For years I'd been wondering where/when this plot wrinkle originated, and I recently discovered it all began in JUGHEAD (1st series) #283 (Dec. 1978). The Grand Comics Database offered the following information about that issue:

QuoteThis issue introduces one of the most unusual continuing storylines in Archie comics history: an unseen, mysterious force finally makes Jughead attracted to girls, and gives him a new, supernatural pin on his hat. The storyline was strung through stories in "Jughead," "Archie" and "Betty and Veronica" around this time. After reader reaction was not positive, the story was dropped without explanation. However, Jughead's attraction to girls, as well as his magic pin, were briefly brought back in 1982 during another attempt to make Jughead more of a ladies' man.

The stories in this issue also try out a new design for Jughead, more conventionally handsome and with a square jawline. It was dropped along with the storyline.

I'd love to read all of the stories involved in this experimental phase of Jughead's evolution. Does anyone have a complete list of the various stories that touched on this plot device, and where they first appeared?

You can arrange to categorize comics (or manga) by sub-genres however you like -- it tells you nothing about the relative popularity of the sub-genre described, so it really tells you absolutely nothing about actual sales.

What I'm suggesting here is that IF, theoretically, Betty & Veronica ARE in actuality, ACP's most popular and best-selling characters, ACP is shooting themselves in the foot by choosing to market trade collections under the ARCHIE logo, rather than the BETTY & VERONICA logo. If it is indeed true, then their own marketing practices are hampering the sales potential of trade collections that feature reprints of BETTY & VERONICA stories by labeling those collections as "ARCHIE". I don't see what you fail to understand about this -- if B&V are the main attractions, then products marketed under the name B&V should sell better than those that aren't. So if it's true, then ACP is failing to take advantage by selling more trade collections marketed with the B&V logo.

And I don't believe that for a minute. If the ARCHIE logo appears on the cover far more often, it's not because it's the company's name, it's because books marketed with the ARCHIE logo sell better than those that aren't.

None of the above explains what is obvious on the face of things... that the title logo ARCHIE (not BETTY & VERONICA) by far dominates the number of trade collections (in GIANT or 1000-PAGE, or any other formats) that ACP releases. Which makes absolutely no sense if ACP's major seller is B&V, as opposed to ARCHIE. If B&V are the top attraction for consumers, shouldn't the number of trade collections with BETTY AND VERONICA in the title far outnumber those with ARCHIE in the title? Yet it's exactly the opposite. What other conclusion is there to draw?

And why are there four Archie digests (Archie Jumbo Comics, World of Archie Jumbo Comics, Archie Milestones, Archie Showcase) to B&V's two (B&V Jumbo Comics, World of B&V Jumbo Comics)?

I mean, they could easily repackage/recycle the same stories from B&V Jumbo Comics and World of B&V Jumbo Comics in 1000-PAGE and GIANT formats, yet there's never been a single one yet. I'll leave you to count all those ARCHIE 1000-PAGE and GIANT COMICS releases on your own.

Quote from: Jabroniville on November 27, 2022, 03:13:57 AMI think Jughead's lack of appeal to modern readers is more linked to Archie's current fanbase, of which a huge portion is female. They typically went over that audience above all others... this means that Betty & Veronica typically does the best, and then Archie (the flagship) does the rest. Jughead kind of loses out among the Big Four, as he ends up with the most male-centric book (since Archie's book also involves Betty & Veronica inherently).

But there hasn't been a regular B&V title (unless you count those quarterly one-shots that are 75% reprint) since 2015 when their classic ongoing title ended. Only two miniseries, VIXENS and the Adam Hughes one, while ARCHIE had an ongoing title that ran for 47 issues, plus a number of miniseries. JUGHEAD's ongoing title at least managed 16 issues -- while what would presumably have been the start of an ongoing "New Riverdale" series (Adam Hughes') for B&V managed a mere 3 issues (released over a span of one-and-a-half years!)

Have you not kept track of what titles ACP has released as trade paperbacks? True enough that JUGHEAD comes in dead last of the Big Three with a bare few, but B&V trail, far, far, far behind the numerous trade collections released for ARCHIE.

That should debunk the theory that B&V is still ACP's biggest cash cow. It hasn't been for at least 10-15 years now.

Quote from: beatman10 on January 31, 2023, 10:05:20 PMI'm curious to know if Mr. Uslan had written more chapters of"Life With Archie" but they got shelved when he opted out and Mr. Kupperberg took over.

I'm sure if Uslan had actually written more chapters that he'd have been paid for those scripts, and ACP would have used them. I'm more curious why the series didn't just start out with Kupperberg as the writer. As in, did Uslan have some disagreement with editor Gorelick that caused a parting of ways, or was it always the intention that Uslan "lay the foundation stone" for the series by writing #1 (and ONLY #1) and then move on to other projects?

NOT kidding~~!!

Hey, that sounded like a great idea! Maybe they should have let beatman10 write "The Married Life"...

Maybe you should send ACP a proposal synopsis for a LIFE WITH JUGHEAD series. Hey, if they did a LIFE WITH KEVIN, it can't be so far-fetched an idea.

Well that was ONE writer's idea of Midge's character, anyway...

It's still wide open, and I'm sure some writers would be aghast at anything other than "Moose & Midge 4-EVA"...

Hell, it would have been interesting if she'd wound up with Reggie after all! Anything's possible really.

I remember it. It wasn't one of those concepts that did anything for me personally, sort of like Archie's R/C Racers. Just another fad ACP tried to cash in on (I guess CSI had big ratings then).

Quote from: beatman10 on December 14, 2022, 09:22:59 PM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on December 09, 2022, 09:17:34 AMI only started reading LIFE WITH ARCHIE with the last two comic book sized issues (#36 and 37) in 2014. Not that I hadn't been casually reading some ARCHIE and BETTY & VERONICA issues before that, along with SABRINA (the pre-manga version).

But "The Death of Archie" touched off a frenzy in me to start hoarding everything Archie. I looked back over the past five or six years of ACP's publishing history and suddenly realized the company had been steadily cancelling one long-running title after another, and thought to myself... "OMG! It's really happening! The Death of Archie isn't just some 'what if' story, it's a metaphor for what's actually happening to this long-running line of classic comic books." That's when I realized that the Archie characters had become an endangered species.

Thus began a mad scramble for me to find every recent back issue comic book from "Archie Marries..." (ARCHIE #600, Oct. 2009) onwards, and all the ACP trade paperback collections then in print.

A little less than a year later they published ARCHIE #666, the last issue of the classic ongoing series that had been running since 1943... then five months later, the last issue of the long-running BETTY & VERONICA, #278.

After that I was forced to rely on the digests (and trade paperback collections) for my Archie stories, plus the occasional one-shot floppy comic book. Occasionally I'd find old stacks of back issues but (apart from JOSIE and SABRINA) I was really only interested in the more recent ones (since the late 1980s re-numbering). I wasn't having any of that "New ARCHIE" nonsense.

So when I did finally get around to reading the full story from LIFE WITH ARCHIE, it was in the form of the six-volume ARCHIE: THE MARRIED LIFE trade paperbacks. Even in that form it was confusing to try to remember everything that was going on, as the chapters alternated back and forth between "Archie Marries Betty" and "Archie Marries Veronica". A few years ago I read it all again, but the second time around I went through all six books, first reading just the "Archie Marries Betty" chapters, and then all the "Archie Marries Veronica" chapters. It was somewhat easier to keep things straight in my mind the second time.

I believe most readers of these stories felt the same way, that it was less confusing reading each storyline"one at a time" rather than alternately. But there were some very similar storylines in both universes that had very small changes that caused those stories to have different outcomes. And these were more obvious in the early issues. Mr. Lodge was trying to buy the Chock'lit Shop in both, but for slightly different reasons, In AMV, he was intent on making Riverdale a metropolis, using Archie and Veronica to force Pop to sell. But in AMB, it was more about Mr. Lodge trying to ruin Archie and his friends for rejecting his bribe to leave Betty and marry Veronica.
      Another storyline that was very similar was Midge finding the stimulus loan application to help Jughead buy the Chock'lit Shop in both universes. But only in AMB is there a line in the application about the SBA favoring married applicants, which prompted Midge to propose to Jughead. I know there are more similar storylines such as Moe Miller meeting Jughead and after eating his burgers decides to make Jug a franchise mogul.

That actually makes sense if you think about it. If the major change between the two universes is whether Archie married Betty or Veronica, it's those three who are going to be affected by that decision the most, and the other cast members only more peripherally.

If different circumstances don't dictate that the other characters behave differently, then it's not surprising that they'd behave in a common way in both universes. Some of their circumstances can change in random ways in the different universes, but they wouldn't ALL change, and where they didn't the character would react mostly the same way.

As far as I'm concerned, every single time (and boy, were there lots of them) that Mr. Lodge and/or Smithers gave Archie the old heave-ho out the front door of the Lodge mansion, he was perfectly justified. Good for him!

I only started reading LIFE WITH ARCHIE with the last two comic book sized issues (#36 and 37) in 2014. Not that I hadn't been casually reading some ARCHIE and BETTY & VERONICA issues before that, along with SABRINA (the pre-manga version).

But "The Death of Archie" touched off a frenzy in me to start hoarding everything Archie. I looked back over the past five or six years of ACP's publishing history and suddenly realized the company had been steadily cancelling one long-running title after another, and thought to myself... "OMG! It's really happening! The Death of Archie isn't just some 'what if' story, it's a metaphor for what's actually happening to this long-running line of classic comic books." That's when I realized that the Archie characters had become an endangered species.

Thus began a mad scramble for me to find every recent back issue comic book from "Archie Marries..." (ARCHIE #600, Oct. 2009) onwards, and all the ACP trade paperback collections then in print.

A little less than a year later they published ARCHIE #666, the last issue of the classic ongoing series that had been running since 1943... then five months later, the last issue of the long-running BETTY & VERONICA, #278.

After that I was forced to rely on the digests (and trade paperback collections) for my Archie stories, plus the occasional one-shot floppy comic book. Occasionally I'd find old stacks of back issues but (apart from JOSIE and SABRINA) I was really only interested in the more recent ones (since the late 1980s re-numbering). I wasn't having any of that "New ARCHIE" nonsense.

So when I did finally get around to reading the full story from LIFE WITH ARCHIE, it was in the form of the six-volume ARCHIE: THE MARRIED LIFE trade paperbacks. Even in that form it was confusing to try to remember everything that was going on, as the chapters alternated back and forth between "Archie Marries Betty" and "Archie Marries Veronica". A few years ago I read it all again, but the second time around I went through all six books, first reading just the "Archie Marries Betty" chapters, and then all the "Archie Marries Veronica" chapters. It was somewhat easier to keep things straight in my mind the second time.

Quote from: beatman10 on November 28, 2022, 09:59:13 PMFrom what I've read, most readers didn't like seeing Mr. Lodge as a villain.

It's a violation of Mr. Lodge's basic character. Sure, there are plenty of stories where he doesn't like Archie and tries to thwart him. And there are stories where sometimes there is an adversarial relationship between Lodge and "the gang" in general because of a generation gap thing -- but in pretty much ALL of those stories, Mr. Lodge comes around in the end. In most classic Archie stories, Mr. Lodge is not an bad man at all... he's shown to be a good man, despite the fact that he's rich. There are many instances where the gang points out an issue which Lodge helps resolve through his philanthropy.

Quote from: Jabroniville on November 26, 2022, 01:40:43 AM

Quote from: DeCarlo Rules on November 07, 2019, 12:21:29 AMSeems like it's ignoring everything after LIFE WITH ARCHIE #1 (i.e., all of "The Married Life" stories written by Paul Kupperberg). I like the art (well, except for Dan's decision that an older Archie should have a huge jaw in order to distinguish him from teenage Archie), but it's still too soon for me to pass final judgment on it as a story. I plan to re-read the whole thing in one sitting sometime after the last issue is released (or I might just wait for the TP), and maybe I'll have a clearer feeling about it by then. Clearly it's not a sequel to the run of LIFE WITH ARCHIE as written by Kupperberg, though. Having re-read the whole prior Married Life story fairly recently, both the strengths and flaws inherent in that series became a lot more obvious to me. After reading the whole thing again, I revised my initial opinion downward in terms of plot and story continuity, but felt like where it stood out was in terms of character interaction scenes and dialogue (only possible where you have a lot of pages for that kind of stuff).

That said, the story doesn't have anywhere near the same room to breath as the original LIFE WITH ARCHIE magazine, and the plot is necessarily compacted to fit into six standard-sized floppy comic issues -- which amounts to the same as only THREE magazine-sized issues of The Married Life, so it's hardly fair to compare one to the other as a complete series, either. Then again, I can recall the same sort of complaints about the final B&V story arc by Uslan and Parent. Either one is still miles better than what we're getting in the current ongoing ARCHIE title and miniseries like SABRINA.

I'm curious what you think the flaws were. Apologies if the re-read is now too long ago for you to remember XD.

I found that it had definitely gone off the rails at some point (I believe during a writer switch) and sometimes the two universes weren't different enough to really justify having both stories. It was neat seeing Little Ambrose and others return, though .

The only writer switch in THE MARRIED LIFE (or LIFE WITH ARCHIE magazine, if you prefer) was at the very beginning, where issue #1 is the setup written by Mike Uslan -- and immediately after that, it's Paul Kupperberg for the follow-up through the rest of the series.

The major flaw is a lack of any general plan or direction (until looming cancellation forces one upon Kupperberg; i.e. "The Death of Archie"). The pendulum swings wide with Mr. Lodge initially as the seeming villain, and then (as things take a distinct turn towards more of a harder SF theme) seemingly Dilton Doiley... but then Kupperberg backs away on the SF angle (perhaps due to reader reaction?) shortly after launching a meandering plotline featuring Veronica's lost plane crossing into the Bettyverse. Sure the various twists kept readers on tenterhooks from issue to issue of the magazine, but read as a whole there's no real plot structure overall. Various characters' threads get lost in the miasma in the latter half.

ARCHIE: THE MARRIED LIFE 10th ANNIVERSARY has Mike Uslan back in the driver's seat again, but this time it's "10 Years Later" after the original "ARCHIE MARRIES..." (ARCHIE #600-606), and while incorporating some of Uslan's ideas from LIFE WITH ARCHIE Magazine #1, goes off on completely different tangents than Kupperberg's story did.

While the preponderance of clues do indicate the AMB timeline, it does make me wonder if they were completely consistent about that or if they messed up by putting something in there that could only have indicated the AMV timeline.