I found this online some time ago, and had to search high and low to find it again. So I preserved it here (in my media albums) for future enjoyment by Josie fans.
"Freely adapted" from Anthony Burgess' novel and the screenplay for Stanley Kubrick's film, by (author unknown) from Dan DeCarlo's artwork for JOSIE #36 (September, 1968).

Quote from: SAGG on May 20, 2016, 11:20:06 PM
...A comic book by DC Comics, just came out. I like the beginning so far. It's using the classic 1960's Hanna-Barbera superheroes, fused with Jonny Quest. Without giving too much of a spoiler, there's an origin of one of the heroes. I figured some of you, particularly DeCarlo Rules, would get a kick out of it, if you don't know already. Something really big is happening, and it's quite nasty, it seems....

Jeff Parker also wrote the Batman '66 series, and a rebooted (updated for present day) Flash Gordon for Dynamite (along with artist Evan Shaner, who draws Future Quest). Future Quest definitely has the same feel as the latter title.

I was surprised and delighted by the multi-page sequence in FQ (I just mentally pronounced that, and it doesn't sound right) illustrated by Steve Rude, whom I consider to be a modern day master of comic book art (and whose love for the HB adventure characters, Space Ghost in particular, is well known). I assume he won't be a regular contributor to the series, but it was nice to see him get something in there.

I'm wondering if this series will incorporate background information about Space Ghost that was part of the 2005 miniseries written by Joe Kelly and published by DC giving an origin for that character, which was DC's last attempt to do something with the HB heroes. I'm not sure I recognized the same "origin story" in this issue that you did. On a sad note, Tundro of the Herculoids DIED in the first issue.  Killing off characters (even if they are super-alien-animals) already?

I'm also quite curious to see the Wacky Races re-interpreted in the Mad Max/Death Race 2000 mode as Wacky Raceland. The Flintstones seems so much like the Archie reboot that it's a little bizarre. Not really digging the Scooby-Doo Apocalypse concept at all -- too Afterlife With Archie...?

Quote from: Thrillho on May 20, 2016, 10:21:16 PM
Even though Veronica can be irresponsible with money she has shown good business acumen. If she lost her fortune (though I don't see that happening) I could see her attach herself to Jughead and handle the business side of his burger chain. I can see Jughead being content to just take over Pop's but I can see Veronica pushing him to dream bigger.

Understand that I don't say Veronica couldn't take care of herself if left on her own without her inheritance. She has just enough business savvy and self-confidence to make a good and comfortable living, and would use her personal charisma to open doors for herself. She just doesn't have the kind of drive and empire building skills that her father has to amass fortunes.

Quote from: Chic Cooper on May 21, 2016, 01:50:39 AM
Well, we already have Mark Waid & Ryan North & soon Adam Hughes writing/drawing Archie comics so how would it be different from another company exactly? These are the people from the other companies.

Not all other companies are equal. I see vast differences in the publishing philosophies of Marvel & DC, Image and IDW and Dark Horse. Interestingly, DC is currently rebooting a bunch of Hanna-Barbera properties (Scooby-Doo Apocalypse, The Flintstones, Wacky Raceland) that seem to be informed by the same sensibilities as Archie's various retakes on its classic characters. I don't see IDW doing the same sort of Archie reboot that ACP is doing.

Quote from: daren on May 20, 2016, 10:47:14 PM
It would be obvious just from the play he's the antagonist/hambone because no one puts on a public play starring himself talking about how great he is starring also his real life girlfriends. Seriously Reggie is my favorite character and he gets dumped on a lot but I know this isn't the kind of play that should make your mother beam with pride, no matter how much I like it.

IF it is indeed obvious, AND if Reggie is indeed trying to pull the wool over his mother's eyes -- WHY is she there at the play? Why doesn't Reggie try to hide the fact that he's performing it from her, unless he's secretly wanting to get caught showing his true nature in front of his mom? Isn't he even the slightest bit worried that he's 'showing his true colors' in front of her? If Reggie knew she was going to be in Riverdale to attend the play, he could easily have avoided her being able to attend by arranging some diversionary subterfuge to prevent her attending. Failing that, he doesn't even show the slightest bit of uneasiness over the fact that he knows his mom in in the audience watching.

But there IS no conflict -- he's NOT trying to hide anything from her, and she finds it acceptable because she finds nothing wrong with him. Her opinion of him is too strongly positive for this to penetrate as a revelation about him. Therefore, there is another explanation (satire? inside joke?) for what's going on in the play that she isn't even going to try to figure out, because accepting the notion that her son is a delusional egomanic is NOT a possible or acceptable explanation for her. She automatically dismisses this seeming bit of information about her son's ego that conflicts with her prior mental image of him.

People act differently when they're in different environments and in different social situations. It's not that hard to accept that Reggie Mantle is a completely different person when he's around his mother than he is when he's around his teenage peers.

In focusing on Mrs. Mantle, you're ignoring the greater mystery of absurd logic about this story, which is:

What could possibly convince Betty (especially Betty) and Veronica -- whose personalities we have MUCH more information on than the enigmatic Mrs. Mantle -- to participate in this self-serving farce of ego aggrandizement?

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
And I never suggested otherwise.  Just saying I'm keeping an open mind.

Here's the thing, spazaru. You have already made ONE fundamental choice that puts the two of us in very dissimilar positions. You made the choice (which I do not criticize -- you have your own reasons, for which I don't pretend to judge the validity) to read ONLY Archie Comics. That more or less puts you in position where it's ACP or nothing. So for you, ACP is merely competing against ACP... the ACP of the past versus the one of the present. That limits you to three options: (1) You can buy the new products they offer, or (2) decide not to buy them, or (3) spend your money on some old ACP back issues. I guess maybe a fourth would be to buy Archie Comics reprints offered by other publishers like IDW and Dark Horse. But that's the entire playing field for you, your entire list of options. It simplifies your choice of what to do with your disposable income as a consumer of comic books.

I have all those options, plus the vast array of options to buy products from other publishers products that have nothing to do with Archie. With every choice, I need to reevaluate what I'm getting the most entertainment value from. To the extent that there is a void in a certain type of product like classic style teen humor comics, other publishers will try to fill that need to some extent - already we see a small bit of that with products from Sitcomics, AstroComix, and Pixie Trix. Publishers of classic Archie reprints like IDW and Dark Horse can be included in that group. That's a small list of products to siphon off my disposable income, but it doesn't include decades worth of back issues of actual Archie Comics that were published that I could be spending my money on instead of the current product ACP offers.

All of those together are merely a tiny fraction of the much larger number of current consumer products for comic books. I have to judge every $4 I could potentially spend on an issue of Archie, Jughead, Betty and Veronica, Afterlife With Archie, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, any of the Dark Circle titles or any of the Archie Action titles against every other product being offered by every other publisher. Since there is a finite limit to my time and money, only the comics that I judge to be the most entertaining return on my comic dollar will make the cut. The list of comics I'm buying needs to be constantly reassessed, culled and weeded, so that only the things I enjoy most remain. There's no room in there for comics that fall in the categories of "Well, since it's the only thing they're offering, I guess it's better than nothing" or "I guess it's not completely terrible; it still has some good points". The comic book marketplace is extremely competitive, so it forces me to be close-minded to things that I'm not enjoying unreservedly. The nature of titles that come and go constantly, and changing content and creative teams will never allow any stability, so to the extent that things are new, I allow some leeway for a "trial run", but I can't allow that for everything. I can't read everything published by every publisher for 6 issues before giving it the thumbs-down and the heave-ho from my reading list, and I can't even do that for ONE publisher like ACP. They're fractional in the spectrum of available choices in reading material that's out there. That's why I gave up on the rebooted ARCHIE after only 2 issues - I could already see that it wasn't doing anything for me. I've been reading comics long enough that I can articulate exactly what I enjoy, and have a finely honed personal aesthetic sense for what I like and what I don't, and WHY. My sensibilities are eclectic and and diverse, but also narrowly defined by that same aesthetic. I like BATMAN, but ONLY certain types of Batman. I like ARCHIE, but ONLY certain types of Archie. Same goes for Superman and Spider-Man, horror comics, war comics, western comics, alternative comix, and every other character and genre right on down the line. If you're ONLY picking and choosing comics from ACP (present and past), you've already closed your mind to those other competing publishers, characters and genres and narrowed your list of possible choices down to a very limited number. That's just comic books. Movies and TV shows are subject by me to even harsher standards because the time or money spent on them is competing with the limited time and money I have to devote to comics as well. Even more so than comics, there's where I need to make gut decisions based on what I read or hear about them, before I even see them.

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 05:18:36 PM
I get that and am inclined to agree.  WE would rather see that.  Archie Comics is trying to survive as a business.  The way we liked it wasn't working.  I wish it was.  I could have gone on forever that way, but in a way I also can accept change.

It is not my job to insure the survival of Archie Comics. It is their job as a publisher to deliver a product that I can be excited about and love, and in exchange I shower them with the manna of my consumer dollars, by which they receive their sustenance. If they are not servicing me with the type of product I want, I don't owe them anything. Every single individual consumer has that choice to make on his or her own. I don't have to fall into any lines or get with any programs. I have the freedom of choice to reject what is offered if it's not agreeable to me, with no strings attached. If they continue to fail to service me as an individual, then we will have to further grow apart and will eventually come to a parting of the ways. For Archie Comics' sake for their own survival, I hope they guess right, but on the other hand, maybe Archie Comics' survival as a publisher is not in MY own best interests. Maybe it would be better if ACP died the real death that eventually happens to most comic book publishers, because it's been proven time and again that characters can outlast publishers. Maybe I improve my chances as a consumer if IDW or some other publisher picks up the ball. That's up to ACP. Depending on what decisions they decide to commit to, I will react favorably or negatively. What I will NOT do is mollycoddle them like a venerated but enfeebled grandparent.


So there seems to be a fundamental disconnect here between us. I am not here to service Archie Comics, they are here to service me. It is the same deal for EACH individual consumer, so each gets to make that choice. We don't have go along with the will of the majority for the good of the publisher.

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 06:10:42 AM
If it was Marvel or DC, I still might, but not if they started incorporating Archie with their own characters, i.e. Archie vs Spider Man

Mark Waid pushed for a Batman '66/Archie team-up, but it's hard for me to imagine how that would work. I'm not feeling the vibe between those two.


On the other hand, I would KILL to read a Spidey Meets Archie comic book. As long as it wasn't the current versions of either of those characters, and instead was the 1965 version, with Peter Parker still at Midtown High or just having recently graduated. And if they could get John Romita Sr. to draw it, I think I'd feel like I'd died and gone to heaven. Betty Cooper and Veronica Lodge meet Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson. They're kind of exactly the same, but from different universes. Peter Parker has more in common with Archie Andrews than Peter would be comfortable admitting, either. Yet they're also complete opposites in most ways.


Wow, I hadn't even thought about it, but what if the Diabolical Duo, Reggie Mantle and Flash Thompson got together to switch partners and prank each other's victims? What if Mad Doctor Doom & Chester got together with Victor Von Doom & Kraven the Hunter? Oh, this could be a classic!

Quote from: Chic Cooper on May 20, 2016, 04:50:22 PM
Love the Afterlife Josie cover & all 3 Jughead covers. I think Ryan North's "Unbeatable Squirrel Girl" is great & I'm looking forward to his run on Juggy.

So how do you feel about Erica Henderson leaving, then. In a non-ironic sense I mean.

Quote from: irishmoxie on May 20, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
Definitely Salem but more so the one from the TV show.

DeCarlo Rules will probably say Della.

Fooled ya! 


I will admit that Della has a magnetizing effect on me... I am both strongly attracted (by her physical appearance) and repulsed (by her overbearing authoritarian personality) in equal measure. She is pretty much the perfect dominatrix, though. I know that's what you were thinking... 


Salem I like a lot. But it's really the one from the Holly G series (again, with the Holly G stuff already!)

Aunt Zelda. Specifically the Zelda of SABRINA THE TEENAGE WITCH (2000, 3rd series) #38-57. Holly G's Zelda. She was a pistol. 


Or if you were thinking only of the pre-1990s classic Sabrina stories, then Cousin Ambrose, who was actually more like a kindly bachelor uncle to Sabrina.

Quote from: spazaru on May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 20, 2016, 03:40:34 PM

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!!

JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.

I get why people are unhappy, but what would you have them do in the face of massively declining sales?  It remains to be seen if any of this will work (I'm skeptical), but "evolve or die" is basically the way things are now.

"Survival of the fittest" doesn't happen by evolving overnight. The way it's supposed to happen is that a long long long series of small changes over time gradually accumulates, resulting in a distant descendant who doesn't resemble its ancient ancestor, but who nevertheless adapted incrementally to their changing environment over time. When there is a drastic change in a single generation of offspring that don't resemble their parents at all, we call them "mutants". In this case, we really don't know if these Mutant Archies are "fittest" to survive, they're too new to tell whether they're well-adapted for survival. One thing's sure... they are different, that much is readily apparent.


For a comic book company, commerce is the only thing that's important. The continued ability to sell is the only survival trait. You can try to equate the situation to one of a Dylan Thomas-esque "Do not go gentle into that good night -- Rage, rage, against the dying of the light." But for those who are devoted to the essence or intangible qualities of the classic Archie stories, the characters do not live on in name alone. We would rather see a death with dignity, to die as one lived, preserving the once-appreciated qualities that are now rejected by a heartless universe. We would rather remember the Archie Comics we knew and loved than see it replaced by some pretender.

Quote from: 60sBettyandReggie on May 20, 2016, 01:06:35 PM
Why do they have to taint something that has been funny, and cute and wholesome for 75 years? Seriously leave it alone!!

JULY 2007 - "A Dynamic NEW LOOK!" debuts with BETTY AND VERONICA DOUBLE DIGEST #151 - "Bad Boy Trouble!"
SEPT 2010 - "The Married Life" sci-fi soap opera angst debuts in LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1
SEPT 2013 - "Escape From Riverdale" as the Zombie Apocalypse hits in AFTERLIFE WITH ARCHIE #1
JULY 2016 - "It's Not Your Father's (or Mother's, either) Archie" as the reset button gets hit in ARCHIE (2015) #1, replacing ARCHIE (1943) #666, the final issue.
JAN 2017 - "Twisted Archie Art Players" bend the classic characters like pretzels in RIVERDALE (the TV series).


Four giant steps AWAY from Classic Archie. Each bigger than the last. To spare your sensibilities any further, in between those "milestones of progress" I've omitted the depressing string of cancelled classic Archie titles. I only point this out to say that the ship of ACP left the safe harbor years ago and is now in the middle of the ocean, far from the shores of Archieland. Enjoy the final years of the digest reprints while they're still around.

Quote from: daren on May 20, 2016, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 19, 2016, 04:28:40 PM

Quote from: daren on May 19, 2016, 04:01:13 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on May 19, 2016, 06:55:02 AM

Quote from: daren on May 17, 2016, 04:05:32 PM
Right there, she has the personality to be the problem parent if Mark Waid wants Reggie to have one.

Problem parent? She's his mother -- of course she thinks the world of him. Let's just say she's got a less than objective picture of the real Reggie Mantle. It's a good bet he doesn't pull any of that underhanded crap on her and act like a conceited braggart around her.  All she's seeing here is Reggie as a talented writer/actor/director, something she can be proud of.

None of the other parents would react that way if their kid put on a play like that, come on.

None of them are star athletes with a roomful of trophies, either. All right, so he's got he snowed. She doesn't REALLY know her son. Not a crime. Yeah, maybe if she'd been reading the comics along with the rest of us, she'd know better. I have to assume she doesn't know Betty and Veronica from a hole in the wall. When have you ever seen the whole gang hanging out at Reggie's house?

She must at least know Veronica, she's in a well known family, she often calls Reggie's house and in some stories they've talked and a few times you see a picture of her in Reggie's room. Anyway I was talking about the fact that Reggie's play is a big ego trip that insults another student (even if I love it), no matter what she doesn't know about Reggie already the play wouldnt get that reaction from a normal parent. I know this is applying real life analysis to a silly cartoon plot but that's what the reboots/tv show etc. are doing so going with them Mrs. Mantle would be a better choice for problem parent than her husband since we already know he's a nice guy. I'm not saying they SHOULD make her that but they seem like they want to give Reggie some kind of troubled home life. If they do I'd probably like her more if they developed her that way, the problem characters are always my favorite.

Quote from: Thrillho on May 19, 2016, 05:32:09 PM
Well Reggie does have neglectful parents

I think these pages support my idea that Mrs. Mantle would be a better problem parent, if anyone is being neglectful of Reggie here it's her. Mr. Mantle is there for him (he's not sitting down to dinner with him but how many parents do that with their teens) like he is in most stories, we see much less of Reggie with his mother.

Well, look at what you're showing right there. Mrs. Mantle is away traveling on business. That gives you the impression that she's likely the parent that isn't home a lot, and is not as involved in Reggie's day to day life. She knows he's the RHS athletic star, and that he sometimes dates Veronica. Maybe she knows he's dated Betty a few times, too. What does she know about Archie? Probably not much, beyond what Reggie might have told her. There's every possibility that she dotes on him, because to all ostensible appearances she should be a proud parent. He's likely on the fast track to an athletic scholorship. Because she's often away traveling on business, she has less opportunities to be critical of him, and probably values their time together even more. He probably gets good enough grades not to give his parents grief, and his detentions must be kept to the level that they don't cause a lot of parent-teacher meetings.

For all we know Reggie might behave like a perfect gentleman around her, and isn't even really trying to "pull the wool over her eyes". So all she really knows is she's been invited to the school to see a play that her son wrote, directed, and stars in. She hasn't even seen the play yet and she's already proud of him for that. Is she going there as a drama critic, thinking "Well, we'll just see if it's any good!" No, she's just thrilled that it's another laurel wreath to add to his achievements along with his many sports trophies. You think she's sitting there, trying to find cracks in his suspect facade? Trying to figure out what the play's about, or what it means? Is it a satire, or some kind or ironic humor? "Who knows with kids these days?" Of course not, she can't see any of that, because she has no reason to look for his motives, or to want to believe anything bad about him.

Try to imagine reading that story as if it were the first Archie story you'd ever read, like you'd never even heard of Archie, and knew nothing (or next to nothing) about any of the characters, except for a couple of select pieces of info about Reggie - he's a good-looking kid, and he's Riverdale's star athlete, with a roomful of trophies; he dates Veronica once in a while, and has maybe dated Betty a couple of times as well. Then read it again, and tell me what prior information you need to bring with you to reading the story that makes interpreting that play "obvious". And then realize that you don't want to believe anything bad about Reggie going into it.

Veronica's role is pretty much par for the course whenever Betty writes her little fictional fantasies. If it's a fairy tale, who always gets cast as the evil Queen? If it's another path through the Yellow Wood branching off the end of Memory Lane, then it's "poor Veronica, she didn't do so well". Deep down, Betty believes that "Instant karma's gonna get you, gonna knock you right in the head", so those with a sense of entitlement like Veronica and Reggie get brought low to teach them humility. On the other hand, if some twist of fate were to reduce Veronica to working for a living, there's no real evidence that she could make a fortune starting from scratch. We're not even entirely sure that Hiram Lodge didn't start out with certain benefits and advantages to get the snowball of his vast fortune rolling.

There are certain notable parallels here to the later Archie Loves Betty: The Married Life. Archie and Betty are married with three children, and Betty's a schoolteacher (but not at Riverdale High). Jughead owns a restaurant chain. Moose is well off (a little more so than he was as Mayor of Riverdale) and a respected pillar of the community.