not a genre I've ever really followed.

Romantic comedy — more of a movie genre really, not one that's normally sustained over a long term ...

Quote"Sitcom" punctuated with a good dose of slapstick now and then is really what I want from an Archie comic. But that can be like in a TV series like Community, Parks and Recreation, 30 Rock, something like that. That and cute girls, but not just "good girl art" of the Adam Hughes type. I mean sexy/cartoony/cute/innocent type girls, like... maybe something like the Bruce Timm/Darwyn Cooke style.

Is the Darwyn Cooke reference coincidental?  You know he died  literally yesterday ...

Quote from: invisifan on May 15, 2016, 06:02:48 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 15, 2016, 05:34:51 PM
I know Mark Waid had previous experience doing a few Archie stories way back when ("Moose!" and one or two others I've seen reprinted), but it's curious to me why ACP didn't just hire someone 'big name' that had a previous track record of putting a lot of humor/comedy into their scripts (at least, on some of their work... I've read a LOT of Waid's stuff, and never really picked up on much comedy in any of the series I've read by him). I'm thinking of somebody like Dan Slott over at Marvel (and of course, they're not going to get Dan Slott, but someone like him, and there are more than a few people like that working in mainstream comics). So I have to believe that wasn't any sort of primary consideration on ACP's part. Maybe if someone like Rex Lindsey was drawing Waid's scripts they'd at least come across as funnier.

Waid was already doing the Fox for their Dark Circle line, so I guess it was an easy association — and as Dark Circle goes that's pretty light stuff ...

QuoteI'm not too interested in a rom-com or whatever the current subgenre thing is now. I really only have the vaguest idea of what that really is. It's not a genre I've ever really followed.

Romantic comedy — more of a movie genre really, not one that's normally sustained over a long term ...

Quote"Sitcom" punctuated with a good dose of slapstick now and then is really what I want from an Archie comic. But that can be like in a TV series like Community, Parks and Recreation, 30 Rock, something like that. That and cute girls, but not just "good girl art" of the Adam Hughes type. I mean sexy/cartoony/cute/innocent type girls, like... maybe something like the Bruce Timm/Darwyn Cooke style.

Is the Darwyn Cooke reference coincidental?  You know he died  literally yesterday ...

I had not heard. He will be sorely missed. The comics industry needed more talents of his caliber. I would consider him one of the most serious cartoonists of this generation.


And I'd forgotten about Waid doing THE FOX momentarily. Now that I think about it that was funnier than the Archie reboot, but Waid's role in that was somewhat different. The Fox is really Dean Haspiel's brainchild (although Waid was a sounding board that he bounced his ideas off). Waid would then come in after Haspiel "wrote" the visual story, and add his dialogue and captions. So Haspiel is Kirby here, and Waid is Lee... In other words, the genesis of each issue did not begin with Waid sending Haspiel a script to draw from. Haspiel's written some of his own stuff in the past, so he's (at least) co-writer on THE FOX, although not the dialoguer.

Adam Hughes draws good girls? Had me fooled.

Quote from: DeCarlo RulesWell, terrence surprised me. Nobody really seems to mention anything about the comedy in any of their posts, and invisifan seems to be praising it for the qualities most diametrically opposed to that... grounded, reality-based, continuity-driven etc., all the things you'd associate with drama. He wants to keep the fantasy out of it, because that would seem to spoil any grounded, realistic, dramatic suspension of disbelief for him (and yet, he reads superhero comics, and they have the fantasy element, generally without comedy). I guess outright slapstick comedy would spoil the grounded realism as well. People seem to be liking it specifically for the drama/continuity, unless I'm completely misreading people's comments. I don't mind seeing a little bit of that thrown in here and there just for the sake of contrast and to break things up a little, but it's not what I read Archie Comics for. It was okay just for LIFE WITH ARCHIE, I guess, because the whole point of that was everything about it was different from the 'standard' Archie comic as possible. (Just like AFTERLIFE, the whole point is to contrast against the usual.)To be honest, I think LWA could have dialed back the angsty-ness a couple notches and thrown in a comedy bit or two now and then, just to remind people it actually was an Archie Comic. But then again, it wasn't a mainstream Archie comic book, or pretending to be one.

Yes i know but i still think that the liveaction archie should be a sitcom or a tween sitcom and be faithful to the element of the source material comedy.and i agree about life with archie the married life spinoff but i think it should remain as a dramatic spinoff with some little laughs.

Quote from: invisifanSitcoms on TV are on a decline — the ones that make it aren't as mundane as Archie seems after 75 years ... and as for more general "teen" shows, "Glee" and "High School Musical" showed they can work, but also sucked the air out of the room as far as competition — they also showed it's far to easy to overdo it, or do it wrong, so no one wants to try.

Actually sitcoms are still working heck look at the big bang theory for example even tween sitcoms.

Quote from: invisifan@DCR — I'm saying it needs a consistent feel — throwing in actual magic stuff ruins the feel they are trying for, comedy wouldn't do that — there's already some in there, and it could be cranked up quite a bit and be enjoyable ... but it should be grounded in reality since that's the tone they've set; if you want a magic/fantasy/superhero series, start a new comic in another Archiverse like they have for ChAoS & AWA

That is true since archie after the forties begin to go surreal. with magic/fantasy and superhero stuff

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules lSitcoms on TV are on a decline — the ones that make it aren't as mundane as Archie seems after 75 years ... and as for more general "teen" shows, "Glee" and "High School Musical" showed they can work, but also sucked the air out of the room as far as competition — they also showed it's far to easy to overdo it, or do it wrong, so no one wants to try. @DCR — I'm saying it needs a consistent feel — throwing in actual magic stuff ruins the feel they are trying for, comedy wouldn't do that — there's already some in there, and it could be cranked up quite a bit and be enjoyable ... but it should be grounded in reality since that's the tone they've set; if you want a magic/fantasy/superhero series, start a new comic in another Archiverse like they have for ChAoS & AWA

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules lI know Mark Waid had previous experience doing a few Archie stories way back when ("Moose!" and one or two others I've seen reprinted), but it's curious to me why ACP didn't just hire someone 'big name' that had a previous track record of putting a lot of humor/comedy into their scripts (at least, on some of their work... I've read a LOT of Waid's stuff, and never really picked up on much comedy in any of the series I've read by him). I'm thinking of somebody like Dan Slott over at Marvel (and of course, they're not going to get Dan Slott, but someone like him, and there are more than a few people like that working in mainstream comics). So I have to believe that wasn't any sort of primary consideration on ACP's part. Maybe if someone like Rex Lindsey was drawing Waid's scripts they'd at least come across as funnier. I'm not too interested in a rom-com or whatever the current subgenre thing is now. I really only have the vaguest idea of what that really is. It's not a genre I've ever really followed."Sitcom" punctuated with a good dose of slapstick now and then is really what I want from an Archie comic. But that can be like in a TV series like Community, Parks and Recreation, 30 Rock, something like that. That and cute girls, but not just "good girl art" of the Adam Hughes type. I mean sexy/cartoony/cute/innocent type girls, like... maybe something like the Bruce Timm/Darwyn Cooke style.

As i said before sitcoms are running and are still good but in different formats sometimes without laugh tracks and sometimes set in a real environment in a different setting rather than the traditional sitcom formats when we were young. and yes i think that romance will be included since it always happened in every archie comic  stories.

Quote from: irishmoxieThe new Riverdale comic/Archie reboot reads like a YA novel with all the "teen" slang and angst. There are moments of comedy in there but it's mostly in the art, not the dialogue i.e. Archie setting ice cream on fire, Archie being flattened by a bulldozer. The Riverdale TV show feels a lot like The OC (with the new Betty being Marissa) and a little of Dawson's Creek (with the whole dating your teacher thing).

Yeah i agree so i think the live action archie should be a comedy and be faithful to the comedic element of the source material with a little bit of drama like how scrubs did with special episodes about teenage problems or maybe at least be disney channel/nickelodeon tween sitcom.

Quote from: invisifanRomantic comedy — more of a movie genre really, not one that's normally sustained over a long term ...

Well i think that the romantic genre should be included since it's also the element of archie comics with the love triangle part even though it goes on repetitive all over the years and made it maximum with the 'harem' part

Quote from: invisifanIs the Darwyn Cooke reference coincidental?  You know he died  literally yesterday

Quote from: DeCarlo RulesI had not heard. He will be sorely missed. The comics industry needed more talents of his caliber. I would consider him one of the most serious cartoonists of this generation.And I'd forgotten about Waid doing THE FOX momentarily. Now that I think about it that was funnier than the Archie reboot, but Waid's role in that was somewhat different. The Fox is really Dean Haspiel's brainchild (although Waid was a sounding board that he bounced his ideas off). Waid would then come in after Haspiel "wrote" the visual story, and add his dialogue and captions. So Haspiel is Kirby here, and Waid is Lee... In other words, the genesis of each issue did not begin with Waid sending Haspiel a script to draw from. Haspiel's written some of his own stuff in the past, so he's (at least) co-writer on THE FOX, although not the dialoguer.

Yeah he will truly be missed    he maybe a great artist for dc comics known for his 50's style artwork but at least he did a variant cover  for the fox comic

Quote from: irishmoxie on May 15, 2016, 10:11:04 PM
Adam Hughes draws good girls? Had me fooled.

Everyone seems to initially misinterpret the expression "good girl art" when they encounter it, and sometimes that confusion persists for some time thereafter. It's an old comic book collector-originated term. What it is, is not "GOOD GIRL art", it's "good GIRL ART". Not artwork featuring girls who are good, but artwork which is good featuring girls. Whether the girls featured in the art are good or bad is immaterial, the only thing important is that the art is good and the subject of interest is the girls. Certain comic book artists like Adam Hughes develop a  reputation as 'good girl artists' because while any artist may have a reputation as a good artist overall within the fandom of comic books, particular artists like Hughes are in demand specifically in large part for their facility in drawing girls in particular. They are the good "girl artists".

Now that the ranks of comic book artists are beginning to swell with greater numbers of female comics artists, in decades to come there's bound to be further confusion of the term 'good girl art'. Take for example DC artist Amanda Connor. She's a good artist, and she's obviously a girl (well, a woman, but let's not split hairs, she's a female artist). She's also primarily known for her facility at drawing girls, and she draws them well.  Amanda Connor is both a good "artist girl", and a good "girl artist".

The term "good girl art" got further confused in the 1990s, with the proliferation of what became known as the "bad girl" subgenre of comics, in which -- exactly the opposite of  the term 'good girl art' -- it IS the girls who are being referred to as bad. But the art is often bad as well, so that really does compound the confusion. Amanda Connor is good artist, but she's also known for drawing the "bad girl" Harley Quinn -- and also the "good girl", Power Girl. So she's equally a good "bad girl" artist, and a good "good girl" artist. So much confusion.

Amanda's a pretty good cartoonist. I had mentioned to Dan Parent when I saw him at a convention last year that if ACP was seeking 'big name' contemporary comic book artists for its reboot, they should have attempted to draft Amanda Connor, and he replied "They tried."

From seeing the sneak peak of the trailer before it was taking down what really gets me down about this whole thing is when they are taking out the whole "innocence" of Riverdale. Archie comics and Riverdale is innocence and this show seems to be far from what the comics have established for so many decades.

Quote from: Mazz on May 21, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
From seeing the sneak peak of the trailer before it was taking down what really gets me down about this whole thing is when they are taking out the whole "innocence" of Riverdale. Archie comics and Riverdale is innocence and this show seems to be far from what the comics have established for so many decades.

I'm just going to chalk that up to your not having paid that close attention to the information trickling out about Riverdale up to this point. It's a pretty short hop between travesty and tragedy for fans of classic Archie Comics. Why would ACP allow it? They've abandoned any hope of fidelity to the spirit of the original comics. At this point they're just hoping to get some notoriety for generating shock waves. It's the old concept of "no such thing as BAD publicity".


"Archie Comics? Do they still make those??"

It's a sign of the times 
Everything everywhere (real world, TV, video games, comics, etc, etc)  is gore, violence, sex, drugs, darker, grittier, no morals.

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 21, 2016, 10:26:28 AM

Quote from: Mazz on May 21, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
From seeing the sneak peak of the trailer before it was taking down what really gets me down about this whole thing is when they are taking out the whole "innocence" of Riverdale. Archie comics and Riverdale is innocence and this show seems to be far from what the comics have established for so many decades.

I'm just going to chalk that up to your not having paid that close attention to the information trickling out about Riverdale up to this point. It's a pretty short hop between travesty and tragedy for fans of classic Archie Comics. Why would ACP allow it? They've abandoned any hope of fidelity to the spirit of the original comics. At this point they're just hoping to get some notoriety for generating shock waves. It's the old concept of "no such thing as BAD publicity".


"Archie Comics? Do they still make those??"

Oh No!!!! I have been paying attention to the craziness that has been going on the past few months with this show. This was just the last "laugh out loud" moment I got from the trailer.

Quote from: Mazz on May 21, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
From seeing the sneak peak of the trailer before it was taking down what really gets me down about this whole thing is when they are taking out the whole "innocence" of Riverdale. Archie comics and Riverdale is innocence and this show seems to be far from what the comics have established for so many decades.

Heck it was supposed to be the first archie live action series faithful to the source material not about deconstructing its reputation.

Quote from: DeCarlo RulesI'm just going to chalk that up to your not having paid that close attention to the information trickling out about Riverdale up to this point. It's a pretty short hop between travesty and tragedy for fans of classic Archie Comics. Why would ACP allow it? They've abandoned any hope of fidelity to the spirit of the original comics. At this point they're just hoping to get some notoriety for generating shock waves. It's the old concept of "no such thing as BAD publicity"."Archie Comics? Do they still make those??

Yeah i agree with you   


and you know what  i watched  the trailer from a site i wouldn't reveal to you though it's on ahem tumblr by the name "betty-and-jughead" and named as "ipikaboo-spoiler-from-cws-riverdale-trailer"

Anyway i watched the trailer and you know what i think i think that it's deserves to have mixed or negative reviews with low ratings like A&E damien and then it will someday be cancelled ,SO that archie comics will understand their mistakes and make a real teen sitcom faithful to the source materials element comedy which will be in the tone of boy meets world or make it as a Disney or Nickelodeon tween sitcom.I mean tv tried to make a live action archie sitcom in the 50s (or was it early 60's) and in the 70s (variety hour pilot ) So why make it as a drama that it loosely based on a source material it's stupid!